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ARMS |OT| (’-‘)-------------

H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Ketch said:
Well.... it's not wasted. We know a whole lots more about helix.
Click to expand...
Hahaha true.

And it will be easy enough to confirm that the research was meaningless (i.e. that this is a real factor). But we're not gonna do the metrics we did last night for every arm for every character hahahaha.. we'll never play the actual game again.

If I understand this Arm Girth dealy correctly...

Per character, arm (the weapon) travel speed won't vary... but arm (the... arm) size means that the time needed to reach max distance will vary... which means recovery time will vary.

...which means that potential damage output will vary, and rush meter gain rate will vary.

This is supported with testing here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ARMS/comme...sh_attack_guide_and_reference_to_all/djaicej/

Also just came across by accident, the max charge duration (if you hold down charge for the "full charge" animation) varies per character: https://www.reddit.com/r/ARMS/comments/6dxnhg/characters_have_different_arms_charge_times/

Mechanica and... Helix ಠ_ಠ are tied for best in game, discounting Min Min's left arm.

hmmm. yeah I'm just going to say it: this is deep as fuck. There are so many variables I didn't know about when I first started playing I can't believe it.
Poltergust said:
Sheesh, no wonder Kid Cobra is considered amazing. He has max stats on everything that matters when his ARMS are charged.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Lucifer's build makes a whole lot of sense whether he knew it or not.

Also, on that chart, Min Min's left arm... arm girth.. increases to near max in dragon form, it's shown very subtley.
kewlmyc said:
Are those real? Just bought the game and was planning on using Min min, but she seems to have bad stats in everything when not using the dragon. Or am I reading it incorrectly?
Click to expand...
They are real, but you are kinda reading it incorrectly.

Small size is GOOD- that's your hitbox.

Dragon doens't mean the Dragon weapon- when she does a dash charge, her left arm turns INTO a chinese dragon, and is permanently charged, and gains girth.


...I do not like this term, girth.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
So a higher arm girth means:

-Less distance for the ARM weapon to travel, and therefore less meter gain per punch.
-Faster recovery time to retract the ARM weapon.
-Larger ARM weapon size.

Did I get that right? I think arm girth can also affect the hurtbox of the arms themselves so that glancing blows are easier to land on characters with higher arm girth. It makes sense, at least.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Hawkian said:
this is deep as fuck.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. My whole global cooldown Rock Paper Scissors Punch Dash Jump theory is so far off the mark that it's hilariously sad how bad I am at the game.

So we can admit it's got depth.... now, the bigger question: Is it balanced?

Question for Gore, and maybe you need to spill the beans a bit, but why isn't everyone running double poppers helix? I haven't seen anything that looks as strong. Can you explain specifically why it's not the best?

Poltergust said:
So a higher arm girth means:

-Less distance for the ARM weapon to travel, and therefore less meter gain per punch.
-Faster recovery time to retract the ARM weapon.
-Larger ARM weapon size.

Did I get that right? I think arm girth can also affect the hurtbox of the arms themselves so that glancing blows are easier to land on characters with higher arm girth. It makes sense, at least.
Click to expand...

No, more arm girth means arms travel faster. Same distance. Same weapon size. Not sure about recovery. It just means that master mummy punches faster then ninjara. But that's okay because he's way bigger and can't move as much. The implication is that certain arms would be better for him then ninjara... i.e. Megatons. Or at least he doesn't suffer the downsides of heavy arms as much. Which is all very logical, but now we know for sure why.... which, looking at the stats, helps you think about what other character and arms combos might be good.
 
B

BravesCountry

Banned
Golgo 13 said:
Need some friendly advice on if I should get this game.

I've been playing fighting games since Street Fighter 2 in arcades but have really burned out on all the recent output from Capcom (SF5 characters did nothing for me, any of them, and that's what I need to feel connected to a fighting game -- a character I love), and never really cared for Mortal Kombat/Netherrealms style of play. Probably put 500 hours into the last fighting game I played (Super SSF4) and I'm not adverse to the genre. I'm just worried I'll find this game gimmicky and get bored quickly.

Do you guys think I should give it a shot? I just want something really fresh and appealing -- something to rekindle my love for the genre.
Click to expand...

I can't compare to other fighting games because I haven't played any, but if you are going to fall in love with a character it will be mostly because of their design, because they don't have much backstory if at all. Check out the designs of the characters etc., they do play pretty uniquely from each other which I think helps in falling in love with specific characters.

Also as a sidenote, I am loving all the incredible nuances that people are finding that can affect playstyle and character selection. People are discovering cool new shit every day like the tap jump to charge or recovery time on different arm girths. That's just cool.
 
M

Moondrop

Banned
Hawkian said:
If I understand this Arm Girth dealy correctly...

Per character, arm (the weapon) travel speed won't vary... but arm (the... arm) size means that the time needed to reach max distance will vary... which means recovery time will vary.
Click to expand...
Not to call you out but this is imprecise language. If you're saying "weapon travel speed" = constant but "time to reach max distance" = f(arm girth), then I must conclude that the changes in duration are all built into the initial wind-up animation. Otherwise the projectile must change in speed. Not convinced we've reached the bottom of girthiness yet.

Hawkian said:
...I do not like this term, girth.
Click to expand...
Won't Nintendo please think of the children again.
 
T

TeegsD

Member
Saw that Yabuki said that motion controls are a must. Yabuki has spoken, and now I must obey. I'll continue my GP 5 run using motion later and undoubtedly get my ass kicked.

Im interested in what top players here use? Like what controls does Gore use?
 
M

MDave

Member
TeegsD said:
Saw that Yabuki said that motion controls are a must. Yabuki has spoken, and now I must obey. I'll continue my GP 5 run using motion later and undoubtedly get my ass kicked.

Im interested in what top players here use? Like what controls does Gore use?
Click to expand...

Handheld mode. I wonder if the reduced latency (input and display latency) make a difference when playing in that mode, as there should be close to zero on that setup :p
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Poltergust said:
So a higher arm girth means:

-Less distance for the ARM weapon to travel, and therefore less meter gain per punch.
-Faster recovery time to retract the ARM weapon.
-Larger ARM weapon size.

Did I get that right? I think arm girth can also affect the hurtbox of the arms themselves so that glancing blows are easier to land on characters with higher arm girth. It makes sense, at least.
Click to expand...

More girth means I'm pretty sure:

-More Meter per punch, perhaps more distance to travel
-Likely a fast recovery to offset this
-Larger size

Judging by what Lucifer does. Kid Cobra has ARMS with more girth by default AND he uses Bubb to build a ton of meter.

Ketch said:
My thoughts exactly. My whole global cooldown Rock Paper Scissors Punch Dash Jump theory is so far off the mark that it's hilariously sad how bad I am at the game.

So we can admit it's got depth.... now, the bigger question: Is it balanced?

Question for Gore, and maybe you need to spill the beans a bit, but why isn't everyone running double poppers helix? I haven't seen anything that looks as strong. Can you explain specifically why it's not the best?
Click to expand...

As I stated before, the poppers build rush but not as much as a Lucifer build plus it relies on my enemies to rush me and to hopefully take damage while doing so, so if someone Like Lucifer hangs back and does the same he'all definitely get rush long before me and at least forces me on to offensive.

Bubbs in general make it much easier to hit people and stop incoming attacks. I also have issues with Min Min and that *infuriating* dragon arm. They're either destroyed by me or destroy me, there's no in between.

Crap, that means I'll have to do AT LEAST 540 more tests to get both different types of punches per minute per character for every arm, and here I thought 60 tests with Helix tower mode would encompass everything..
 
P

Poltergust

Member
I seriously need an answer to this:

Poltergust said:
I just saw this in the Conan O'Brian thread.

...What's a turn punch?
Click to expand...

Throughout all of my time playing, one thing that has been consistent is that I can never keep my opponent in my line of fire when I attempt to counterattack after they whiff a punch. I dodge to the side, throw a straight punch... and completely miss my target because my character doesn't keep their eyes on the opponent after dodging, even if they haven't moved! It's especially bad at close-quarters.

Yet, against human players and the AI, they always find a way to outflank me. Even when I should be in an advantageous position I keep completely whiffing them and getting hit in return. Like, for example, when I attempt to do air-grabs I aim at the floor in front of my opponent, or when I'm trying to counter an air-grab my punches always go below the grab hitbox (yet my air-grabs, when they do home in on people correctly, almost always get counterattacked).

I have to be missing something here. I always assumed that characters always lock on to their opponent, but after playing for some time I can't imagine that to be the case anymore.

Another thing that's been giving me trouble is close-quarters dodging. I see my opponents basically strafe around me in circles all the time, yet I can never do the same. When I dodge to the side, I don't strafe, I just dodge to the left or right. What gives?
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Poltergust said:
No, more girth means less distance and less meter gain. The Reddit post with the Ninjara/Master Mummy comparison clearly showed that.

EDIT: Crap, double post. :<
Click to expand...

This does no align with my experience, if this were true Lucifer's tactic would be bad but it's so effective he set all three arms as Bubb (though it's still beatable).
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Poltergust said:
https://gfycat.com/CooperativeCoordinatedBunny

https://gfycat.com/IcyAltruisticAsianpiedstarling
Click to expand...

Saw it, while you may be right about the actual travel speed, the recovery appears faster on Mummy, as in it comes back faster. This could affect overall speed since recovery is a huge factor in punches per minute. Regardless I'm not sure about the meter gain, I use Helix Poppers and Lucifer used Cobra Bubb and while I get one or two rushes a round he gets two or three, overall getting them first and faster.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
Saw it, while you may be right about the actual travel speed, the recovery appears faster on Mummy, as in it comes back faster. This could affect overall speed since recovery is a huge factor in punches per minute. Regardless I'm not sure about the meter gain, I use Helix Poppers and Lucifer used Cobra Bubb and while I get one or two rushes a round he gets two or three.
Click to expand...

Um, I never disputed recovery speed, just the meter gain and distance. More arm girth = less distance and meter gain.

Travel speed is actually exactly the same regardless of arm girth.
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Poltergust said:
Um, I never disputed recovery speed, just the meter gain and distance. More arm girth = less distance and meter gain.

Travel speed is actually exactly the same regardless of arm girth.
Click to expand...

I'll concede on the distance but I'm not convinced about the argument bigger arms give less rush.

I mean just in theory, if that were true that would SUCK for a megaton user

I think there's a mix at play. Maybe Cobra has larger arms compared to most but not as bad as Mummy so it's somewhat in a sweet spot where it builds meter fast, is speedy, and large
 
M

Moondrop

Banned
Poltergust said:
More arm girth = less distance and meter gain.

Travel speed is actually exactly the same regardless of arm girth.
Click to expand...
I can't wrap my head around this. How can an increased cylinder diameter equal less distance between players, when distance is effectively the height of the cylinder? Are you saying that the hitbox at the end of the arm is getting bigger?
 
P

Poltergust

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
I'll concede on the distance but I'm not convinced about the argument bigger arms give less rush.

I mean just in theory, if that were true that would SUCK for a megaton user

I think there's a mix at play. Maybe Cobra has larger arms compared to most but not as bad as Mummy so it's somewhat in a sweet spot where it builds meter fast, is speedy, and large
Click to expand...

???

I'm talking about arm girth, which is completely independent of the ARMS a character equips. Yes, Master Mummy builds meter slower than other characters, but a Megaton would build more of meter compared to most other ARMS with one punch because it's slow and, therefore, builds meter for a longer period of time.

I'm not even talking about heavy ARMS here, anyways. o_O
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Poltergust said:
???

I'm talking about arm girth, which is completely independent of the ARMS a character equips. Yes, Master Mummy builds meter slower than other characters, but a Megaton would build more of meter compared to most other ARMS with one punch because it's slow and, therefore, builds meter for a longer period of time.

I'm not even talking about heavy ARMS here, anyways. o_O
Click to expand...

Didn't people proof that that more girth gave more meter?

Regardless for example a Bubb on Ribbon is smaller than on Cobra. On Cobra a Bubb would be larger and overall relatively similar in speed, and since it's bigger it would gain more rush with double Bubb than Ribbon could
 
K

Ketch

Member
Poltergust said:
That's not the point of those GIFs. It's a comparison of distance, meter gain, and recovery time.

Hard numbers back this up. Ninjara builds full meter with less punches than Master Mummy.
Click to expand...

How can you use those gifs to compare Punch distance when they're not the same distance away from the target? Or meter gain when one character already has full meter?


Where are you getting arms travel the same speed regardless of girth? Or that more girth means less distance?
 
P

Poltergust

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
Didn't people proof that that more girth gave more meter?

Regardless for example a Bubb on Ribbon is smaller than on Cobra. On Cobra a Bubb would be larger and overall relatively similar in speed, and since it's bigger it would gain more rush with double Bubb than Ribbon could
Click to expand...

I don't remember anyone doing that. This Reddit post contradicts that:

Both arms are punched on the same frame, but Mummy's increased arm size makes it reach max distance sooner and retract faster. This means Mummy can block sooner, but has the downside of requiring more punches for him to build a full rush meter. Mummy needs 22 uncharged Triblast punches, while Ninjara only needs 19.
Click to expand...

Ketch said:
How can you use those gifs to compare Punch distance when they're not the same distance away from the target? Or meter gain when one character already has full meter?
Click to expand...

Because they travel at the same speed, yet Master Mummy retracts his faster, meaning it travels less.

And meter gain is answered by the above Reddit quote.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Poltergust said:
I don't remember anyone doing that. This Reddit post contradicts that:





Because they travel at the same speed, yet Master Mummy retracts his faster, meaning it travels less.

And meter gain is answered by the above Reddit quote.
Click to expand...


They don't travel at the same speed. Master mummy retracts first because his arm reaches max distance first because his arm travels faster (which is why he gets less meter) because he has more girth.
 
G

Glitchesarecool

Member
Terrible_Majesty said:
Bunch of players dropping matches rage quitters. Should be a penalty or at least coins given to those who drop matches
Click to expand...

I've actually been getting a bunch of disconnect errors lately just in general, so it might not all be rage quitters.

ARMS does need a dedicated forefit option though, I really don't want to waste my time in 3-for-all or in a 2v1 matchup after my partner dies.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
Ketch said:
They don't travel at the same speed. Master mummy retracts first because his arm reaches max distance first because his arm travels faster (which is why he gets less meter) because he has more girth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, looking at it one more time, I guess you're right.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
I've no idea what's good in this game but I've been spamming Byte and Barq. He seems fairly one dimensional so I imagine he'll be a lower tier character. I've fumbled my way to Rank 6 by jumping on Barq all day. What's a good rank in this game? I find Min Min players the most difficult so far.

Is there a GAF party room?
 
Q

QuixoticNeutral

Member
Just took my Ranked setup on a test drive through GP 5. I'm probably just improving at the game, ever so slightly, as it didn't feel any different than GP 4: I needed one rematch with Mechanica at the start as I had trouble closing in on her before the timeout, but it was smooth sailing from there. There were a few 2-1s, but they mostly came down to missing critical punches that I had a huge opportunity to land, or (as Min Min) overcommitting to charging the left arm when it wasn't safe. You have to be prepared to drop that the moment you see something coming.

This time I used the replay feature after many of my matches, mostly to step through them and take a few nice screenshots. The overhead view on the camera is quite useful. During the E3 exhibition matches I didn't like it at all as a spectator perspective, as I wanted the behind-the-back view to see what the players were reading and how they were reacting. But for the benefit of personal improvement, the overhead camera exposes a lot about your positioning (whether you're too far to land your punches with certain arms, for one) and helps you gauge distance in relation to stage features like lines or insignias on the floor. I find that I have a great deal of trouble assessing depth and distance in the standard behind-the-back view, a problem I've always had with many 3D games, and in Arms this led me to a habit of standing a little too far back—good for defending, but not great for landing hits, and vulnerable to an opponent who backs you against the wall. Estimating how close you are to your opponent happens to be rather important.
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
This game is great but 3-for-all is the most godawful fucking mode I've ever played in a fighting game, I just put down the controller when it starts at this point. I ALWAYS get matched with some moron who does nothing but go after me while the other guy teams up with him or hides in a corner, and of course I'm usually on a win streak so my health is already lower than everyone else anyway.
 
K

Kaban

Member
This is seriously a great party game when you have a group of friends. We were playing it last night and people were constantly switching in and out to have a go, and it seems like everyone picked up on it quite quickly.

We even came up with a new 2v2 mode, where 2 players played as a one character, with each controlling an individual arm. Of course, you had to coordinate when to block, grab and change direction. We called this variation 'ARM'.
 
K

Ketch

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153496878

Lucifer shows up at 6:18. He's the reason I throughout believe bigger arms give you more rush.

His style doesn't have much explanation otherwise.
Click to expand...

It's based on the amount of time the arms are extended. So slower arms at longer range give more rush meter because they spend more time in the extended state. But theoretically you could make up for it with faster arms firing more often.... but that doesn't seem to be the case then if you're both filling every frame with extended arms, you using poppers him using bubbs. So maybe it is a mechanic to discourage spamming fast attacks?
 
A

AquaWateria

Member
The more I'm watching these rank 15 fights the more i believe this game is really fun to watch.

I think its because its really different than your traditional fighting games.

Or maybe its because I love watching gundam matches.
 
D

Doorman

Member
My stance on free-for-all so far is that it's not a good real competitive mode but it can be fun IF all three players know what they're doing and play with similar strategy i.e. don't let any one person hang back and keep a big life-lead.

Had a round yesterday where a Ninjara just would not stop trying to grab me and only me, meanwhile Mummy got to hang back, heal, and take potshots at us both. Surprise surprise, as soon as they finally combined to take me out, the Ninjara was so weakened that Mummy mopped him up easily. Good work there, Ninja buddy. Good tactics.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
I just can't beat the boss at the end of the level 4 grand prix. Ugh. I can sometimes win a match, but I'm honestly just having so much trouble trying to dodge.
 
D

Durden77

Member
Just figured out today I can dash and punch at the same time ans you get this kind of slide punch thing. I'm sure it's already been discovered here, but it's great for Spring Man because he can get so many shockwaves.

Still rocking Spring Man with two boxing gloves (Toaster, Chilla), too afraid to try the crazier arms. I tried Buff and didn't really like it as much
 
R

random25

Member
I'm almost at rank 13...but jeez all these rank 15 fighters are coming right after another lol. Good thing they don't bump down my meter that much when I lose.
 
K

Kebiinu

Banned
Finally beat GP6, and I must say the hardest match, wasn't even a match, it was target bullshit vs Mechanica. Had to switch ARMS until I found one that worked. Excellent GP though, and the AI is not cheap at all.
 
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