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[SolidSnakex]

I think those are renders, even the best PS3, and 360 games have slight slight jaggies, there are absolutly none here.

Most next gen games don't have screens released in this resolution either which plays role in the lack of jaggies.

 

[Prine]

Its not like it looks any better than Chrome Hounds anyway. I wouldn't find it hard to believe. I'd assume From would be one of the early recipients of final kits, as they are probably the #2 japanese xbox 360 supporter.

YEah, MS and From have a good relationship. I think its safe to say they were high up on MS list to recieve finals devkits along with some hats Need to allocate more resources on a certain console

 

[Pimpwerx]

If it was for a newer PS3 version, why wasn't the trailer shown for both the Xbox 360 and PS3 at TGS?

And why does this site: http://www.gpara.com/comingsoon/ac4/0926/index.htm
specifically showcase these screens are for Xbox 360 and the others are for PS3? That wouldn't make sense if this was a new build of the PS3 version.

I agree that if it's from a specific build, it must be from the 360, b/c this was only shown at the 360 booth. OTOH, I don't think the PS3 build was shown at all at TGS. The pics on GPara are from the PS event at the end of July. They are almost 2-months old by now. But I would assume the game is being worked on simultaneously for both systems at this point.

If it was a new PS3 build, I assume it would have at least been showcased at TGS, but I saw no mention of it at all, and we saw a lot of old PS3 stuff shown there. So it should be the 360 version, assuming it's really real. That's some mighty fine work in a short period of time. PEACE.

 

[Raistlin]

They look like the exact same game to me ...


The PS3 pics just look like they're at dusk or dawn, while the 360 ones are during the day - and some of the pics appear to be from a cinema.

 

[PG2G]

I don't see why PS3 would have more aliasing either. It's like people still have PS2 vs XBOX in their minds. This is nVidia vs ATI, and we know that both offer crystal clear image quality in their products.

Apparently, PS3 can't do HDR and AA at the same time.

 

[dark10x]

Apparently, PS3 can't do HDR and AA at the same time.

Now THAT I would believe, as my 6800 is unable to do AA and HDR at the same time either. I'm suprised they didn't fix that with RSX (or even the 7800).

Far Cry 1.3 with AA and HDR == total graphical mess

When is ATI going to introduce HDR support into their PC graphics cards, though? None of the current cards support it.

 

[lips]

am I the only one who is still wondering why we are being shown games with charactors made of only a dozen or so thousand polygons. Screens look impressive all the same, good effects; but, the low polygon count shows and I hope future games do not follow the trend this one shows.

 

[Excelion]

I don't see why PS3 would have more aliasing either. It's like people still have PS2 vs XBOX in their minds. This is nVidia vs ATI, and we know that both offer crystal clear image quality in their products.

Xbox 360 gets 4xFSAA for virtually free and can do HDR + FSAA at the same time. G70 can't do HDR + FSAA at the same time, and it's speculated since RSX is based of G70 that it will have the same limitation. Thus why more jaggies on PS3 compared to Xbox 360.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Apparently, PS3 can't do HDR and AA at the same time.

The Getaway demo seems to have better dealing with aliasing and that was pretty much used as a HDR showcase, but than again that's Cell and not really much RSX which is said to have problems with HDR and AA.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Oops, my bad...

Here is the TGS version of AC4 at the Sony booth....it is EXACTLY the same as the PS meeting vid except its called AC4 instead of Project Force:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2168

The bottom two are the TGS PS3 trailers and the top two are the new X360 build trailer

Thanks, boss. So it was shown on the PS3, and the same damn teaser. That was realtime then too. I think the 360 version has the same voice intro as well. Crazy shit. This must by why I didn't hear anything about it for the PS3 though. The 360 version looked way better, and the PS3 one was old as dirt...and still ugly. :lol PEACE.

 

[Culex]

Now THAT I would believe, as my 6800 is unable to do AA and HDR at the same time either. I'm suprised they didn't fix that with RSX (or even the 7800).

Far Cry 1.3 with AA and HDR == total graphical mess

When is ATI going to introduce HDR support into their PC graphics cards, though? None of the current cards support it.

HDR is not tantemount to SM 3.0 (or Geforce 6/7-series cards). ATI cards can do HDR, just not the kind that is being implemented for Nvidia.

Look no further than Half-Life 2's Lost Coast. HDR running perfectly fine (and damn good looking, to boot) without a hitch.

 

[segarr]

Xbox 360 gets 4xFSAA for virtually free and can do HDR + FSAA at the same time. G70 can't do HDR + FSAA at the same time, and it's speculated since RSX is based of G70 that it will have the same limitation. Thus why more jaggies on PS3 compared to Xbox 360.

Well, that did it. There goes the thread.

 

[Redbeard]

They look the same to me quality-wise, and they both look like Chromehounds. Probably one engine they're using for all three games.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Both the early/newer builds of AC4 on X360/PS3 shits on Chrome Hounds from high above..

No comparison, IMO

 

[Kleegamefan]

Apparently, PS3 can't do HDR and AA at the same time.

You can do HDR on CELL......The Getaway Demo @ E3 was performing HDR without G70...

Furthermore, we are still 3 months away from seeing RSX in any PS3 dev system....

The current PS3 dev kits (w/ GF 7800s in them) cannot do HDR and AA at the same time....

 

[Pimpwerx]

Xbox 360 gets 4xFSAA for virtually free and can do HDR + FSAA at the same time. G70 can't do HDR + FSAA at the same time, and it's speculated since RSX is based of G70 that it will have the same limitation. Thus why more jaggies on PS3 compared to Xbox 360.

You are talking out of your ass here. PS3 can't do HDR and MSAA. It can do HDR and SSAA. It's a bandwidth issue, b/c one or the other eats up lots of fucking bwidth. The PS3 version doesn't look particularly jaggy, unless you go by the blown-up 1080p screens from the PS Fest. Those were blown-up from 720p, just as the 1080p MGS4 pics were.

But anytime someone mentions HDR and aliasing, I simply direct them to the Heavenly Sword screenshots:

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38&Itemid=61

Not a lick of AA used. DOF and motion-blur and some camera effects, but no AA. And you'd be an ass to claim there's a problem with the image-quality. It's fp16 HDR as well. Though those images are at 1080p. Image quality won't be a problem on either system, unless you really think 720p images are gonna feature horrible aliasing. It's just not the case. If image quality was really important, a game could be rendered at like 1080p natively and then supersampled down to 720p. Not an exact 2:1 ratio, but 2xSSAA will give you results on par with 4xMSAA. And it'll be on the whole image, which many think is better. But I don't care either way, AA is AA IMO. The downside is that SSAA will eat up fillrate. Tradeoffs for everything. PEACE.

 

[Culex]

You can do HDR on CELL......The Getaway Demo @ E3 was performing HDR without G70...

Yes, but if the RSX is really as similar to the G70 (7800GTX) as is lead to believe, then it can't do HDR and FSAA at the same time

 

[dark10x]

HDR is not tantemount to SM 3.0 (or Geforce 6/7-series cards). ATI cards can do HDR, just not the kind that is being implemented for Nvidia.

Look no further than Half-Life 2's Lost Coast. HDR running perfectly fine (and damn good looking, to boot) without a hitch.

The HDR in lost coast doesn't seem quite as robust as FC1.3, though...

Notice in the first pic, for example, how the light works with the trees. The streams of light as a result. There's a lot more to it than bloom and high contrasts. I do not yet know a whole lot about the techniques behind this, but there seems to be quite a difference. What is FC doing so differently from Lost Coast?








Doesn't really apply here, as I'm sure X360's ATI chip handles SM30, but things like the HDR in FC and the SM30 water effects are really damn impressive (seen in a PC flight sim -name escapes me- and the Warhawk demo).

I wonder why nVidia did not allow AA to function with HDR, though? Very odd.

 

[PG2G]

Xbox 360 does HDR right? Just not with the same percision as PS3?

 

[Kleegamefan]

Yes, but if the RSX is really as similar to the G70 (7800GTX) as is lead to believe, then it can't do HDR and FSAA at the same time

We will know the actual answer to that question in December....

 

[Pimpwerx]

You can do HDR on CELL......The Getaway Demo @ E3 was performing HDR without G70...

You can't AFAIK, for the fact that HDR is part of the rendering pipeline. Eventhough Cell and RSX are compatible, I don't think Cell can really interupt RSX's rendering pipeline. So it'll probably be a choice between AA and HDR, and I am pretty sure HDR will be chosen everytime. It seems to have been so far. The reason Xenos can do the two together is b/c there's seperate logic for AA, so the fragment pipes can handle the HDR, and then spit that data to eDRAM to get the AA. One of the elegant things in its design. But just not possible on more conventional GPUs. PEACE.

 

[Excelion]

The HDR in lost coast doesn't seem quite as robust as FC1.3, though...
I wonder why nVidia did not allow AA to function with HDR, though? Very odd.

It's a bandwidth limitation. The only reason Xbox 360 can do both is because of the 10MB of edram

 

[PG2G]

There have been numerous discussions at B3D about PS3 and HDR/AA. The general consensus is it won't happen, CPU or not. I think (but am not sure) Getaway was using a software renderer (no RSX), so it wouldn't have been an issue there.

 

[Culex]

The HDR in lost coast doesn't seem quite as robust as FC1.3, though...

Notice in the first pic, for example, how the light works with the trees. The streams of light as a result. There's a lot more to it than bloom and high contrasts.






Doesn't really apply here, as I'm sure X360's ATI chip handles SM30, but things like the HDR in FC and the SM30 water effects are really damn impressive (seen in a PC flight sim -name escapes me- and the Warhawk demo).

I wonder why nVidia did not allow AA to function with HDR, though? Very odd.

It's not that Nvidia didn't allow it, it's that it's technically impossible with the current boards. Something about anything below FP32 isn't feasible. If you run at a lower precision, then yes.

 

[HokieJoe]

So wait.... there's no loser between the two?
Is GAF broken?

:lol

 

[Doom_Bringer]

The HDR in lost coast doesn't seem quite as robust as FC1.3, though...

Notice in the first pic, for example, how the light works with the trees. The streams of light as a result. There's a lot more to it than bloom and high contrasts. I do not yet know a whole lot about the techniques behind this, but there seems to be quite a difference. What is FC doing so differently from Lost Coast?








Doesn't really apply here, as I'm sure X360's ATI chip handles SM30, but things like the HDR in FC and the SM30 water effects are really damn impressive (seen in a PC flight sim -name escapes me- and the Warhawk demo).


I wonder why nVidia did not allow AA to function with HDR, though? Very odd.

nice screens! Far Cry 1.3 looks awesome!

 

[Culex]

Half-Life 2 looks great with HDR, too:

 

[Redbeard]

Both the early/newer builds of AC4 on X360/PS3 shits on Chrome Hounds from high above..

No comparison, IMO

Shits on it? No way, dude.

It all looks similar to me, just a different style.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Xbox 360 does HDR right? Just not with the same percision as PS3?

Well....as I understand it, X360 can do HDR @ FP10 precision w/2XFSAA will very little performance hit...

Goin with higher AA or higher FP precision is a big BW hit, appearntly...

 

[dark10x]

Half-Life 2 looks great with HDR, too:

So what IS the difference? Obviously, visual differences could be due to design...but what is FC1.3 doing that HL2 isn't? Is it a precision thing?

Do you have any good articles/papers on this subject?

 

[Pimpwerx]

And note it's not that you can't do HDR and AA, you can't do HDR and MSAA. The way multisampling is handled requires a lot of sample fetches AFAIK. And the bandwidth to VRAM gets eaten up by this alone. Throw in something like 64bit HDR (which I do not understand the principles behind, but apparently also requires lots of memory transactions) essentially kills your bandwidth. I think HDR requires samples as well, not sure. But you can do Super-sampling AA, which just takes a high-resolution image and scales it down, which wouldn't require extra bandwidth so much as it would require more fillrate. You don't need extra samples to do it. MSAA was a cheaper form of AA since sample rates scaled faster than fillrates. Fillrate needed more external bandwidth than was available at the time IIRC, so they just used the internal bandwidth of the GPUs to churn out a lot of different samples and stayed off the external bus. But not I'm well into talking out of my ass. Some stuff I assume based on prior knowledge, but there's a large gap in my knowledge on the topic of AA.

Long story short...it ain't gonna happen cap'n. PEACE.

EDIT: And this thread really got derailed, huh? :lol

 

[Excelion]

Well....as I understand it, X360 can do HDR @ FP10 precision w/2XFSAA will very little performance hit...

Goin with higher AA or higher FP precision is a big BW hit, appearntly...

No Xbox 360 can do 2xFSAA + HDR with absolutely no performance hit at all. And can do HDR @ FP10 w/ 4xFSAA with very little performance hit(less than 5%).

 

[Kleegamefan]

Shits on it? No way, dude.

It all looks similar to me, just a different style.

I have seen both games moving though, and AC4 is very much superior in that regard in my eyes....especially with this new X360 build...

 

[Culex]

So what IS the difference? Obviously, visual differences could be due to design...but what is FC1.3 doing that HL2 isn't? Is it a precision thing?

Do you have any good articles/papers on this subject?

Try this article, as it may be of some help (probably not much).

Apparently, Valve is using a lower precision and is able to do HDR with AA on cards with SM 2.0/3.0.

 

[Redbeard]

I have seen both games moving though, and AC4 is very much superior in that regard in my eyes....especially with this new X360 build...

If you compare the trailers, I don't see how AC4 could be considered very much superior. It's flashier, but that's part of it's style.

 

[dark10x]

Try this article, as it may be of some help (probably not much).

Apparently, Valve is using a lower precision and is able to do HDR with AA on cards with SM 2.0/3.0.

I'll look through it...

Though, this isn't accurate...

To date, what has been touted as 'HDR' in games such as Far Cry is pretty much just a single feature called Blooming: where the light from a bright source spills over the edge of an object, obscuring it from view.

There is more to it than "blooming".

 

[PG2G]

I remember everyone talking shit about how ugly Project Force was, from the pics. Then when people saw the cool effects (explosions, smoke... etc) they thought it was impressive. The mechs themselves don't really seem terribly more detailed than those in Chrome Hounds, the environments may or may not be more complex. Haven't seen enough to tell.

Either way, Chrome Hounds is launch window (I think). Armored Core will probably be around PS3 time, so the games will be a good ~6 months apart.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Could it also be because Chrome Hound was moved from Xbox to Xbox3DO? Sort of like Evergrace at PS2 launch.

 

[Kleegamefan]

No Xbox 360 can do 2xFSAA + HDR with absolutely no performance hit at all. And can do HDR @ FP10 w/ 4xFSAA with very little performance hit(less than 5%).

You are right, I stand corrected

For this reason, you *should* see HDR used in most, if not all, X360 games

 

[Doc Savage]

"Well....as I understand it, X360 can do HDR @ FP10 precision w/2XFSAA will very little performance hit...

Goin with higher AA or higher FP precision is a big BW hit, appearntly..."

Hey Klee what does the BW stand for?

 

[EGM92]

"Well....as I understand it, X360 can do HDR @ FP10 precision w/2XFSAA will very little performance hit...

Goin with higher AA or higher FP precision is a big BW hit, appearntly..."

Hey Klee what does the BW stand for?

BW: Bandwidth?

 

[Doc Savage]

That works for me. Thanks EGM92!

 

[Fuma]

Wow! Whatever system that new movie is on, the game looks incredible. The textures seem a bit cleaner in this newer build. Very impressive. Definitely has that next gen feel to it.

 

[Fuma]

You are right, I stand corrected

For this reason, you *should* see HDR used in most, if not all, X360 games

Can anyone link me to information at the specific graphics features that each card can do in the next gen systems? Thanks.

 

[Slurpy]

Can anyone link me to information at the specific graphics features that each card can do in the next gen systems? Thanks.

Nope. That info isnt really fully disclosed yet.

 

[Kleegamefan]

They can both do lots of pretty, pretty stuffs....

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

That looked amazing. Shots didn't really look too special but looked spectacular in motion.

 

[Servizio]

...

I love the AC series and all but...Can we have a Zone of the Enders sequel? Please? Pretty please?

 

[Letter to Elise]

Simply amazing on both PS3 and xbox 360.

Next gen is a beast!

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh

My

God

that was amazing