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[BluRayHiDef]

Does anyone think that OLED TVs are overrated? I understand that they have an infinite contrast ratio due to each of their pixels producing their own light and therefore being able to appear as a particular color or being able to completely shut off independently of neighboring pixels. I also understand that they have the best response times, maintain their contrast ratio and brightness levels at all viewing angles, and have very thin panels due to their lack of backlights and other components.

However, they have two major drawbacks, one of which nullifies all of their advantages: they're prone to burn-in and they don't get nearly as bright as LED LCD TVs.

I'm aware that the latest OLEDs have pixel-refresh mechanisms that minimize the possibility of burn-in to a significant degree; however, despite how effective these mechanisms are, they're not perfect and therefore the risk of burn-in still exists. Having said this, burn-in is not a drawback that would deter me from getting an OLED TV if there were not the second drawback: the low brightness levels.

OLED is an acronym for Organic Light Emitting Diode, which means that an OLED TV's sources of light are organic and therefore degrade much faster than the LEDs of LCD TVs, typically due to wear and tear and exposure to ambient oxygen and moisture. To maximize their lifespan, the maximum level of brightness at which they're programmed to operate is only a fraction of their natural maximum; this enables them to last for about ten years.

However, this maximum level of brightness is only 800 nits or so; for example, the LG CX, which is the most premium OLED TV released by LG this year, has a peak brightness of 813 nits, which it can reach when displaying a highlight that comprises 10% of its screen space. On the other hand, TCL's flagship TV of 2019, the Q825, can attain a brightness level of a whopping 1,822 nits when displaying a highlight that comprises 10% of its screen space; however, it can get even brighter when displaying a highlight that comprises 25% of its screen space, reaching 1,884 nits.

My current TV, which is a TCL 55R617 - an LED LCD TV, is a budget TV and can attain a peak brightness of 1,009 nits when displaying a highlight that comprises 10% of its screen space. Furthermore, it can attain an even higher level when displaying a highlight that comprises 25% of its screen space: 1,173 nits. Due to being a budget TV, it cost me only $707.65 (including tax and shipping) when I bought it from Amazon back in June of 2018. On the other hand, the LG CX costs $1,600 on Amazon before tax and shipping costs are calculated.

Considering the low maximum levels of brightness that OLED TVs possess, do you think that they're overrated? The true black level, which they can produce, is incredible; however, they're conversely low maximum levels of brightness render them unsuitable for use during daytime, when ambient light is shining through uncovered windows or even only through the spaces of window blinds.

I reckon that the increasing miniaturization of LEDs will render OLED obsolete within the next five years or less; micro LEDs will be able to produce levels of brighness that are even higher than 1,844 nits while being small enough to independently turn off and therefore produce true black for very small shadows, the space between celestial bodies in outer space, and black objects.

 

[-Arcadia-]

I hate OLEDs just for having to read 'Dat OLED' on gaming side for five years.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I hate OLEDs just for having to read 'Dat OLED' on gaming side for five years.

I'm not aware of this.

 

[Skyr]

Dat OLED tho. Makes even Craig look great on it.

 

[bender]

Burn in sucks (Thanks Rocket League), but going from a OLED to a Sony LED was a little jarring. Local Dimming takes some time to get used to.

I just want a 4K Kuro.

 

[Jack Peterson]

I agree. Instead of buying OLED I'd rather just wait for the newer technologies to mature like MicroLED, perfect black levels with none of the drawbacks like lower brightness/burn in etc..

 

[Skyr]

I agree. Instead of buying OLED I'd rather just wait for the newer technologies to mature like MicroLED, perfect black levels with none of the drawbacks like lower brightness/burn in etc..

 

[Mister Wolf]

Not at all. Its legit the best looking TV i've ever owned.

 

[Paulxo87]

It's the best there is. HOWEVER you can get a Higher end LED with 90% of the picture for half the price.. ESPECIALLY at the much larger sizes. The prices of the 75" OLEDS in comparison to the 65" models is just a crime.

If that extra 5-10% picture quality which the lay person would never notice is worth it to you for the greatly added cost... go ahead

 

[AV]

However, they have two major drawbacks, one of which nullifies all of their advantages: they're prone to burn-in and they don't get nearly as bright as LED LCD TVs.

The burn-in risk seems to have gotten better with newer models, and was always an issue that affected a minority anyway. I'm on year 4 of mine, nothing to speak of. As for brightness, if an OLED at high brightness isn't enough for you, there's something wrong with your eyes.

They're not overrated, they're just an expensive luxury for those that can afford the best. They're worth every penny, if you can spare those pennies. They're absolutely not necessary to enjoy movies or games, they just have that extra "wow" factor.

 

[-Arcadia-]

I'm not aware of this.

Issa joke. Vita owners basically non-stop spammed 'Dat OLED' on gaming side to where I now have PTSD, lol.

 

[decisions]

Honestly, being a generation behind on TVs is great. I think OLEDs are obviously an improvement overall but the price difference is not worth it to me.

I just upgraded from a 720p 32in to a 50in 4K HDR (LG UN7000) for $310 and I am blown away trying a bunch of new HDR and 4K games. So once OLED is cheap I will upgrade to that and be amazed again. I think this is a good strat when a technology upgrade is noticeable but not game changing. Like I right now when I go to a Best Buy I can certainly see what OLED brings to the table, but it is not enough of an upgrade for me to feel unfulfilled by playing on this new TV. So, for $310 I am blown away playing GoT, SOTR, and Horizon. so OLED doesn't seem worth it to me right now.

To get an OLED I would be starting at what, $1500? The difference is nowhere near worth it.

 

[bender]

Issa joke. Vita owners basically non-stop spammed 'Dat OLED' on gaming side to where I now have PTSD, lol.

Dat mura effect.

 

[Skyr]

It's the best there is. HOWEVER you can get a Higher end LED with 90% of the picture for half the price.. ESPECIALLY at the much larger sizes. The prices of the 75" OLEDS in comparison to the 65" models is just a crime.

If that extra 5-10% picture quality which the lay person would never notice is worth it to you for the greatly added cost... go ahead

Picture quality per se is subjective idd but perfect black levels are crucial for me and lots of people.

If I see grey where there is supposed to be black my peepee goes limp.

 

[Goro Majima]

I think I'm getting older because I can tell the difference between OLED and an LED in the store but it's not super dramatic.

These threads are fun because I always wonder how long until someone says "but my Pioneer Kuro Plasma..."

 

[bender]

I think I'm getting older because I can tell the difference between OLED and an LED in the store but it's not super dramatic.

These threads are fun because I always wonder how long until someone says "but my Pioneer Kuro Plasma..."

It just depends on your lived experience. I had a Kuro for 11 years before going to a 2017 OLED. I then switched to a Sony LED. You'll definitely notice the back light bleeding when you are used to black levels from the other two. After about six months, my expectations have adjusted and it doesn't bother me anymore.

I already mentioned Kuro, you coward.

 

[ape2man]

Bought a OLED 55c9PLA last year. Yes, its not as bright as lcd tv's from samsung but it makes up for it by a mile for the pure contrast ratio and image quality.

 

[MrS]

Probably but they're still nice. Sometimes I look at the C9 and it blows me away. Altered Carbon looks incredible on it.

Ultimately, everything is overrated.

 

[Setzer]

I have the C9. At first I didn't think it was that much better than Sony LED I had but after tweaking the settings and watching 4k movies and shows on it for about 2 months now I can honestly say it is every bit as good as an LED. Sure it can't get as bright as an LED but HDR still looks fantastic on it thanks to its infinite contrast.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't own an OLED right now if I didn't get a good deal on an open box one from Best Buy. Got the 65" C9 + 5yr Geek Squad warranty for around $1500. So I'm not even gonna bother babying the TV. No way was I going to pay full price and not have the warranty to cover burn-in.

 

[Rikkori]

Yes & no. OLEDs are absolutely excellent at what they excel at, namely darker scenes (with the caveat around black crush & near-black handling, depending on model & source content), but they have very obvious downsides which a lot of people minimise or ignore, and this includes "professional reviewers" as well (even though they're more auxiliary marketing than anything else).

Here's something I'll say in defense of OLED brightness though (as much as it pains me to have to):

1. Brightness doesn't scale linearly. Meaning that for a TV to be doubly as bright as a 100 nits TV, you need NOT 200 nits but rather over 1000 nits. I don't have the exact source but there's plenty of research on this subject (unrelated to TVs). See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens's_power_law

When Nits Are Not Enough: Quantifying Brightness in Wide Gamut Displays

As the industry transitions to wide color gamuts, such as Rec.2020, continuing to use nit counts to compare display brightness levels is inadequate at best, misleading at worst.

www.linkedin.com

2. Size matters.
"Getting more precise, other factors, such as TV screen size also affects the Nits/Lumens relationship. For example, a 65-inch TV that puts out 500 nits will have approximately four times the lumens output of a 32-inch TV putting out 500 nits.
Taking that variation into account, when comparing nits, screen size, and lumens, the formula used should be Lumens = Nits x Screen Area x Pi (3.1416). The screen area is determined by multiplying screen width and height stated in square meters.
Using the 500 nit 65-inch TV which as 1.167 square meter screen area, the lumens equivalent would be 1,833. "

Light Output in TVs vs Video Projectors

When shopping for a TV or video projector, two terms that you may be hit with are Nits and Lumens. Find out they mean and how they affect your viewing.

www.lifewire.com

3. Light control. It's much easier to control light and make best use of an OLED while it's much harder to find an LCD that will be able to pump out enough light in order to match its advantages in a brighter room. In other words, it's simply easier to get the best out of an OLED than it is an LCD. You can absolutely still close the contrast gap (perceptual) between OLED vs LCD with the use of bias lighting and enjoy a brighter TV but it still won't reach the OLED level due to per-pixel dimming.

Ambient contrast ratio of LCDs and OLED displays

We systematically analyze the ambient contrast ratio (ACR) of liquid crystal displays (LCDs) and organic light-emitting diode (OLED) displays for smartphones, TVs, and public displays. The influencing factors such as display brightness, ambient light illuminance, and surface reflection are...

www.osapublishing.org

I'm honestly trying to keep it brief but as you can see this is actually a much more complicated topic than random shills make it out to be. And I haven't even gone into motion, glass chocies, etc. In short, OLEDs are certainly overrated in various respects and a lot of the differences are exaggerated, but on the other hand its advantages are indisputable also. For the money I think having a 55" OLED is an easy thing to argue for, but I would caution against believing in giant picture quality differences compared to good LCDs and I still wouldn't recommend it if it's your primary display and you use it a lot, because burn-in is a guarantee before the end of the TV's useful life.

Now, if TCL wasn't a trash company and had their 8-series miniLED not been such a flaming pile of dung, we wouldn't even need to have this conversation. A miniLED TV with a decent algorithm would make OLEDs essentially obsolete. Alas, it remains a dream for now but we might still see something good in the next 2-3 years. For now I remain skeptical because the TV industry has a tendency to disappoint.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I play on an LG 4K upstairs but every once in awhile I'll put the Pro on the 4k LG OLED downstairs and holy shit the difference is HUGE

 

[Paulxo87]

Picture quality per se is subjective idd but perfect black levels are crucial for me and lots of people.

If I see grey where there is supposed to be black my peepee goes limp.

The black levels on the high end LED's is 95% there. You'd be surprised. But over all yes the oleds are pitch perfect

 

[TaySan]

Nah, my LG C9 is damn near the perfect TV for movies and games.

 

[Goro Majima]

It just depends on your lived experience. I had a Kuro for 11 years before going to a 2017 OLED. I then switched to a Sony LED. You'll definitely notice the back light bleeding when you are used to black levels from the other two. After about six months, my expectations have adjusted and it doesn't bother me anymore.

I already mentioned Kuro, you coward.

Damn you’re right

I was scanning for the words “Pioneer” and “Plasma”

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Nope. Also the two drawbacks you mentioned aren't that big. Burn-in is not a problem on newer TVs (2019+) and the lower brightness is only a problem in bright rooms.

 

[Come On Tars]

For my viewing, the new led tvs are amazing. I have a lot of natural light and need the biggest and brightest you can get for not a ridiculous price. If it were a small dark room oled is goody but yeah. Inorganic will nullify it in a couple years

 

[Cunth]

Every tv looks the same to me. Not even joking

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

Every tv looks the same to me. Not even joking

That’s cause your eyes are covered In creaming soda

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

No bullshit, it’s the most dramatic difference I’ve ever noticed from one TV to another. I have two and I’m waiting for the price to come down on the 48” and then I’ll get that one as well.

 

[Shambala]

Nah once you go oled yo can’t go back. I bought 1 now I have 3

 

[Spokker]

I have two TVs. First I had a Vizio P Series, which I really like. It has local dimming and looks really good for an LED and has a low input lag HDMI port for gaming. Screen uniformity leaves something to be desired though.

But I never knew what deep, rich color really meant until I got an LG B7. I actually love to watch animation on it the most as it's so vibrant.

There is a downside for games. The way it handles motion for 30 fps games can be jarring and give people headaches. It took some time to get used to it.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Now, if TCL wasn't a trash company and had their 8-series miniLED not been such a flaming pile of dung, we wouldn't even need to have this conversation. A miniLED TV with a decent algorithm would make OLEDs essentially obsolete. Alas, it remains a dream for now but we might still see something good in the next 2-3 years. For now I remain skeptical because the TV industry has a tendency to disappoint.

TCL isn't a trash company. Their miniLED TVs are new technology and they need time to iron out the kinks; according to Vincent Teoh, the algorithm employed by their Q825 is modeled by Samsung's philosophy of minimizing blooming by crushing highlights that are near very dark or true black shadows, spaces, and objects. The problem is the challenge posed by blooming, not TCL. However, their new Vidrian MiniLED technology, which will be in their 8 Series of 2020, will tackle this issue by employing over 4000 dimming zones on their 65" and over 5000 dimming zones on their 75"!

 

[Amory]

What's oled like a flat screen?

I got a big screen Magnavox back in 97 (had to convince the wife lemme tell ya that wasn't easy!) and when the guys come over to watch the game they always say it's like seeing it in real life

 

[Blond]

Yes and no

But honestly IMO once you start hitting the thousand dollar mark the cheapest OLEDs are 55 inches and can be found for 1200/1300 like high end LED TV's and at that point I'm just going to get the superior picture quality, which is always going to be OLED.

Under<1000, have your choice in the smorgasbord board of LED televisions

Over >1000, you'd be foolish to purchase anything but OLED, it's how I ended up with my 55 C9 for 1200 and the B9/B8 were at Walmart for under 1,000 earlier this year as well

Burn in sucks (Thanks Rocket League), but going from a OLED to a Sony LED was a little jarring. Local Dimming takes some time to get used to.

I just want a 4K Kuro.

Was it an LG? They're extremely generous with their burn in replacements you should hit them up. My friend PC games on his B9 and I can tell you he's put thousands of hours into that thing and even watches streams and it's immaculate. That being said, I've had burn in happen on LED tvs so if it happens here it's not like I'm in a position to really blame the technology when the one that's apparently immune has done it to me as well.

 

[EverythingsOverrated]

Ultimately, everything is overrated.

You rang?

 

[bender]

Yes and no

But honestly IMO once you start hitting the thousand dollar mark the cheapest OLEDs are 55 inches and can be found for 1200/1300 like high end LED TV's and at that point I'm just going to get the superior picture quality, which is always going to be OLED.

Under<1000, have your choice in the smorgasbord board of LED televisions

Over >1000, you'd be foolish to purchase anything but OLED, it's how I ended up with my 55 C9 for 1200 and the B9/B8 were at Walmart for under 1,000 earlier this year as well





Was it an LG? They're extremely generous with their burn in replacements you should hit them up. My friend PC games on his B9 and I can tell you he's put thousands of hours into that thing and even watches streams and it's immaculate. That being said, I've had burn in happen on LED tvs so if it happens here it's not like I'm in a position to really blame the technology when the one that's apparently immune has done it to me as well.

2017 E9. No luck with support. I also had issues with the panel uniformity issues (off-color square in the middle) of the screen.

I really hate my Sony set right now. The wireless on the set causes major issues with my PS4 (go figure), often finds itself out of sync with my soundbar and also has an annoying habit of not detecting the systems hooked up to until a restart. Streaming movies from my iPad is nice though.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Hell no. If anything they're underrated.

I've been playing thousands of hours of games and netflix etc on my LG B7 and there's not even a hint of burn in. I also don't have my TV outside, so I don't need it to go to insane brightness levels like I do for a phone. I have never gone "ugh this needs to be brighter". HDR videos have bright enough whites to make you have to squint.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I think they look amazing.
I am on an ass old LED TV myself, but my next TV will be definitely an OLED.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Yeah i wanted an OLED but decided not to get one because of burn in. I leave my tv on and game on it way too much to worry about it.

 

[llien]

65" W7 OLED owner here, I know it's below 1000nit, but that thing easily dishes out enough for my eyes to feel hurt.
In monitor setting, I'd say anything beyond 500nit is crazy. (kinda offtopic, but heck, where are reasonably priced OLED monitors? And the BS about resolution being problematic: look at OLED screens for phones)

From my POV, OLED does show some weakness at near-black levels.

Oh, and one more thing: would not consider a phone or tablet that is not OLED.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

I'm beginning to regret not getting one. My Bravia is bright as fuck and has some damn fine picture, but the further you move away from its narrow viewing angle the screen becomes washed out & grey as shit.

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

I still wouldn't recommend it if it's your primary display and you use it a lot, because burn-in is a guarantee before the end of the TV's useful life.

Nope. Also the two drawbacks you mentioned aren't that big. Burn-in is not a problem on newer TVs (2019+)

Well, which one is it?

 

[Zato]

Burn in mitigation is massively improved is almost not a concern, rtings have been running content onLG OLED tv continually for months / over a year with no burn in.

As for the peak brightness, the vastly better contrast ratio helps to mitigate the difference and it’s why they are consistently rated the highest for HDR viewing.

Also FALD is still nowhere near OLED for true blacks and halo artifacts are extremely jarring .

 

[Rikkori]

TCL isn't a trash company. Their miniLED TVs are new technology and they need time to iron out the kinks;

I'm talking about results, not promises. And Vincent has little credibility especially when it comes to TCL considering they fly him around. In fact, his coverage was absolutely pathetic for the 8-series and only once everyone showed how bad the TV really was did he start talking about how awful it really was. I have very little trust in him but he still has some useful info from time to time.

Well, which one is it?

It's both. There's a lot of caveats to burn-in based on usage & settings. If we look at the RTINGS tests, the CNN TVs show burn it on magenta showing clearly at 20 weeks (for max brightness) or 30 weeks (200 nits brightness). Now obviously if you don't watch the same thing over & over, the rate at which you hit the pixels in the same way will vary wildly based on content, so the 20 weeks (or 2800 hours) is the worst case scenario. If we look at the other footage, you can see they all pretty much give up around 100 weeks, with the exception of COD WW2 which is the least stressful test you'd ever do, so you that's at 14000 hours or so. So let's say that you can expect to be mostly burn-in free for between 3000 and 14000 hours.

Now the reason I say it's going to burn-in before the useful life of the product is because, think about it, will the OLED PQ suddenly be so bad it's unusable or you wouldn't want to watch it 5-10 years from now? Ofc not, just look at CRT & Plasma still kicking ass today. 14000 hours at 8hrs a day is less than 5 years. And since it would still have great PQ even if you were to upgrade then, you could still have used it in another room or given it away to a friend/relative to use, but with burn-in pretty much guaranteed by that point, you can't.

So that's why I say think about OLEDs in a much more disposable luxury kinda way.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I'm talking about results, not promises. And Vincent has little credibility especially when it comes to TCL considering they fly him around. In fact, his coverage was absolutely pathetic for the 8-series and only once everyone showed how bad the TV really was did he start talking about how awful it really was. I have very little trust in him but he still has some useful info from time to time.

You're being unreasonable. As I said, Mini LEDs are new technology; 2019's 8 Series is the first series of TVs to incorporate it, so it was unreasonable to have expected it to be perfect from the get go. Furthermore, I've read that the problem has been improved via a firmware update. Finally, you have to consider the prices of TCLs TVs; they're considerably cheaper than correspondingly classed sets from other brands, so a few caveats shouldn't be held against them. TCL offers great value for relatively cheap prices. Just consider this year's 6 Series: it will have the Mini LED technology of 2019's 8 Series for the prices of the previous years' 6 Series; that's an incredible value.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Burn in mitigation is massively improved is almost not a concern, rtings have been running content onLG OLED tv continually for months / over a year with no burn in.

As for the peak brightness, the vastly better contrast ratio helps to mitigate the difference and it’s why they are consistently rated the highest for HDR viewing.

Also FALD is still nowhere near OLED for true blacks and halo artifacts are extremely jarring .

As long as you're in a dark room, inky blacks covered by glare don't really help show off the strength of OLED and QLED becomes the better option.

 

[Zato]

As long as you're in a dark room, inky blacks covered by glare don't really help show off the strength of OLED and QLED becomes the better option.

Certainly agree that ambient light levels can have an impact but I believe there are far too many compromises with QLED than OLED, OLED has far more in its favour.

Dont get me wrong a top end QLED is still a great TV, I agonised between the QLED and OLED for months before buying but the OLED wins with format support, features, contrast, true blacks, no FALD artifacts etc

 

[EliTheIceMan]

Yes totally nailed it

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Yes totally nailed it

I don't intend to wait for long. I intend to get either a TV from this year's 6 Series or 8 Series by TCL; if the 8 Series doesn't have a 55" model, then I'll settle for the 8 Series.

 

[V2Tommy]

Tier list:

-OLED
-Pioneer plasma
-Panasonic plasma
-
-
-
-
-everything you're talking about buying.