Are we far enough in to compare console tech without waring?

The fight won't begin until the previous gen systems get left behind. At this rate, I wonder if there'll be new hardware on the shelves before PS4/X1 are dropped.

Consoles used to be all about exploiting weird timings in chips and quirks of bespoke hardware. Now, everything has to run on everything else using pre written tools and engines. The only systems that get pushed to their limit are Nintendo ones now, and tbh, watching Link's Awakening limp along at sub 30fps makes me wonder what's better.
 
Well according to Digital Foundry' deep analysis there is a 0.000016% in pixel discrepancy between the XBSX and PS5 this generation in favour of XBSX, this can be clearly seen under a microscope….
E9pE4re.jpg
 
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Hah, no.

Either way, how is the Xbox "crazy" but the PS5 is not? They're almost exactly the same, the main differences being that the Xbox has 17% more TFLOPs while the PS5 has a more than 100% faster SSD. They both do what they need to (and they're both very weak next to a high end PC).
 
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no way! my plastic box is better than yours and nothing will change my mind. i will loyally defend my favorite multi billion dollar company!
 
It will come down to the developers of the most high budget exclusives. As usual.

At the end of the generation.
 
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MikeM said:
Disclaimer: I have both.

I have yet to play a game that uses both boxes' hardware to the fullest. Until we see mesh/primitive shaders being used, cache scrubbers, SFS etc, then we won't know the true performance of these machines. Thanks to cross-gen for delaying the implementation of these features.
Click to expand...

Exactly we haven't seen anything yet as it's all last gen software and on the Xbox side very few games have used Tier 2 VRS let alone SFS and Mesh Shaders.
Hopefully Forza Motorsport will have at least fully integrated from the ground up VRS which is why it looks so good and is next gen only with gameplay RT.
It's always going to be up to first parties to push the consoles.
 
From a console tech perspective there's no practical difference between xsex and PS5 (I'm not considering xses - thats last gen with lipstick).

Given the hollering about variable clocks and tflops deficits in the launch run up, that PS5 is comfortably matching or surpassing Xsex is a "win" of efficiency over brute force.

But that was easily predictable at the time … a surprising number of people didnt want to hear that message though.

Dualsense feels great, PS5 system software is basic but works and doesn't get in the way, and overall it feels like a premium product. PS5 still has exclusives from both 3rd and first parties which are a big draw.

Xsex bundled controller is plasticky and crappy feeling and the OS is painful to use and looks downright ugly at times. The quick resume feature is often slower than straight launching a game on PS5 so that was a waste.

But for now it's easier to say the tech side is a wash between PS5 and Xsex because controllers have to be tried and OS issues are alleviated by familiarity.

But anyway all the above is kind of irrelevant now because MS aren't in the console "war" anymore. They are a PC game publisher and platform provider (and the ActiBliz deal will make them nearly as big a mobile game presence as PC). In this context, the xsex is a budget box for people who "can't afford" a PC or just can't be bothered to fiddle with the PC's various compatibility problems. Xsex will become a tiny segment of the xbox division which will be all about producing and publishing software.

Sony may well end up going the same way and become a PC game maker with a console "on ramp" but they're not there yet.

As a result the xsex is basically irrelevant as a console - it's relevance is as a budget gaming PC. But, you can literally put together a real PC with Xsex power for the price of an Xsex - maybe even less these days - and play every game available on xsex and a gazzilion more that aren't including some made by MS themselves.

PS5 remains a "proper" console - so far its exclusive games are just that, exclusive. But who knows if it will stay that way this whole generation. So far, PC is getting remade PS last gen games only, but the leaks and gossip are swirling about PS5 games coming to PC.

The only "true" major console maker left is nintendo in terms of making custom hardware with games which remain exclusive. I'm sure no one is comparing the switch to the PS5 on power. But that portability factor is still compelling and the exclusives are still a reason to buy one.

So overall the console "war" is done for now - tech is a wash but in terms of marketplace, MS has chosen to fight in a different war and Sony aren't going that far yet. There are some holdouts in the xbox world who still don't seem to realise that "Xbox" is a gaming brand for Microsoft and not a single piece of hardware.

Xbox from a software publishing perspective (after the AB acquisition is complete) is more like EA these days - or maybe tencent is a closer comparison with the amount of mobile stuff. And much like those, they will chase sales on any platform that offers them.

Yes I'm saying those MS published games will come to PS and Nintendo consoles - on the condition that Sony sells enough (nintendo already have with switch). For Sony to sell enough they need to release compelling, fully exclusive games for PS such that they sell a lot of consoles.
 
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My general take is that framerate differences are on average, very minor. I don't care about a 3 frame discrepancy either way.

Resolution differences are practically non-existent from what I've seen.

I de-activated the haptics on my Dualsense because I care more about longevity, it's a lovely controller. As is the Xbox pad.

Both SSDs are lovely. The PS5 one is very impressive for in game loading times, I think Elden Ring at launch was about 7 seconds when you died but Xbox was around 20. Quick Resume is lovely if you like to jump between single player games.

In short, both experiences are very good and now more than ever it basically just comes down to what games you prefer.
 
In Cold Blood said:
Normally when the new consoles are released we don't have enough knowledge to compare them with any real precision. It Normally takes a couple of years before the NDA stuff tends to leak through developer talks etc.
Are we at this point yet?
I think MS have been crazy open about the tech in the XSX and Sony has been the total opposite, which is really disappointing.
Last gen Sony was really forward in talking about the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Maybe it's because they feel that a specs comparison won't suit them. Don't know.
What say ye, without warning of course.
Click to expand...

I think this is part of it. Which console actually comes out on top is hard to say but on paper it's hard for Sony to show off to the masses. We're relatively used to hearing "this one has higher teraflops therefore it's better" and in that case Xbox wins. Literally never has anyone said "my storage is faster......" and it be impressive. It is impressive but it's pretty difficult to make it sound sexy.

Plus if PS5 achieves, say, 2 second load times on Game XYZ and Xbox Series X can hit 5 seconds, those are both close enough to "instant" for it not to matter that much. On the flipside, Xbox may end up having slightly better raytracing but if raytracing this gen is so barebones it won't matter either because it'll just be (PS5) shit raytracing versus (Xbox) not very good raytracing.
 
In Cold Blood said:
Ok here's a comparison.
PS5 had Primitive Shaders and the XSX has Mesh Shaders.
They both do a similar task. Mesh Shaders are a refined improvement over Primitive Shaders, and brings AMD in line with both Nvidia and Intel. Both DX12U and Vulkan support Mesh Shaders.
So if Mesh Shaders become the default tech, how easily is it to convert to Primitive on the PS5?
If they arnt 100% the same, what may or may not be the real world differences in game?
Click to expand...

Alex talked about this on DF, he said eventually Mesh Shaders would show an advantage but it was years away as it needs to be plumbed into the engine from day one, also 4A said their engine already did this sort of culling so it wasn't useful to them but they were very interested in SFS.
Some studios will have their own solutions and obviously Unreal Engine 5 will level that playing field considerably.
 
ToadMan said:
From a console tech perspective there's no practical difference between xsex and PS5 (I'm not considering xses - thats last gen with lipstick).

Given the hollering about variable clocks and tflops deficits in the launch run up, that PS5 is comfortably matching or surpassing Xsex is a "win" of efficiency over brute force.

But that was easily predictable at the time … a surprising number of people didnt want to hear that message though.

Dualsense feels great, PS5 system software is basic but works and doesn't get in the way, and overall it feels like a premium product. PS5 still has exclusives from both 3rd and first parties which are a big draw.

Xsex bundled controller is plasticky and crappy feeling and the OS is painful to use and looks downright ugly at times. The quick resume feature is often slower than straight launching a game on PS5 so that was a waste.

But for now it's easier to say the tech side is a wash between PS5 and Xsex because controllers have to be tried and OS issues are alleviated by familiarity.

But anyway all the above is kind of irrelevant now because MS aren't in the console "war" anymore. They are a PC game publisher and platform provider (and the ActiBliz deal will make them nearly as big a mobile game presence as PC). In this context, the xsex is a budget box for people who "can't afford" a PC or just can't be bothered to fiddle with the PC's various compatibility problems. Xsex will become a tiny segment of the xbox division which will be all about producing and publishing software.

Sony may well end up going the same way and become a PC game maker with a console "on ramp" but they're not there yet.

As a result the xsex is basically irrelevant as a console - it's relevance is as a budget gaming PC. But, you can literally put together a real PC with Xsex power for the price of an Xsex - maybe even less these days - and play every game available on xsex and a gazzilion more that aren't including some made by MS themselves.

PS5 remains a "proper" console - so far its exclusive games are just that, exclusive. But who knows if it will stay that way this whole generation. So far, PC is getting remade PS last gen games only, but the leaks and gossip are swirling about PS5 games coming to PC.

The only "true" major console maker left is nintendo in terms of making custom hardware with games which remain exclusive. I'm sure no one is comparing the switch to the PS5 on power. But that portability factor is still compelling and the exclusives are still a reason to buy one.

So overall the console "war" is done for now - tech is a wash but in terms of marketplace, MS has chosen to fight in a different war and Sony aren't going that far yet. There are some holdouts in the xbox world who still don't seem to realise that "Xbox" is a gaming brand for Microsoft and not a single piece of hardware.

Xbox from a software publishing perspective (after the AB acquisition is complete) is more like EA these days - or maybe tencent is a closer comparison with the amount of mobile stuff. And much like those, they will chase sales on any platform that offers them.

Yes I'm saying those MS published games will come to PS and Nintendo consoles - on the condition that Sony sells enough (nintendo already have with switch). For Sony to sell enough they need to release compelling, fully exclusive games for PS such that they sell a lot of consoles.
Click to expand...
This is a prime example of why neogaf isn't ready for such conversations.
 
ToadMan said:
From a console tech perspective there's no practical difference between xsex and PS5 (I'm not considering xses - thats last gen with lipstick).

Given the hollering about variable clocks and tflops deficits in the launch run up, that PS5 is comfortably matching or surpassing Xsex is a "win" of efficiency over brute force.

But that was easily predictable at the time … a surprising number of people didnt want to hear that message though.

Dualsense feels great, PS5 system software is basic but works and doesn't get in the way, and overall it feels like a premium product. PS5 still has exclusives from both 3rd and first parties which are a big draw.

Xsex bundled controller is plasticky and crappy feeling and the OS is painful to use and looks downright ugly at times. The quick resume feature is often slower than straight launching a game on PS5 so that was a waste.

But for now it's easier to say the tech side is a wash between PS5 and Xsex because controllers have to be tried and OS issues are alleviated by familiarity.

But anyway all the above is kind of irrelevant now because MS aren't in the console "war" anymore. They are a PC game publisher and platform provider (and the ActiBliz deal will make them nearly as big a mobile game presence as PC). In this context, the xsex is a budget box for people who "can't afford" a PC or just can't be bothered to fiddle with the PC's various compatibility problems. Xsex will become a tiny segment of the xbox division which will be all about producing and publishing software.

Sony may well end up going the same way and become a PC game maker with a console "on ramp" but they're not there yet.

As a result the xsex is basically irrelevant as a console - it's relevance is as a budget gaming PC. But, you can literally put together a real PC with Xsex power for the price of an Xsex - maybe even less these days - and play every game available on xsex and a gazzilion more that aren't including some made by MS themselves.

PS5 remains a "proper" console - so far its exclusive games are just that, exclusive. But who knows if it will stay that way this whole generation. So far, PC is getting remade PS last gen games only, but the leaks and gossip are swirling about PS5 games coming to PC.

The only "true" major console maker left is nintendo in terms of making custom hardware with games which remain exclusive. I'm sure no one is comparing the switch to the PS5 on power. But that portability factor is still compelling and the exclusives are still a reason to buy one.

So overall the console "war" is done for now - tech is a wash but in terms of marketplace, MS has chosen to fight in a different war and Sony aren't going that far yet. There are some holdouts in the xbox world who still don't seem to realise that "Xbox" is a gaming brand for Microsoft and not a single piece of hardware.

Xbox from a software publishing perspective (after the AB acquisition is complete) is more like EA these days - or maybe tencent is a closer comparison with the amount of mobile stuff. And much like those, they will chase sales on any platform that offers them.

Yes I'm saying those MS published games will come to PS and Nintendo consoles - on the condition that Sony sells enough (nintendo already have with switch). For Sony to sell enough they need to release compelling, fully exclusive games for PS such that they sell a lot of consoles.
Click to expand...
This post is a golden shower of stupid but the bolded part still manages to stand out. Show us how you make a PC with XSX specs for less than 500 please.
 
Unfortunately no, because someone people desperately want their beloved plastic box to be seen as superior to the other plastic box, or even high-end PC, despite the fact that consoles basically are PCs themselves now and we can just compare the spec sheets 1:1 since they're all using the exact same AMD hardware.
 
In Cold Blood said:
Ok here's a comparison.
PS5 had Primitive Shaders and the XSX has Mesh Shaders.
They both do a similar task. Mesh Shaders are a refined improvement over Primitive Shaders, and brings AMD in line with both Nvidia and Intel. Both DX12U and Vulkan support Mesh Shaders.
So if Mesh Shaders become the default tech, how easily is it to convert to Primitive on the PS5?
If they arnt 100% the same, what may or may not be the real world differences in game?
Click to expand...
I'm too lazy to go search, but from what I recall reading back then and from the PS5 presentation, they're not just primitive shaders. The chip has Sonys custom hardware built in, the Geometry engine, just like AMD did for their RDNA2 cards _ which Ms seems to have adopted without much changes for the 'easy to port' to pc.
So they have also their own evolution of the old geometry system, hardware support, the software support from their own library and tools that are compatible with DX12 and Vulcan at least since last Gen for the same easy to port with pc (that now is even more important to Sony since exclusives are having pc versions too.

PS. This is just my 2 cents, I'm no tech expert mate 😂
 
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In terms of Sony and Microsoft, yes I think so. Their approaches are different enough and the games are similar enough. There are pros and cons for both systems that really cancel each other out. This isn't a PS4 vs Xbox One situation, when even then, it was pretty close. When you add Nintendo the mix, I think it's difficult to compare. There approach is way to far off the reservation, so crazy it works. Working with AMD and X86, there is to much information sharing, to not similar. The next war will be about services, delivery method and content. Unless someone breaks out into the ARM space for high powered console, I doubt hardware will be much to compare and war about.
When DLSS and whatever variant comes into play? that will make it even more difficult. Maybe the next war is latency lag and streaming issues, and value for service.
 
Sony doesn't worry about specs because the PS5 has shown results already for almost two years now, including stunting games like R&C Rift Apart. Just as no one compares GPU specs on PC (you compare results) the same should be true for consoles. So far results have shown two consoles that are extremely close with some games running better in one and some running better in the another, with the difference being negligible most of the time (if not all of the time).

What is there for Sony to gain if they started to push acronyms, teraflops, etc? In highlight their marketing focused on what really differentiate their console like the DualSense, 3D audio, the SSD, the new games, etc, was spot on.

Early in the gen we had a bunch of people making projections, assuming some technology that one has that the other one might not have is going to make all the difference, etc.. none of that panned out in any way and if any one did it was in favor of the PS5 as it has been able to keep up despite the "inferior" specs. Enough time has already passed for us to know there isn't going to be any major change.

edit: Forgot to mention that theoretically you can get the PS5 for $100 less with the exact same specs without the disc drive, another point in it's favor.
 
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In Cold Blood said:
Normally when the new consoles are released we don't have enough knowledge to compare them with any real precision. It Normally takes a couple of years before the NDA stuff tends to leak through developer talks etc.
Are we at this point yet?
I think MS have been crazy open about the tech in the XSX and Sony has been the total opposite, which is really disappointing.
Last gen Sony was really forward in talking about the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Maybe it's because they feel that a specs comparison won't suit them. Don't know.
What say ye, without warning of course.
Click to expand...
Sony was the total opposite and not open about the Tech in the PS5??
The feel of a spec comparison wont suite them?
I dont know in what world you where and are living but thats simply not true. Mark Cerny disagree with you, on both points, he talked long about it, but when you did not understand what he was talking about thats on you😉
 
Console warring is the most cringy absurd thing a human being can do. These consoles are now, and have been, exactly the same dive xb1/ps4, they are both running x86 AMD SOC's, same amount of ram, sure minor customization, but overall same exact console. I mean, I'm literally playing games line MLB the Show (Sony studios) and CoD full cross play and the games are exactly the same. Only reason to own both (like me) is for each consoles exclusives (halo, Gears, Stardield, and God of War, Spider-Man)

Outside that they are exactly the same shit with slight variations. Console warring is for 12 year olds, or the grown adult mental age of those engaging in it.
 
What inside the consoles are console tech and not pc or other stuff tech that consoles borrowed?
 
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Very similar hardware, but different software stacks on top.

Sony's OS/system layer is thinner than MS's offering which gives them a means to be slightly more performant with exact like-for-like hardware. No amount of BS about "special sauce" features really matters because its all software-based and thus can simply be replicated by either party, fundamental architecture permitting.
 
Its a shame devs have not come out and just said how things stand regarding there differences and they probably never will.

Based on the results from games they are the most similar performing systems ever imo with the xsx having a slight edge overall, which I dont think matters, it just prevented a repeat of the X1 vs PS4 scenario.
 
Sosokrates said:
Its a shame devs have not come out and just said how things stand regarding there differences and they probably never will.
Click to expand...
It's probably because they don't know the actual differences. Multiplat developers are either relying on third party game engines or high level languages/SDK's and platform API's these days. Nobody reallycodes to the metal any more besides the people creating the API's because the metal is too complex for most software devs. Those who do know about anything under the hood are probably bound by NDA not to talk about it.
 
Please dont be mean to my favorite plastic box companies. I find anyone who crticizes them to be "concerning", and they will be reported to the moderation team at once.


Lol, but seriously, when you own both, you tend to not care about the differences all that much, and both boxes are neck and neck anyway. There are even times when things that we though would be different across boxes arent what we expected, like the ps5 running a game at a higher resolution, or the xbox series having faster loading times for a title than the ps5
 
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In Cold Blood said:
Normally when the new consoles are released we don't have enough knowledge to compare them with any real precision. It Normally takes a couple of years before the NDA stuff tends to leak through developer talks etc.
Are we at this point yet?
I think MS have been crazy open about the tech in the XSX and Sony has been the total opposite, which is really disappointing.
Last gen Sony was really forward in talking about the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Maybe it's because they feel that a specs comparison won't suit them. Don't know.
What say ye, without warning of course.
Click to expand...

What technical PS5 spec has not been revealed that we don't know about?

Answer: none.

Just because you're ignorant OP and haven't been paying attention, doesn't mean the rest of us are.

We know all there is to know about the technical specs of the consoles. We know how they perform in multiplat cross-gen games, i.e. mostly the same between PS5 and XSX (with XSS lagging well behind). So there's no reason to try to conjure absurd narratives about Sony hiding their technical specs. They've got nothing to hide. The PS5 is 2 TLFOPs slower than the XSX and yet beats in a crazy number of cross-gen games. Even when the XSX does come out ahead, the difference is barely noticeable. So Sony delivered on the hardware front. They have every reason to be happy with their product (as should gamers).

There are virtually no current-gen only multiplatform games released yet. Once they do, it will become clearer where the strengths and weaknesses of the two main consoles manifest in the fringe cases.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
What technical PS5 spec has not been revealed that we don't know about?

Answer: none.

Just because you're ignorant OP and haven't been paying attention, doesn't mean the rest of us are.

We know all there is to know about the technical specs of the consoles. We know how they perform in multiplat cross-gen games, i.e. mostly the same between PS5 and XSX (with XSS lagging well behind). So there's no reason to try to conjure absurd narratives about Sony hiding their technical specs. They've got nothing to hide. The PS5 is 2 TLFOPs slower than the XSX and yet beats in a crazy number of cross-gen games. Even when the XSX does come out ahead, the difference is barely noticeable. So Sony delivered on the hardware front. They have every reason to be happy with their product (as should gamers).

There are virtually no current-gen only multiplatform games released yet. Once they do, it will become clearer where the strengths and weaknesses of the two main consoles manifest in the fringe cases.
Click to expand...
PS5 has pretty much over delivered on the hardware front this gen. I don't think most people expected things too be this close as far as performance (with the PS5 even beating the SSX in so many games so far). On top of that Sony was also able to manufacture a lot more consoles, offer a $400 discless version that performs the same, include a much more sophisticated gamepad and an SSD that isn't only much faster but also has much better options to be expanded.

Pretty much a master class from Mark Cerny, proving again that putting him in charge was the best decision Sony could've made.
 
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nominedomine said:
PS5 has pretty much over delivered on the hardware front this gen. I don't think most people expected things too be this close as far as performance (with the PS5 even beating the SSX in so many games so far). On top of that Sony was also able to manufacture a lot more consoles, offer a $400 discless version that performs the same, include a much more sophisticated gamepad and an SSD that isn't only much faster but also has much better options to be expanded.

Pretty much a master class from Mark Cerny, proving again that putting him in charge was the best decision Sony could've made.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

Well stated.
 
clarky said:
Agreed on this, the standard Xbox controller feels cheap against the dual sense. With that said though the elite is better than both but it should be at $150.

On topic they are both around the same. There's so little in it warriors have a tough fight on their hands this gen. I miss the C64 v Spectrum days, that was an easy win.
Click to expand...
Series X has the best dpad on any controller I have ever used.
 
I think so far PS5 has done a better job achieving the next-gen features promised during the pre launch period than the XSX has: Sub 2 second loading in optimized games, next-gen controller features and ray tracing during gameplay on their first party games (Insomniac is carrying them hard here).
 
In Cold Blood said:
Normally when the new consoles are released we don't have enough knowledge to compare them with any real precision. It Normally takes a couple of years before the NDA stuff tends to leak through developer talks etc.
Are we at this point yet?
I think MS have been crazy open about the tech in the XSX and Sony has been the total opposite, which is really disappointing.
Last gen Sony was really forward in talking about the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Maybe it's because they feel that a specs comparison won't suit them. Don't know.
What say ye, without warning of course.
Click to expand...
No
 
Meicyn said:
I prefer the console with blast processing.
Click to expand...

Indeed, blast processing was to the 90s what teraflops, 4K and ray tracings are to the New Tens and counting.

But "blast processing" still wasn't all that they made it sound to be. And it was highly unreliable, and wasn't even used in many games, and it didn't even work or work well on each and every iteration of the Sega hardware:

The main point here should be that "blast processing" was referring to an unsupported coding technique that was never a part of the Genesis' specifications. It was a lie, plain and simple. Clever devs had been finding ways to use console hardware in unsupported ways to squeeze more out of the systems since at least the Atari 2600. What they did on the Genesis wasn't special, wasn't new and could also have been done on any other console including the SNES. Sega lied about what their console could do and what Nintendo's couldn't. One of the many reasons I was overjoyed to see them finally leave the console market for good.


1108089-92754_alnjty.jpg


Also, I get all the blast processing I need by simply eating at Taco Bell. :pie_invert:
 
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Umbasaborne said:
Please dont be mean to my favorite plastic box companies. I find anyone who crticizes them to be "concerning", and they will be reported to the moderation team at once.


Lol, but seriously, when you own both, you tend to not care about the differences all that much, and both boxes are neck and neck anyway. There are even times when things that we though would be different across boxes arent what we expected, like the ps5 running a game at a higher resolution, or the xbox series having faster loading times for a title than the ps5
Click to expand...
Yes, they are both great. Great tech.
 
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