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[DoubleClutch]

The lowest common denominator holding something back has done truth to it. Such as the Series S parity hurting Xbox.

You look at the average controller, four face buttons, d-pad, two analogs that also click, two menu buttons, and four shoulder buttons/triggers. The new Switch doesn’t even have analog triggers…

I think this really limits control schemes and possibilities. It’s also why controllers with back buttons are more popular nowadays, but it’s largely a missed opportunity because it really just entails mapping a face button to it. Doesn’t evolve the gameplay very much other than making competitive FPS easier.

You look at something like a Steam Deck, and the amount of inputs it has opens up so many possibilities. But we haven’t seen any real innovation on this front, probably because games are designed for consoles as a baseline.

If anything, controllers have regressed overall. The PS2 had analog buttons. Press triangle to crouch, press it harder to prone… Look at how simplistic an Xbox Controller is in comparison. The DS4/5 have the trackpad but it’s been little more than a secondary dpad for selecting items.

I presume these controller designs are why we see games limiting the amount of abilities one can equip.

A good example of this is Ready or Not. It’s easier to play with a KB/M than a controller because it requires you to use many more actions/items. Yes, you could have a control wheel with a controller, but those are usually awful.

 

[Deerock71]

I mean...until we get THIS...

 

[Mr Moose]

8BitDo Ultimate 2 has 6 shoulder buttons and 2 back buttons. Not sure if I will ever use 2 of the shoulder buttons, but they are there if I need to.

 

[DoubleClutch]

8BitDo Ultimate 2 has 6 shoulder buttons and 2 back buttons. Not sure if I will ever use 2 of the shoulder buttons, but they are there if I need to.

Right, because games are designed around xinput after all.

 

[Liopleurodon]

There is only so much you can do with 10 fingers.

 

[Illiterate Actual]

The modern controller is very much jack-of-all-trades style. If you don't think controllers limit games, just look at the god-awful Destiny 2 UI.

Unfortunately, there is little economic incentive to do something other than design for the standard gamepad.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Try playing Doom Eternal on a keyboard and on a controller and youll have your answer.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I hear the new Switch 2 doesn't have analog triggers. Thats seems kind of sucky.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I hear the new Switch 2 doesn't have analog triggers. Thats seems kind of sucky.

Well we have Nintendrones arguing why analog triggers are useless. Such as real drivers’ throttles are on/off switches.

 

[Deerock71]

I hear the new Switch 2 doesn't have analog triggers. Thats seems kind of sucky.

But it does have 2 meeces!

 

[Guardian Monkey]

There is only so much you can do with 10 fingers.

Don’t forget your two thumbs

 

[ReBurn]

Keyboards have dozens of buttons in addition to controller support and you don't really see much innovation in PC gaming as it relates to controls. The number of available buttons on controllers isn't the issue. All that's going to bring is more complexity.

 

[Liopleurodon]

Don’t forget your two thumbs

Oh, yeah...

I forgot.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Keyboards have dozens of buttons in addition to controller support and you don't really see much innovation in PC gaming as it relates to controls. The number of available buttons on controllers isn't the issue. All that's going to bring is more complexity.

No?

Games that are PC only are way deeper than anything on console. RTS for instance is a genre that can never have the same completely with a controller.

Then you add flight sticks, wheels, special mice…

 

[San Dan Glokta]

No they're not. Besides playing strategy games and RTSs that make using a controller a test of patience controllers are absolutely fine as they are. Even the touch pad and adaptive triggers dualsense are gimmicks most of the times. The pressing down forcefully thing on the ps2 was also an annoying fad and got actually painful to use after a small amount of time. If you're wanting more buttons for competitive play then by all means use m/kb or buy one of the aforementioned controllers.

The people that always say that there are way too few inputs fail to realize that controllers are made for relaxed gaming in mind; laying on the couch or on your side while playing. The multiple button problem easily fixed when games use an overlay button combo that brings in new inputs when you're playing (not sure how to word this but I'll explain)

Normally: Face buttons will do their regular actions
Hold RT/R2: Set #1 of new actions on face buttons
Hold LT/L2: Set #2 of new actions on face buttons
Hold R2+L2: Set #3 of new actions.

If we simple add one more map like this on a different combo we affectively have the same number of buttons as a keyboard now. Most developers don't do this because seldom there are games that need this many inputs, and pause-wheels are also a thing.. The closest thing I tried that required many inputs was Stellaris on console.

A good example of this is Ready or Not. It’s easier to play with a KB/M than a controller because it requires you to use many more actions/items. Yes, you could have a control wheel with a controller, but those are usually awful.

Thats subjective. I love playing with controllers over mkb and most of the time they're completely adequate.

 

[Kasane89]

Theres only so much you can do with you fingers. your thumb already is super busy with 4 face buttons/dpad and stick on both sides. it already sucks when theres lets say dodging on B but you gotta adjust the camera at the same time with RS. Which is why paddles are really useful. But if paddles already had actions mapped to them by default, accessibility would go down quite a bit.

Though i wouldnt be super against increasing the amount of face buttons to 6 like in the good old days. one thing im tired of in every single hack n slash game in existence you alternate between light attack and strong attack for the finish (usually mapped to X and Y). Its getting so old and is creatively bankrupt to the max. It would maybe be fun if you had enough buttons so you have something like lightpunch, heavypunch, lightkick and heavykick on individual buttons like in Fighting games now also in character action games.

 

[adamsapple]

I mean...until we get THIS...

Is that Drake?

 

[Deerock71]

Is that Drake?

It sure looks like him.

 

[Digital-Aftertaste]

Advancements in BCI and high fidelity haptic gloves for VR are the only things will provide significant design changes for games to be played much differently than they are now.

 

[The Lunch Legend]

Is that Drake?

Travis Kelsey

 

[Superkewl]

I'm the opposite, I want to go back to Sega Genesis controllers. I avoid a lot of games now like fighting games, sports games because I got old man reflexes now and cant handle complex controls. Used to love them back in the day.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

Check out the Input Labs Alpakka controller some time. It's gyro focused with 2 gyroscopes, a capacitive pad under the face buttons, one thumbstick replaced by a mouse wheel and a weird 8 way switch, and is pretty much designed to be 3d printed DIY. Pretty different from other stuff on the market.



Personally I'd prefer a more xbox-style chassis, with a capacitive right thumbstick (like the Japanese only Steam controller) instead of the switch + pad under the buttons. Also give it 4 back buttons. And professional manufacturing of course. Then it would be perfect IMO.


Something cool I'd like to see in the future is Sony using their excellent eye tracking tech from the PSVR 2 and making a small tv mounted camera or lightweight pair of glasses to allow for visual aiming.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Back buttons that work as modifiers would be pretty sweet. As a whole? Nah. Obviously this would be game specific more akin to Strategy games, MMOs, or the like, but we really do have the sweet spot for input options that add a lot to gameplay without making things too convoluted and system heavy.

 

[MayauMiao]

Blaming controller is a cheap excuse to hide the inferiority of game design.

 

[bender]

The issue is designing games to be played everywhere and by everyone.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

Back buttons that work as modifiers would be pretty sweet. As a whole? Nah. Obviously this would be game specific more akin to Strategy games, MMOs, or the like, but we really do have the sweet spot for input options that add a lot to gameplay without making things too convoluted and system heavy.

You can set that up no problem using Action Sets with Steam Input, as long as you have independent back buttons.

FF14's controller scheme does something similar natively, except using shoulder buttons.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

 

[lughnasadh123]

You can set that up no problem using Action Sets with Steam Input, as long as you have independent back buttons.

FF14's controller scheme does something similar natively, except using shoulder buttons.

Yep, really got to give them credit for making FFXIV work great on controller.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

I'm waiting for at least one back button on each handle to become standard. There are so many context-sensitive actions and modifier buttons in use with today's control schemes.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Nintendo still innovating with (dual) mouse control soon to added to traditional sticks and buttons plus motion control in a split controller design. Sony included a touchpad for whatever that is worth. I don't recall any changes with the XSX controller.

Nintendo also doing camera controls ala Kinect this gen with a peripheral. New for them I think.

Analog triggers are not there for a reason I surmise. Probably because people want something they could click more rapidly for most games instead.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

Nintendo still innovating with (dual) mouse control soon to added to traditional sticks and buttons plus motion control in a split controller design. Sony included a touchpad for whatever that is worth. I don't recall any changes with the XSX controller.

Nintendo also doing camera controls ala Kinect this gen with a peripheral. New for them I think.

Analog triggers are not there for a reason I surmise. Probably because people want something they could click more rapidly for most games instead.

Have they said the camera will be used for control in any way? I thought it was literally just a webcam.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Have they said the camera will be used for control in any way? I thought it was literally just a webcam.

yeah they demo'd it in the Direct. with MPJ dlc. showed people punched blocks above their head with their fist.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

yeah they demo'd it in the Direct. with MPJ dlc. showed people punched blocks above their head with their fist.

Ah you know what, I did see that. Since they were all holding joy cons I figured the camera part was just for show. But I think you're right, the goomba stacking game, at least, seems to be controlled through camera motion tracking.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Ah you know what, I did see that. Since they were all holding joy cons I figured the camera part was just for show. But I think you're right, the goomba stacking game, at least, seems to be controlled through camera motion tracking.

might have further demo'd in the treehouse.

from Nintendo's website: "Plus, it can capture player movements to enable full-body motion controls in selected minigames!"

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

might have further demo'd in the treehouse.

from Nintendo's website: "Plus, it can capture player movements to enable full-body motion controls in selected minigames!"

The fact that they basically crammed a Kinect into something the size of a golf ball, and let it do full body tracking on 4 people simultaneously, for 50 bucks, is actually super impressive.

Technology moves fast.

 

[semiconscious]

There is only so much you can do with 10 fingers.

'are current human designs limiting games?'...

 

[Kabelly]

Try playing Doom Eternal on a keyboard and on a controller and youll have your answer.

I will always mention gyro aim when I see posts like this. 15 years later and people still want to say it's a gimmick.

I'm playing it on PC with a dualsense with gyro activated in Steam Input. On the second hardest difficulty (because it's my first time and I like to have an enjoyable experience)

Gyro is the missing link in game design for controllers but people do not want to adapt. It's literally 3D joystick. It bridges that gap.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I will always mention gyro aim when I see posts like this. 15 years later and people still want to say it's a gimmick.

I'm playing it on PC with a dualsense with gyro activated in Steam Input. On the second hardest difficulty (because it's my first time and I like to have an enjoyable experience)

Gyro is the missing link in game design for controllers but people do not want to adapt. It's literally 3D joystick. It bridges that gap.

Is that Flick Stick?

 

[Moochi]

Yep, really got to give them credit for making FFXIV work great on controller.

It works, but it's a huge pain to set up. It works once you memorize the double tapping to change skill set bars, but only someone with Stockholm syndrome would call it good game design. Playing Viper or any complicated class and going through rotations is a huge pain. The next FF mmo needs a completely different design from the ground up.

 

[Kabelly]

Is that Flick Stick?

Not neccesarily but it is in relation to gyro. I typically play my games with the gyro on and the right stick as a standard controller stick. Flick stick makes it that the right stick flicks immeditely to the direction you point it at which is pretty beneficial, but it takes getting used to.

Fortnite has it natively. Been playing that a lot recently. So many games just feel better to aim with it on and I never use aim assist.

From single player to multiplayer gyro has elevated my controller experience. It's literally why I built a PC because console devs (mostly on the Sony side) continue to ignore it even though the tech is there. Luckily some big names have it now. I know COD does, but COD suffers from crazy aim assist that people love to abuse.