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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire

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H

hengyu

Member
https://www.inverse.com/article/158...off-johns-lays-out-the-company-s-path-forward

“Let’s say you’ve been given the position of writing Green Arrow from scratch,” he posits, rhetorically. “Clean slate. You might say, ‘Okay, I’m going to write this new character,’ and when someone says, ‘Well, what about Black Canary,’ you might say… ‘nope.’ That means you completely misunderstand these characters.”
Click to expand...

You know you've screwed up big time when the Chief Creative Officer of DC is basically saying that you've completely misunderstood the characters you're adapting. Poor Guggie.
 
J

Joni

Member
Johns equally says DC needs more relationships, so Guggenheim is listening.

Following up on Green Arrow Rebirth:

When I took over Green Arrow with issue #41, one of the things I wanted to do was place Canary in the series eventually. I'm so glad this Rebirth opportunity came up, because I wasn't allowed to put her in there right away, but I'd hoped that this moment would come. So I was cycling Oliver through all of these different relationships so that when Black Canary came into the fray again, the relationship would matter. That the reader could understand this is what he's been pining for.
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Interesting to hear the writer wasn't allowed to bring in Canary until now

Makes me also wonder if it is maybe time to jump in to DC Comics with the Rebirth.
 
D

dglavimans

Member
Finally watched the finale. Just 16 episodes of LoT to go and Supergirl before the new seasons hit. This season was okay. What bottered me about the finale was how Dark was still human and cared for his child, but wants to blow up the whole world..

watching whole seasons at once for me is much better, with the Flash I already had seen all the episodes so got to wait a week for the next one, when an episode is not that good... I can get the hate in this thread
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Joni said:
Johns equally says DC needs more relationships, so Guggenheim is listening.

Following up on Green Arrow Rebirth:



Interesting to hear the writer wasn't allowed to bring in Canary until now

Makes me also wonder if it is maybe time to jump in to DC Comics with the Rebirth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd say now is probably the best time to get into DC.

Green Arrow looks to be on solid ground and has the potential to be one of the best relaunches.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
hengyu said:
https://www.inverse.com/article/158...off-johns-lays-out-the-company-s-path-forward



You know you've screwed up big time when the Chief Creative Officer of DC is basically saying that you've completely misunderstood the characters you're adapting. Poor Guggie.
Click to expand...

Meh. THat's awfully disrespectful to GA as a character to suggests he can't work on his own. You're bassically relegating him to sidekick.

The very best run of Green Arrow ever made doesn't have Black Canary as superhero and merely handles her as civilian love interest.

Now, I did love the first issue of Rebirth and what Percy did to Black Canary has been great. But the comicbook is called Green Arrow, not Black Canary starring Green Arrow. After a while she needs to fade into the background, at least as far as superheroics go.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Joni said:
Johns equally says DC needs more relationships, so Guggenheim is listening.
Click to expand...

Guggenheim didn't get what relationships mean in DC universe. That they're used to strenghten the characters, give them support and will to fight. The relationship drama he puts out makes the characters questions their actions, it weakens their resolve. Which is the direct opposite of what should be happening.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
KonradLaw said:
Guggenheim didn't get what relationships mean in DC universe. That they're used to strenghten the characters, give them support and will to fight. The relationship drama he puts out makes the characters questions their actions, it weakens their resolve. Which is the direct opposite of what should be happening.
Click to expand...

Oliver was raped by shado in the comics, Batman fathered a child unbeknownst and without consent,...
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Oliver was raped by shado in the comics, Batman fathered a child unbeknownst and without consent,...
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Yeah and if you're going to go on negative side of relation ship drama this is also the way to do it.
Superhero are stories that are inherently exagarated. They are more epic than normal action stories, the stakes are usually higher, the skillsets beyond what action heroes can handle too.

Which is why if you want to have romance plots it also needs to be like this. Either it's the greatest unshakable love you ever could imagine or it's incredible drama full of backstabing and vile crap. This is what Green Arrow and Batman do in comics. This is even what Arrow did in S1 with Huntress or S2 with Shado.

What doesn't work is trying to put realistic romance drama into a story with exagarated people and exagarated stakes. Because there it just feels like silly bullshit. When you're dealing with lives of thousands or even millions carying if somebody wasn't honest in about some ordinary stuff in relationship is just beyond petty. It makes the character feel like egoistical self centered pricks.

Simply put if you want drama from romance then that drama needs be more epic to match the tone of the rest of the plot. Otherwise it's like if you were making a show about doctors operating on wounded soldiers in the middle of the warzone and have big subplot about guy's problem with thinning hair.
 
J

Joni

Member
Spoiler Time! Wendy Miracle speaks!

In addition to casting Oliver's unpredictable/"charming" new adversary, Season 5 will also introduce the recurring role of a cocksure/reckless ex-Marine turned vigilante. And as for Oliver's stint as mayor, showrunner Wendy Mericle has said that as with DC Comics' Batman, "City Hall, that institution, is crucial to our series." But it just might be that the big draw will be meaningful flashbacks, as Oliver fulfills his promise to Taiana (you know, the girl from the island). "It's a very good possibility that we'll finally find out how he got that Bratva tattoo and how he learned to speak Russian," says Mericle. "When Oliver says, 'No one can know my secret' and he kills that guy in the pilot, we're going to get some insight into that."
Click to expand...

KonradLaw said:
Guggenheim didn't get what relationships mean in DC universe. That they're used to strenghten the characters, give them support and will to fight.
Click to expand...
It is easy to see these elements in the show, as well as the opposite in the comics.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I want a season long flashback that is just a stretched out version of Predator. Someone hunting Oliver during his last year on the island, and him fighting to survive. But I guess him bopping around in Russia and then coming back to the island 5 minutes before he gets rescued is fine too... 😐
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
I want a season long flashback that is just a stretched out version of Predator. Someone hunting Oliver during his last year on the island, and him fighting to survive. But I guess him bopping around in Russia and then coming back to the island 5 minutes before he gets rescued is fine too... 😐
Click to expand...

This season didn't feel like a whole year on the island. And honestly, Oliver was a fricking mess when he got back from the island. THey will ignore it, won't they?
 
P

Plasticine

Member
hengyu said:
https://www.inverse.com/article/158...off-johns-lays-out-the-company-s-path-forward

You know you've screwed up big time when the Chief Creative Officer of DC is basically saying that you've completely misunderstood the characters you're adapting. Poor Guggie.
Click to expand...

Geoff Johns doesn't understand what a clean slate means. But that's not surprising. If your job is to create a character named the Green Arrow from the ground up, why do you have to recreate the past? The new Green Arrow you're creating is not the old Green Arrow, thus you're not misunderstanding shit. You're creating your vision, the way you deem necessary.

That said, there's no reason Black Canary can't be re-introduced in Arrow. I mean, Felicity is the love of Ollie's life. Might as well give the nerds what they want.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
KonradLaw said:
This season didn't feel like a whole year on the island. And honestly, Oliver was a fricking mess when he got back from the island. THey will ignore it, won't they?
Click to expand...

This season worth of flashbacks had to have been a couple days at most, right? The last set of them are probably all within a few hours. When Oliver was hired on by Ryder and when he ran off with Tiana(?) are the only times I think any larger amounts of time passed.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
KonradLaw said:
This season didn't feel like a whole year on the island. And honestly, Oliver was a fricking mess when he got back from the island. THey will ignore it, won't they?
Click to expand...

Well if you read the spoiler comments from Mericle posted above,
they intend to address it.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
KonradLaw said:
Meh. THat's awfully disrespectful to GA as a character to suggests he can't work on his own. You're bassically relegating him to sidekick.

The very best run of Green Arrow ever made doesn't have Black Canary as superhero and merely handles her as civilian love interest.

Now, I did love the first issue of Rebirth and what Percy did to Black Canary has been great. But the comicbook is called Green Arrow, not Black Canary starring Green Arrow. After a while she needs to fade into the background, at least as far as superheroics go.
Click to expand...

Na,
Same way Batman without Gordon and Alfred doesn't work or Catwoman.
Heck I hardly enjoy Batman without his sidekicks as well at this point.
 
J

Jorok Goldblade

Member
New info on the Season 5 villain:

http://www.newsarama.com/29596-repo...red-by-idris-elba-hbo-s-the-wire-aquaman.html

When the CW's Arrow returns for its fifth season this fall, it's new primary villain will be inspired by Idris Elba's character Stringer Bell in HBO's The Wire with the physical presence of Jason Momoa, according to TVLine. The character is reportedly named 'Anton Church,' however the online Hollywood trade says the name is tentative. Church is described as a "ruthless crime lord who sets out to fill the sizable void left by Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E."

Jason Momoa is described as the "physical prototype" for the role, without mentioning the fact that he's playing Aquaman in the un-connected DC movies produced by Warner Bros.

The CW has not revealed the premiere date of Arrow's fifth season.
Click to expand...
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
ZeroX03 said:
Word is this villain won't be meta/enhanced.
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That would be nice. I figured that Brick was Arrow's attempt to combine Blockbuster and Brick from the comics. Now that I think about it, what was Brick's deal in Arrow? Did they ever definitively state that he was a metahuman?
 
J

Jorok Goldblade

Member
I'm thinking the new villain could be a Damien Dahrk scenario- building a largely original character over the bones of a minor comic character.

The rival vigilante character almost sounds like Red Hood if "ex Marine" is a casting code word for "ex sidekick," but he's probably tied up in a Bat embargo.

ZeroX03 said:
Word is this villain won't be meta/enhanced.
Click to expand...

Amell said he didn't think the villain had powers, but it wasn't a hard no.
 
J

Joni

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
That would be nice. I figured that Brick was Arrow's attempt to combine Blockbuster and Brick from the comics. Now that I think about it, what was Brick's deal in Arrow? Did they ever definitively state that he was a metahuman?
Click to expand...
He has no powers, I assume he just had a metal plate in his skull. It was easy to hurt his body.
 
J

Joni

Member
I love what an ass slade is in the first season. Oliver tried to make fire for an hour and then he helps by taking out his lighter.
 
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