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Are you ready to consider that capitalism is the real problem?

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
My favorite argument in this thread has been the guys claiming that the best way to institute peaceful communism will be to remove scarcity.

Wow! Why did nobody think of that before?

I think you have it sort of backwards, my...evaluation, I guess, is that peaceful communism isn't really possible before certain advances past scarcity. (or without rolling back parts of industrialization which it would be...difficult to establish consensus for)
 

danthefan

Member
It's pretty absurd to declare all those workers in extreme poverty. How many are part time for example, or live with their parents or are students etc etc etc.

And we can't all have our own definition of extreme poverty or it's impossible to have a conversation on the subject.
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
Sure it's always been the problem but I don't know the solution. We're all kinda locked in this cage fight at the moment and no one in this thread is ever going to live to see another way. Shrug. Imma make the best out of it tho.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Isn't this what we would call crony capitalism?

And generally speaking, I think capitalism and fascism can co-exist. But one definitely does not imply the other. Making bold statements such as "Capitalism is Fascism" makes me think you're simply trying to push an agenda.

Fascism protects property, outlaws labor movements, and demands that the needs of the working class be subordinated to the needs of the state. It is capitalism with fangs, the last gasp of a faltering economic system that attempts to stave off its own demise through extreme force and obedience.

In Germany and in Italy, fascist movements rode to power on the back of conservative fears of labor. Many reasonable, moderate market liberals such as Franz von Papen cooperated with Hitler to keep leftists out of power, while industrialists like Fritz Thyssen financed the Nazi ascension. While fascism and capitalism are certainly not synonymous, historically the former has been a tool to preserve the latter.

Who would make video games in a non-capitalist society?

Do you sincerely believe nobody would make art if it couldn't make them wealthy?
 
I can't see a reason for a team of hundreds of people to work 50 hours a week for years to deliver a video game for a console that hundreds of people spent tens of thousands of man hours to create for people to get for free (?).

Nah.
 

SMattera

Member
In Germany and in Italy, fascist movements rode to power on the back of conservative fears of labor. Many reasonable, moderate market liberals such as Franz von Papen cooperated with Hitler to keep leftists out of power, while industrialists like Fritz Thyssen financed the Nazi ascension. While fascism and capitalism are certainly not synonymous, historically the former has been a tool to preserve the latter.

The majority of captialist counties have never had major fascist moments. Postulating some link between the two is simply nonsense.

Fascism itself is basically a pointless weasel word term. What we actually care about is the relative level of totalitarian dictatorship status. While a few capitalist counties have, admittedly, fallen into that trap (at times to protect or advance capital), every single socialist country in the history of the world has been a brutal dictatorship. It's not even close.
 

Nerazar

Member
Capitalism is not the issue, it's the blatant disregard of human value which causes problems. Both communism and capitalism can work in their ideal state, but since humans are part of the equation, this state may probably never be achieved.

So what he have right now is not the best system, but it is the best system for the majority of people. Or at least the maximum amount of people. Were we to change certain parameters or categories like growth and financial gain into more long-term visions of those, we would have a more ideal state everywhere. It's the nearsightedness of men which is the main source of problems. Which is why we have to establish strong social laws and nets which help those who are not able to thrive in the current form of capitalism.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Do you sincerely believe nobody would make art if it couldn't make them wealthy?

No, that was a poorly worded question on my side. I was trying to build a longer discussion, but I directed it wrongly. Anyhow depends a lot on how the whole gaming industry would be set up as a cooperative/state own companies or if indies can exist in communism. But even so, yes there would be quite a number of passion projects. But the type of AAA games that we have today require much more than passion.

Anyhow it's a very side argument to the whole discussion.

BTW, a PC used for developing games is a mean of production so should it belong to the community/state?
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I can't see a reason for a team of hundreds of people to work 50 hours a week for years to deliver a video game for a console that hundreds of people spent tens of thousands of man hours to create for people to get for free (?).

Nah.

Linux almost fits that to a tee (minus the video game part).

Plus, no one is doing anything for 'free', they are benefitting by 'paying' for their place in society, and creating something they are proud of.

Double plus, money isn't the exclusive provenance of Capitalism.
 
Again. Capitalism and Social Democracy are best paired together to temper one another...to avoid the extremes that each alone falls trap to.

That's why countries who smartly implement a combination of both have the best standard of living , social mobility, and happiness across their population as a whole.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Plus, no one is doing anything for 'free', they are benefitting by 'paying' for their place in society.

Their place in the society is guaranteed by the the way society works and it doesn't depend on the quality of their work. So unless it's a passion project the quality or the timeline might suffer.

Does that mean piano and paper are too?

The piano is a bourgeois object anyhow.
 
So I just randomly decided to read through this thread, and here's just some random thoughts. Warning, I really like to try and clearly get my points across...which makes me horrendously long-winded. Long post ahead.

While there's no doubt that Capitalism has proven to yield good results, that doesn't mean it's as infallible and perfect a system as some claim. Just because it's "the best system so far" doesn't mean that it doesn't have any flaws, and that those flaws can't possibly be improved. Just because a coat with holes is the best thing I have for keeping me warm in the cold doesn't mean that I should A) Stop looking for a coat with no/fewer holes in it, B) Not try to patch up the holes if I can, or C) Throw away the coat because it's not doing me much good anyway. It does us no good to fall back on true but tired statements, nor does it do us any good to totally dismiss them entirely.

These aren't faults in the capitalist theory per se, but rather the end result of failing to protect some of the essential aspects of capitalism... true competition, preventing monopolies, preventing anti-competitive behaviour, separating the political system from corporate influence.
This has always confused me, because I don't really understand how "true competition" and "preventing monopolies" can feasibly exist in Capitalism? In business, either my company gets the consumer's dollar, or my competitors do. If my company gets enough consumer dollars, the other companies will suffer and probably go out of business, and then I will have a monopoly, plus the mindshare/infrastructure to give future upstart competitors a hard time if I maintain consumer trust. That's the inevitable endgame, the goal is to make money, and since money is a limited resource, that means by making money, I am then taking away money that could've gone to a competitor. Either I win or they lose, period. The only way the "everybody gets a piece of the pie" ideal works is if each company targets a different section of the market, but since that basically cultivates and preys upon our differences (class, race, gender, etc.) and often creates an "us vs. them" mentality (for example, console wars), I'm not sure if that can truly be considered a good thing.

So really, the only things that should be completely out of bounds for companies are cheating the system or blatantly exploiting and mistreating the public. Other than that, anything goes. Just like any other competition, one must play within the rules and do everything in their power to beat the opponent, because in the end there is only one winner, and thus a loser as well. I just don't see why people seem to pretend that Capitalism is supposed to be anything other than a cutthroat free-for-all where the cream rises to the top...but all who don't disappear.

Capitalism requires regulation. It's a shame that the current ruling party of the United States is in the pockets of those who have a clear self-interest in that regulation being weakened/removed altogether.
Here's the problem though: Capitalism requires regulation to be the positive force for society it was hoped to be... but it needs no regulation to function and be successful. This is in stark contrast to Socialism, which requires regulation and strong government to even exist, let alone be successful. One bad apple in office and a Socialist system tends to explode near-instantly. On the other hand, Capitalism brings in the money and maintains a functional, if not totally stable, economy no matter what. I mean, think about it, even during modern-day economic crises, it's not like everything suddenly crumbled and totally fell apart. People were still spending, and thus a band-aid was slapped on the issue and we moved on. No massive reforms, no revolt from the common folk, no overthrow of the current government. With corrupt Socialism that probably would've happened, but corrupt Capitalism? Yeah right. This creates an odd situation where the government needs big business more than big business needs the government. Since it's in top government officials' best interests that businesses remain healthy and the economy appear stable so that their own lives can be as stable, profitable, and stress-free as possible, well then naturally they're going to spend the majority of their time kissing up to big business and doing things according to their needs rather than the people's. And since it seems like a large number of Americans are utterly convinced that what's good for businesses automatically will be good for enough (not all, not even most, but just enough) of us, the system persists.

But that IS the point. Profit is more important than protecting their own employees, the very people is giving them prosperity. I get the "I'm making less money", but it is not because of being an unviable business, or the market disregarding them, is because they are investing in a vital part of the business, and that is their own people. That is terrible.

And yeah, I don't know if we can just say it is part of the system itself, or the people running it, but as it is it just can't be. It is cultural, but capitalism is central in our culture (hell, even for the ideology itself, it's part of human nature so we should be fucked lol).

TL;DR is: stop treating people as less important than profit.
This is interesting too. There's really no reason why a nation as successful and wealthy as America should have the structural problems it does. You'd think that it'd be a relatively easy thing to invest a portion of the tons of money coming in back into the daily lives of the people spending, but I guess not. I think back to Stephanie McMahon's infamous "philanthropy is the future of marketing" quote, and while it's a rotten statement, if that's really what it's come to, maybe we just need to go all the way and require that a cut of what these companies make goes directly to these communities, and I don't mean in the superficial "improving the standard of living" way, I'm talking money going straight to schools at the very least. If Capitalism is going to be a battlefield no matter what, then why don't we shift the battle for the consumer's wallet ever so slightly towards the battle for the consumer's trust? "Mom and Pop" businesses are probably never coming back in a big way, but maybe we should demand that big businesses at least attempt to adopt a few of those types of values, to the point where a local installment of a worldwide franchise is seen as a good, valuable part of a community, rather than just another option for making (minimum wage) or spending money.

It seems like the biggest problem with the current state of Capitalism is that it, with the help of its spokesman Consumerism, treats profit (and immediate profit at that) as the end-all, be-all, and we've totally bought into that ideal as a culture. I mean sheesh, even the stereotypical American ideal of individuality has morphed into..."Do you, but only if it pays, and pays well. If not, don't bother." They see us only as vehicles to buy their stuff, we see them only as vehicles to give us the money to buy their stuff. Everything else (which is necessary for our nation's continued health, mind you) is always "someone else's problem."

I really don't think all this is a Capitalist society at its best. Surely some of these holes can be patched up...right?
 
I haven't seen many people arguing that any modern implementation of Capitalism is absolutely perfect. Not sure why that's what you're arguing.

This thread postulates that Capitalism itself is a problem, which implies there's a solution that isn't Capitalism that would be inherently better and more viable. So far no one has given a solution that is better.

None of that means that there are no flaws in our current systems. Most people are arguing that, even with its flaws, Capitalism beats out any other system we've tried (socialism, communism). The facts, when not brutally massaged into showing the opposite of the truth, bear that out. Capitalism has been a net good for humanity in terms of life expectancy, QoL, wealth, and many other metrics. I don't think the same can be said for any socialist, communist, or fascist regimes.
 
Equally interesting is how people will argue that capitalism is horrible despite the only common factor amongst the most prosperous civilizations, while arguing the socialism in its true form is the only thing that can work despite nobody ever having been successful in implementing it, and all societies that have tried failing miserably

nmuulecvje8z.png
 

MrMephistoX

Member
Capitalism only works when there's a robust safety net and we're getting to the point where the government should start providing for baseline basic needs with the coming wave of AI and automation. No one should be homeless, go hungry, have to worry about a roof over their head, being bombed, having to pay the electric and water bills, being bombed or getting an education: everything else have at it capitalists and charge whatever you want.

Universal Healthcare
Universal Food
Universal Housing
Universal Utlities
Universal Defense
Universal Education

Those are fucking human rights and shouldn't be for profit period at the minimum baseline necessary for survival...obviously for folks that can afford higher end housing and food capitalize away but the bare minimum should exist for everyone without a huge waiting list and arcane bureaucracy.

Government should only step in to regulate those areas since they're essential for survival and let the tech companies, retail, entertainment and CPG companies run wild with all the rest. Obviously regulate the "entitlements" to prevent abuse and anything freely handed out by the government should be spartan bare bones to ensure survival (not a luxury condo) r but at a certain income level it makes sense.
 
I haven't seen many people arguing that any modern implementation of Capitalism is absolutely perfect. Not sure why that's what you're arguing.

This thread postulates that Capitalism itself is a problem, which implies there's a solution that isn't Capitalism that would be inherently better and more viable. So far no one has given a solution that is better.

None of that means that there are no flaws in our current systems. Most people are arguing that, even with its flaws, Capitalism beats out any other system we've tried (socialism, communism). The facts, when not brutally massaged into showing the opposite of the truth, bear that out. Capitalism has been a net good for humanity in terms of life expectancy, QoL, wealth, and many other metrics. I don't think the same can be said for any socialist, communist, or fascist regimes.
Oh I'm sorry, I must not have been clear then. In that part of my post I was arguing against the tendency to end the conversion at "well Capitalism has been a net good overall and there's nothing that's proven to be better, so everything's fine." That does nothing but allow the flaws our Capitalist system has proven to have to remain overlooked and thus not discussed. Perfect cannot be the enemy of good. Just because there is no flat-out better option available doesn't mean that we stick with the decent-but-still heavily flawed system we have, and handwave any complaints against it with "it's the best proven system." It's the equivalent of shrugging and walking away from a problem, and it's present in this thread. That's the attitude I tried to argue against.

Yes, Capitalism as we've come to know it (not the ideal, but what's actually been put into practice) is a problem. It's done a lot of good, but it has serious issues that have done quite a bit of damage. Those issues need to be pointed out and dealt with if possible, and if that ever happens...we wouldn't really have a fully Capitalist system then, because we'd have stripped out as many problematic elements of it as possible and replaced it with something different. We could still call it Capitalism of course, or argue that it's still representative of the ideal, but that's an argument for the historians. That doesn't stand any chance of happening though, not as long as the general conversation about it resembles this:

"Hey man, your computer's busted."

"Well, can you give me a new, better one?"

"No, but I think I can do some things to help it run bett-"

"Then my computer's fine. At least it still works."
 
Capitalism only works when there's a robust safety net and we're getting to the point where the government should start providing for baseline basic needs with the coming wave of AI and automation. No one should be homeless, go hungry, have to worry about a roof over their head, being bombed, having to pay the electric and water bills, being bombed or getting an education: everything else have at it capitalists and charge whatever you want.

Universal Healthcare
Universal Food
Universal Housing
Universal Utlities
Universal Defense
Universal Education

Those are fucking human rights and shouldn't be for profit period at the minimum baseline necessary for survival...obviously for folks that can afford higher end housing and food capitalize away but the bare minimum should exist for everyone without a huge waiting list and arcane bureaucracy.

Government should only step in to regulate those areas since they're essential for survival and let the tech companies, retail, entertainment and CPG companies run wild with all the rest. Obviously regulate the "entitlements" to prevent abuse and anything freely handed out by the government should be spartan bare bones to ensure survival (not a luxury condo) r but at a certain income level it makes sense.

You should see then how neoliberals on Swedish forums argue then, where they want to see stuff like the police force privatized, building roads and road maintenance should not come from taxes and so on. Solving the housing crisis we have is only solved by totally deregulating rents and so on. That's how neoliberals argue here.
 

iamblades

Member
You should see then how neoliberals on Swedish forums argue then, where they want to see stuff like the police force privatized, building roads and road maintenance should not come from taxes and so on. Solving the housing crisis we have is only solved by totally deregulating rents and so on. That's how neoliberals argue here.

Those first two are more ancap than 'neoliberal', which is just today's popular slur for some reason.

The last example is just basic economics, price regulations result in shortages because of increased demand and reduced supply. Even most left wing economists agree on this point:

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/rent-control

Price controls don't work, we've known this since Diocletian, every time they have been tried it has resulted in the same problems.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Their place in the society is guaranteed by the the way society works and it doesn't depend on the quality of their work. So unless it's a passion project the quality or the timeline might suffer.

I dunno about that. Quality of work isn't strictly tied to rewards or fear of losing a job. In a post-Capitalist society, neither of those are necessarily off the cards.

The piano is a bourgeois object anyhow.

Maybe in the 16th Century. :D
 

Galava

Member
As if capitalism hasn't existed for almost our entire history as a species in some way or another...

Of course, no one knows what the future will be with all the AI and automation advancements. We might need to reestructure some things, maybe everything.

Stop demonising capitalism, that's not the problem. Lack of certain regulations are the problem. We all already have some laws that we have been building up so everything doesn't go to shit. If we want to "fix" it, we need to establish common laws between all the countries and decide upon "this is right, this is wrong". Otherwise when you establish a law that limits some companies' actions they will just move to another country and do the same thing they were doing.

Regarding that "stock fell when they said they were increasing worker's wages" it's completely normal, the company will have less profit, so investors don't want to lose money, that's it. investing is not some "for the good of everyone" thing, is business.
 
Regarding that "stock fell when they said they were increasing worker's wages" it's completely normal, the company will have less profit, so investors don't want to lose money, that's it. investing is not some "for the good of everyone" thing, is business.

It also sounds really bad for the majority of people who only have their labor to sell and do not own capital.
 
Regarding that "stock fell when they said they were increasing worker's wages" it's completely normal, the company will have less profit, so investors don't want to lose money, that's it. investing is not some "for the good of everyone" thing, is business.
The fact that it's normal is why the problem is the system instead of the individual actors. The great god profit seeks to destroy all in search of growth.
 

iamblades

Member
It also sounds really bad for the majority of people who only have their labor to sell and do not own capital.

It's bad for the owners too, who have the value of their asset depreciate because of it's reduced yield.

It's a fact that assets are priced according to their estimated future yield, so an increase in wages leads (in the absence of an increase in productivity) leads to a decrease in value. Whether it's good or bad is irrelevant, you can't get more out of a system than what is put into it. Even under communism, it's simply not physically possible.

That said, free market capitalism is kind of neat in that the owners of a company can be whoever. I encourage the workers to seize the means of production as much as any marxist, I just want them to do it the way anyone else does, legally, by buying them.
 

Caturro

Member
As if capitalism hasn't existed for almost our entire history as a species in some way or another...

Of course, no one knows what the future will be with all the AI and automation advancements. We might need to reestructure some things, maybe everything.

Stop demonising capitalism, that's not the problem. Lack of certain regulations are the problem. We all already have some laws that we have been building up so everything doesn't go to shit. If we want to "fix" it, we need to establish common laws between all the countries and decide upon "this is right, this is wrong". Otherwise when you establish a law that limits some companies' actions they will just move to another country and do the same thing they were doing.

Regarding that "stock fell when they said they were increasing worker's wages" it's completely normal, the company will have less profit, so investors don't want to lose money, that's it. investing is not some "for the good of everyone" thing, is business.

So if Capitalism isn't the problem, then why does it need to be regulated?

Based on all the responses here I'm frankly baffled that people would consider Neogaf as some kind of bastion of the left. US based 'liberals' I would generally consider to be center left or dead on center if you go off of all those threads about minimum wage and healthcare funding.

The left in America does not exist and it's easy to come to that realization when people conflate socialism with authoritarian regimes in this forum.

All socialism means is that the workers own the means of production, and there are various ways in which that can happen democratically.
 

iamblades

Member
So if Capitalism isn't the problem, then why does it need to be regulated?

Based on all the responses here I'm frankly baffled that people would consider Neogaf as some kind of bastion of the left. US based 'liberals' I would generally consider to be center left or dead on center if you go off of all those threads about minimum wage and healthcare funding.

The left in America does not exist and it's easy to come to that realization when people conflate socialism with authoritarian regimes in this forum.

All socialism means is that the workers own the means of production, and there are various ways in which that can happen democratically.

Yeah, it's called buying them. Which is just capitalism.

Also authoritarianism is not mutually exclusive with democracy. Democracy usually has a liberalizing effect on a government, but it is perfectly possible to have a democracy being very authoritarian.
 

Caturro

Member
It's bad for the owners too, who have the value of their asset depreciate because of it's reduced yield.

It's a fact that assets are priced according to their estimated future yield, so an increase in wages leads (in the absence of an increase in productivity) leads to a decrease in value. Whether it's good or bad is irrelevant, you can't get more out of a system than what is put into it. Even under communism, it's simply not physically possible.

That said, free market capitalism is kind of neat in that the owners of a company can be whoever. I encourage the workers to seize the means of production as much as any marxist, I just want them to do it the way anyone else does, legally, by buying them.

So did the European settlers and conquistadors that took possession of all the natural resources in the Americas also 'purchase' lands and resources 'legally'? Was that also Capitalism?

You may think that my comment is off mark, but considering that the concentration of wealth in the Americas still remain the biggest hurdle for a higher social mobility, and much of this wealth has been passed on for generations among the same groups of people, why should the citizens of today be expected to keep playing in this uneven field by continuing to perpetuate a system that only benefits the people at the top?
 
What entitles my landlord to charge me money to have a place to live? Other than the threat of force by the state, why should I have to pay him just for a place to live, in a building he didn't build and on land he certainly didn't create?
 
So if Capitalism isn't the problem, then why does it need to be regulated?

Based on all the responses here I'm frankly baffled that people would consider Neogaf as some kind of bastion of the left. US based 'liberals' I would generally consider to be center left or dead on center if you go off of all those threads about minimum wage and healthcare funding.

The left in America does not exist and it's easy to come to that realization when people conflate socialism with authoritarian regimes in this forum.

All socialism means is that the workers own the means of production, and there are various ways in which that can happen democratically.

The word socialism is overused and misused too much. Socialism can refer to a dozen different things in America. It doesn't help that even in this thread some users consider communism a synonym.


Edit: Here in Canada, NDP and most socialists here acknowledge that Capitalism has its place and purpose in modern society. Fewer forces drive innovation as well as Capitalism, but we acknowledge it has too many flaws to be trusted. Socialized medicine, and welfare benefits, and even certain fields of research need to be controlled by the Government/People.
 

Caturro

Member
Yeah, it's called buying them. Which is just capitalism.

Also authoritarianism is not mutually exclusive with democracy. Democracy usually has a liberalizing effect on a government, but it is perfectly possible to have a democracy being very authoritarian.

I'm not sure what your point is? All I said is that people automatically conflate socialism with authoritarian, which isn't necessarily true. Also a capitalist system can be authoritarian, like the some of the military juntas that ruled part of South America and presently countries like China.

Also having an exchange of ownership of the means of production through purchase wouldn't necessarily validate capitalism if the end result is to end it. All it would guarantee is a smoother transition from one system to the other. But there are other ways in which this could happen, like acting on a referendum that would validate the seizing of the means of production compensating the original owners as was done in Chile with CODELCO under Allende.
 

iamblades

Member
So did the European settlers and conquistadors that took possession of all the natural resources in the Americas also 'purchase' lands and resources 'legally'? Was that also Capitalism?

You may think that my comment is off mark, but considering that the concentration of wealth in the Americas still remain the biggest hurdle for a higher social mobility, and much of this wealth has been passed on for generations among the same groups of people, why should the citizens of today be expected to keep playing in this uneven field by continuing to perpetuate a system that only benefits the people at the top?

In some cases, yes, actually.

In most cases they were quasi-feudal land grants, given this was mostly before capitalism was a thing.

As far as wealth being passed on for generations, that is not really the case over the long term. If you look at the forbes 400 list, a larger percentage of people on there came from lower/middle class backgrounds than are there due to inherited wealth(and of those, a large percentange of those are direct descendants, like the Kochs or the Waltons). You don't see too many Rockefellers or Carnegies these days(not that there aren't a lot of theme living very comfortably off of their inheritances, they just don't tend to stay on top for long periods of time).

The system does not only benefit people at the top, it benefits everyone capable of participating in it, albeit to an unequal degree.

I'm not sure what your point is? All I said is that people automatically conflate socialism with authoritarian, which isn't necessarily true. Also a capitalist system can be authoritarian, like the some of the military juntas that ruled part of South America and presently countries like China.

Also having an exchange of ownership of the means of production through purchase wouldn't necessarily validate capitalism if the end result is to end it. All it would guarantee is a smoother transition from one system to the other. But there are other ways in which this could happen, like acting on a referendum that would validate the seizing of the means of production compensating the original owners as was done in Chile with CODELCO under Allende.

Except it wouldn't end it, it'd just be a change of ownership. The only way to end capitalism is outlawing all competition, hence authoritarianism.

Like I said, nothing is stopping workers from owning corporations in any capitalist society, they just tend to not be competitive.
 

kirblar

Member
What entitles my landlord to charge me money to have a place to live? Other than the threat of force by the state, why should I have to pay him just for a place to live, in a building he didn't build and on land he certainly didn't create?
Because he owns it. Either he paid people to build it or he bought it from someone else. If you don't want to pay him for the rent you're free to live somewhere else!

He is responsible for building upkeep and entitled to do what he wants (within reason) with that land and his property.
 
Because he owns it. Either he paid people to build it or he bought it from someone else. If you don't want to pay him for the rent you're free to live somewhere else!

He is responsible for building upkeep and entitled to do what he wants (within reason) with that land and his property.
Why does he own it other than the state enforcing his ownership? After all, the people who built the house did so under threat of starvation.
 
Because he owns it. Either he paid people to build it or he bought it from someone else. If you don't want to pay him for the rent you're free to live somewhere else!

He is responsible for building upkeep and entitled to do what he wants (within reason) with that land and his property.

COQgS0MUcAA7-RK.png
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
My not-very-informed opinion has always been that a hybrid of regulated capitalism with socialism could be great.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Is that really controversial? Crony captialism and corperatism and neoliberalism run unchecked is a big problem of everything going on in America and beyond.
 
Why should he let you stay there?

Does this apply to say... the victims of that fire in the UK?

Was the government wrong to force luxury condo/apartments to provide those destitute people with housing far greater in value than their initial dwellings?

Also good job ignoring his question entirely lol.
 
Why should he let you stay there?

You make a deal, you own up to your end of it.
Why is it his to decide in the first place? What gives him a right to force me out if I can't pay? By what right does he have property? It is only his because we decide it is his.

I stay there because I need a home, he profits off of this for work he's never done. What makes the land his? He didn't create it. Neither did the person he bought it from.
 

kirblar

Member
Why is it his to decide in the first place? What gives him a right to force me out if I can't pay? By what right does he have property? It is only his because we decide it is his.

I stay there because I need a home, he profits off of this for work he's never done. What makes the land his? He didn't create it. Neither did the person he bought it from.
There are plenty of homes. Why do you have to stay in his? Surely you can find another home to house you for free?
 
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