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[rjc571]

Yeah, sorry cats, but the battery thing has killed the game for me. Just feels to disconnected from what's happening with the rest of the game, and seems artificially massaged in the drop rate. I'm sure it's not, but it feels arbitrary and capricious in function, if not design.

It's tough. So much of this game feels top shelf. Great control, weapon balance, I even dig the cutesy design of the androids. It all feels like this great open score attack shooter, but then the designers said "But we want you to play this way, sucka" and threw in the battery mechanic.

The battery mode really feels more like something that should be in an endless survival mode or alternate game mode.

Sorry for being so negative. I only say this because the game even at this stage is 95% exactly what I love and look for, but the last little bitter piece leaves me feeling irritated and not wanting to play again, not challenged and ready to give it another go.

I played the demo yesterday and I agree with this. The rest of the game is great but the battery mechanic is infuriating. It seems like battery pickups only get dropped when your battery is just about to run out, and I died a few times when the battery ran out an instant before I was about to absorb a battery pickup. This really ruined the game for me.

 

[Paz]

Yeah, sorry cats, but the battery thing has killed the game for me. Just feels to disconnected from what's happening with the rest of the game, and seems artificially massaged in the drop rate. I'm sure it's not, but it feels arbitrary and capricious in function, if not design.

It's tough. So much of this game feels top shelf. Great control, weapon balance, I even dig the cutesy design of the androids. It all feels like this great open score attack shooter, but then the designers said "But we want you to play this way, sucka" and threw in the battery mechanic.

The battery mode really feels more like something that should be in an endless survival mode or alternate game mode.

Sorry for being so negative. I only say this because the game even at this stage is 95% exactly what I love and look for, but the last little bitter piece leaves me feeling irritated and not wanting to play again, not challenged and ready to give it another go.

Sorry you feel that way mate, the battery system is very much at the core of our games mechanics so I can see how it would be make or break if you're really not in to it.

We wanted to make a high energy & intense shoot em up and the battery is used to enforce that experience, if you're running out of battery the only solution is to become more reckless and aggressive in order to attain it. It circumvents a lot of problems that a traditional arena based shmup where they often struggle with pacing and boring/uninteresting dominant strategies.

Hopefully you find another more traditional shmup that scratches that itch for you, or you find a way to get in to the groove of what Cactus is all about.

 

[wilflare]

Okok, it will be a toggle



The weapon mechanics are pretty tightly balanced right now for score attacking & difficulty purposes, keep an eye on your characters feet although we're thinking about what kind of effects could signify a full charge

I think maybe the soundtrack stuff is a bit out of our scope sorry There will be more music in the full game though, currently worlds 3/4/5 are lacking their own music and the bosses for these worlds will also have unique music.

We like direct communication too!

I like it when they toss the gun! Can we have like some smoke effects when they overheat? It'll be awesome!

Effects when it's fully charged? Maybe some particle effects (similar to the Acceleration Powerup... Instead of yellow maybe some other generic color. A short burst of aura -think DBZ!-)

Mmm on Powerup design! Maybe for extra powerup can they be mini-androids too? Give them some personality like those digital pets thingum in Phantasy Star Online! Growing your pet into different weapons will be cool too!

 

[Liamario]

I'm not the best to answer character design questions but I like to think we're more late 90's/Dreamcast era in our aesthetics, sorry they put you off so much

I'm not a particular fan of the design, but it certainly hasn't put me off. They're starting to grow on me to be honest

 

[Twinduct]

Paz, first off congrats to you & Sycle on the (early)release. Really enjoyed the demo!
Holding off to a more final release before I buy. Double dipping with the PS versions aswell!

Really hope online co-op becomes a reality down the line, sadly I'm pretty reclusive, so won't really have a chance to play this couch setup anytime soon.

(Although there is a higher chance of this happening once it's on PS4)

 

[wilflare]

Paz, first off congrats to you & Sycle on the (early)release. Really enjoyed the demo!
Holding off to a more final release before I buy. Double dipping with the PS versions aswell!

Really hope online co-op becomes a reality down the line, sadly I'm pretty reclusive, so won't really have a chance to play this couch setup anytime soon.

(Although there is a higher chance of this happening once it's on PS4)

Twinduct, this may just be the first game we play together once online co-op gets added in.

 

[Twinduct]

Twinduct, this may just be the first game we play together once online co-op gets added in.

Lol .. funny how we've just ignored every other game that does have it

 

[Himself]

Man, I am so looking forward to playing this when it drops on a console. I'm glad to hear about the difficulty and the battery mechanic sounds interesting.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Hnnnnng, this looks amazing, getting it!

it may be a bit early, but may I ask what controller options you have planned for the co-op version on wii u? (please say classic controller as well as pro...)

 

[bequietdrive]

Another great 4 player Co-op eshop game on Wii U? Day one.

 

[Paz]

Hnnnnng, this looks amazing, getting it!

it may be a bit early, but may I ask what controller options you have planned for the co-op version on wii u? (please say classic controller as well as pro...)

We want to support both wiimote+nunchuck as a replacement for KB/M (wiimote acting as a reticule pointer) and both the official twin stick controllers.

 

[Fireblend]

I've played through the demo twice now

pretty hard to resist not to get the full thing on early-access, but I really think I'd rather wait to play the full product once it's released. Some comments/questions, since you seem pretty open to them:

• Character design is great, specially after reading your "Dreamcast-like characters" comment. You totally nailed it!
• I do need some kind of either visual or audio cue for when my special weapon is charged. Many times I've forgotten to use it throughout an entire stage simply because I forgot it was there. If there is one, then I'm not seeing/hearing it. The gauge in the floor is a bad indicator since I'm mostly looking at what I'm shooting, not my character.
• Are the arenas in the demo representative of the biggest arenas we'll see in the game? I'd love huge arenas/levels that you'd have to move through to get to the end. I get that might not be your vision of the game though as it doesn't fit the definition of a classic arena shmup, but the size of the current stages make me worry for 4-player MP being too crowded.
• Does the enemy count scale with number of players, or does the game just get easier?
• Now for a powerup idea, how about a "ghost" powerup that makes you invisible and makes the enemies disoriented/shoot in the wrong directions?

Anyway, congrats! I'm really looking forward to the full thing can't wait to play the co-op with my gf this weekend. (that can be done in the demo, right?)

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wshing there was online co-op but it's pretty fun.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

We want to support both wiimote+nunchuck as a replacement for KB/M (wiimote acting as a reticule pointer) and both the official twin stick controllers.

good stuff!

 

[Paz]

I've played through the demo twice now

pretty hard to resist not to get the full thing on early-access, but I really think I'd rather wait to play the full product once it's released. Some comments/questions, since you seem pretty open to them:

• Character design is great, specially after reading your "Dreamcast-like characters" comment. You totally nailed it!
• I do need some kind of either visual or audio cue for when my special weapon is charged. Many times I've forgotten to use it throughout an entire stage simply because I forgot it was there. If there is one, then I'm not seeing/hearing it. The gauge in the floor is a bad indicator since I'm mostly looking at what I'm shooting, not my character.
• Are the arenas in the demo representative of the biggest arenas we'll see in the game? I'd love huge arenas/levels that you'd have to move through to get to the end. I get that might not be your vision of the game though as it doesn't fit the definition of a classic arena shmup, but the size of the current stages make me worry for 4-player MP being too crowded.
• Does the enemy count scale with number of players, or does the game just get easier?
• Now for a powerup idea, how about a "ghost" powerup that makes you invisible and makes the enemies disoriented/shoot in the wrong directions?

Anyway, congrats! I'm really looking forward to the full thing can't wait to play the co-op with my gf this weekend. (that can be done in the demo, right?)

Not that I'm trying to sell you or anything but it's not like the Early Access won't get updated as we go, and you get the full version too

1. Thanks!
2. Yep, I agree there could (and should) be a stronger feedback for full secondary charge.
3. There are a few larger arenas that you travel through, but they are the exception not the rule (one is in the early access build called 'Checkpoint'). Enemy count scales with each new player, we have some careful balancing to do since the arena size stays the same but it basically gets more hectic with more opportunity for good weapon use.
4. Interesting, I suppose it would give you basically free reign of things for a while? The blue powerup currently triggers a significant invulnerability period & health recharge so it's in a similar space, I'll think on it.

Demo has full co-op, have fun But not so much fun you don't grab the full game some time

 

[Fireblend]

Not that I'm trying to sell you or anything but it's not like the Early Access won't get updated as we go, and you get the full version too

1. Thanks!
2. Yep, I agree there could (and should) be a stronger feedback for full secondary charge.
3. There are a few larger arenas that you travel through, but they are the exception not the rule (one is in the early access build called 'Checkpoint'). Enemy count scales with each new player, we have some careful balancing to do since the arena size stays the same but it basically gets more hectic with more opportunity for good weapon use.
4. Interesting, I suppose it would give you basically free reign of things for a while? The blue powerup currently triggers a significant invulnerability period & health recharge so it's in a similar space, I'll think on it.

Demo has full co-op, have fun But not so much fun you don't grab the full game some time

Oh, I'm grabbing the game for sure, and I know getting the early access version will get me the full copy too. It's just that if I grab the early access build now, me and my gf might play through it a couple of times, and then by the time it's out don't bother with it or don't be as excited about it since we already played it. That's just how I am, I have a terrible backlog issue I have no problem with the early access scheme itself, but it's just not for me. I want to have a fresh and complete experience with the full release

And yeah, the shutdown powerup is already similar to what I proposed, it's just that since some of the enemies look so much like stuff I'd see in Ghost in the Shell, androids being able to turn invisible like they do on GitS just makes sense

 

[wilflare]

It'll be interesting to give the enemies a little more personality.

Think Metal Gear Solid! So when you activate certain power-ups, things like "?" Or "!!!" Will pop-up above them to highlight confusion/disorientation and etc

 

[Mr Nash]

Played a bunch more last night, and Holly usually suits me best. Her secondary weapon is devastating. Just kite enemies into a line, turn around, and shoot. You can wipe out a ton of baddies doing that. Still trying to figure out how to get higher than rank C on Embryo, though. Usually I use big chains to rack up my score and boost my rank, but that isn't really an option with him.

I quite like the battery function, as it adds more tension to the game. From what I can tell, they seem to drop at a certain point in new waves, so I've found playing aggressive really helps as it kills stuff faster, forcing the drop sooner, and I'm not left in a precarious situation where my battery is almost drained.

 

[rookiejet]

Does anybody else find themselve throwing a peace sign and grinning like an idiot in tandem with Cactus at the end of every level?

 

[michaelius]

Finally played the steam demo - it feels like I'm back in Amiga times again with pure arcade like fun- waiting for Vita/PS4 version is going to be long.

 

[rookiejet]

I'm conflicted about two things, both concerning the battery: (1) it dropping too far away from me to reach it in time; and (2) the spawning of the next wave waiting on that last enemy tucked away at some corner of the map, and again not having enough battery to reach it in time (the enemy radar markers help mitigate that, but it's still annoying).

If the new wave spawned on two remaining enemies instead of one, perhaps that would make it feel less cheap. Also, spawn the battery closer to the player, and make it more magnetic. Heck, why not just make it a direct charge refill as opposed to a pickup? I don't think it would reduce the tension as much as it would the feeling cheated.

How do you all feel about the battery pickups?

EDIT: I've since learned to prioritize keeping the kill chain and its meter from running out over the battery and keeping its meter from running out. Now I find I play more aggressively than I used. I've also better internalized how far and how fast I need to zoom around certain enemies while still be safe, and learned which enemies die quicker such I have a better handle on maintaining the kill chain.

I'm definitely enjoying it more now, and I'm less annoyed when a battery spawns too far away (especially since I should probably learn to shoot closer to me in that case.)

I dig it!

 

[Paz]

Played a bunch more last night, and Holly usually suits me best. Her secondary weapon is devastating. Just kite enemies into a line, turn around, and shoot. You can wipe out a ton of baddies doing that. Still trying to figure out how to get higher than rank C on Embryo, though. Usually I use big chains to rack up my score and boost my rank, but that isn't really an option with him.

I quite like the battery function, as it adds more tension to the game. From what I can tell, they seem to drop at a certain point in new waves, so I've found playing aggressive really helps as it kills stuff faster, forcing the drop sooner, and I'm not left in a precarious situation where my battery is almost drained.

Sounds like you've really gotten in to the groove with the game, the rhythm is definitely more about aggressive & reckless actions than anything else!

I know these system are not going to be for everyone, but that's the beauty of the current indie game boom, we have variety and choice again. I'm hopeful that for everyone who doesn't quite connect with the system there's someone who does like yourself

Of course that doesn't mean we're not open to changing things, specifically elements like the rate of drops & their behaviour can be tweaked to make things a little bit more fun for everyone. We're well aware that the fight with Vespula has battery drops that are more frustrating than thrilling, and we'll be looking in to that. Early access means many things are incomplete, and the difficulty curve is one of them.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Alright, all the BSOD's and freezes I've had have been with this game only. I've gone through 4 different drivers and lowered my meager OC and still get crashes with this game. I'm at a loss at what to do. It even does it when I'm not trying to stream.

 

[Shengar]

Holy shit the game is amazing! And that when I'm just played it through tutorial and early levels. I can't say much since I'm not very very deep into the game (I'm sucked at bullet hell game too), but I definitely get this when its out for Vita. I have a question though, will be there any characters? How much level will we got in the final release?

 

[wilflare]

there needs to be more buzz for this thread
maybe Paz could post pictures/impressions from the folks at PAX?

 

[Paz]

Alright, all the BSOD's and freezes I've had have been with this game only. I've gone through 4 different drivers and lowered my meager OC and still get crashes with this game. I'm at a loss at what to do. It even does it when I'm not trying to stream.

Sorry to hear that, is there any specific error your PC is coming up with? I've only ever seen 2 crash problems with the game before out of a few hundred test cases, first was someone who used OBS (although I've seen lots of OBS not crash so I suspect a setting conflict) and it went away when he stopped using it, and second was an overheating PC as the game likes to run very fast, it's not particularly intensive but it does like to max whatever computer you have to run as smooth as possible. One thing you could try is tweaking the game settings to low gfx/resolution and see if it still occurs, might be a good indicator?

If it happens again please send us an e-mail with whatever info you can think of that would be helpful - info@assaultandroidcactus.com

Holy shit the game is amazing! And that when I'm just played it through tutorial and early levels. I can't say much since I'm not very very deep into the game (I'm sucked at bullet hell game too), but I definitely get this when its out for Vita. I have a question though, will be there any characters? How much level will we got in the final release?

Thanks mate! Glad you had a good time, we're planning for a total of 8 characters after all are unlocked with a 25 level campaign, boss rush mode and endless mode along with rewards/unlockables.

Here's Lachlan & Roula showing the game off at PAX

 

[Kaji]

Hi Paz!

I'd love to see some unlock-able alternate costumes for the androids or even some unlock-able headgear/hats

Thoughts?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It happened while streaming with dxtory and OBS. I have a newer driver now and haven't got back into it but it gave me a prompt at first but after that it's just been freezes and GPU driver crashes. This happens with no other games so I'm trying to figure out the conflict.

I'm sounding random but I have no idea if it's refresh rate or some odd little setting which is throwing fits with my GPU.

Temps are very good on both CPU and GPU so I don't suspect that. I don't know if you have any trouble shooting tips for this game like admin mode or some other ini type fixes or suggestions but I'm open to them.

I'm going to try and stream again to replicate the error and wait for the crash or see if I get anything in Blue Screen View.

STREAM HERE.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sent PM to you Paz.

 

[Paz]

I'm glad you're not crashing any more, still that's a strange error so I'll see what we can do, hopefully it's not in the black box that is streaming software.

 

[Shaneus]

Here's Lachlan & Roula showing the game off at PAX

Need to update that poster

Where do you know those guys from? Are they a part of some company that represents Australian indie devs who can't afford to show their games overseas? Just curious

 

[Paz]

Lachlan was the lead gameplay programmer at Sega when the three of us who formed Witch Beam still worked there, after things sort of collapsed he ended up moving to Seattle and now works for Amazon.

We couldn't afford to go to PAX ourselves but he and his awesome wife Roula offered to demo for us, all four days for like 8+ hours a day! Amazing really.

Can't thank em enough.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wow, that's very nice of them. Make sure you send regards as stuff like that is what really cements good friendships. And it helps good guys like you expose your game to the public without having to fly and spend money to go across the ocean.

 

[Shaneus]

Lachlan was the lead gameplay programmer at Sega when the three of us who formed Witch Beam still worked there, after things sort of collapsed he ended up moving to Seattle and now works for Amazon.

We couldn't afford to go to PAX ourselves but he and his awesome wife Roula offered to demo for us, all four days for like 8+ hours a day! Amazing really.

Can't thank em enough.

Wow, that's really awesome of him. I get the impression that if anything good has come out of the downfall of many bigger devs, it's that many more tightly-knit bonds are formed (like this sort of thing ).

That reminds me, perhaps a little OT but I read this in an article today:

“Because studios are less interested in the midbudget area, there is a massive opportunity for independents to step into that (area) at the moment,” says “Rush” producer Andrew Eaton of London-based Revolution Films.

That's right, it's about a movie. Literally identical to how many people see the games industry.

 

[Shengar]

It's strange that Humble store won't accept my PayPaI account. I can buy it from Steam at least since it somehow can accept it.

Spoiler

Its so sad that I won't get the DRM-free version

 

[utentagen]

I played through the demo and loved every second of it. Immediately bought it afterwards. I haven't played much of the early release version yet, but I did notice this typo on the title screen.

 

[Shaneus]

I played through the demo and loved every second of it. Immediately bought it afterwards. I haven't played much of the early release version yet, but I did notice this typo on the title screen.

That's how we spell it in Australia. Get over it.

 

[Paz]

It's strange that Humble store won't accept my PayPaI account. I can buy it from Steam at least since it somehow can accept it.

Spoiler

Its so sad that I won't get the DRM-free version

I have some good news for you, the Steam version is DRM free. Just copy the directory from your steam apps folder.

Of course if something changes and we end up with DRM in the steam version you're always welcome to download the DRM free game from torrent or wherever you can find it, since you already own it.

Thanks for the bug, actually Tim misspells that word in that way all the time heh, we'll update it

P.S we're going to be working super hard this week on leader boards integration for the steam version, as well as a new level or two. So keep an eye out.

 

[McSpidey]

This is cool. Enforcers at PAX love The Cactus

Spoiler

"Experiance"

too!

If you've ever been to PAX you'd know enforcers are awesome. <3 Cactus <3 Enforcers

Of course they're not the only ones that love cactus there. Behold, the infinite power of the crowd

 

[michaelius]

How do you all feel about the battery pickups?

After playing demo levels - I like them they enforce in your face aproach and agressive gameplay.

 

[Shaneus]

This is cool. Enforcers at PAX love The Cactus

Spoiler

"Experiance"

too!

If you've ever been to PAX you'd know enforcers are awesome. <3 Cactus <3 Enforcers

Of course they're not the only ones that love cactus there. Behold, the infinite power of the crowd

That's great! Can you guys see any bumps in sales on Steam/Humble from the PAX presence?

 

[usea]

I was trying to get high scores on some levels, and man those spinning platform things are annoying. Revolution is a particularly annoying level. I couldn't get above a D on it. Then I decided to try Starch and I got a B. They're really good for that level imo.

edit: okay I'm trying to get S+ on all the levels. On the third level (Filament?) I had S, and it took me a bunch of tries to get S+. Then I noticed on the run I got S+, I didn't even beat my high score. What are the ranks determined by, just chain? Because I got a perfect chain every time I got S+. Should I shoot for a high score, or S+ rank? And how is scoring determined?

 

[Hazaro]

S+ is perfect chain and S rank I believe.

 

[GhastlyGaseous]

Just played this today at pax after recognizing the title from the thread. Awesome, awesome game. I entered into the giveaway that was going on, hope I get lucky, otherwise I'll have to buy it. Group had a lot of fun playing, though we couldn't get passed the first boss (embryo?) due to our woeful skills.

 

[Mr Nash]

I'm going to have to try Starch on Revolution, I think. That level is just brutal toward the end. I can do pretty well with Coral on it if I can stay reasonably positioned toward the center and make smart use of her secondary, but it's really tough during the last wave or two where the level just drops all the terrible things on you at once. >_<

More often than not, though, I'm using Holly. She's a beast with that cannon ball!

 

[Paz]

Yeah S+ is a full chain on the level with no deaths, but scoring takes in to account things like time taken & multi kills which means it's possible to get a higher score on a faster but less chained run.

Not sure if we'll change that or just leave it as a quirk at this point, hmm.

I think the spawns at the end of Revolution are a bit out of control Might have to tweak them.

 

[usea]

My issue with revolution is the combination of the walls, central death laser, and moving ground. It's very easy to die from the laser. Trying to kill it can be frustrating as your shots hit walls. Trying to move closer can be hard because the platform slings you into the laser. It's not so much hard as it's one of those times where when you die you feel like it wasn't completely your fault. You feel out of control a bit. You probably have to look too far ahead in time to avoid dying.

What's a multi-kill? Like a single shot (lemon's rocket) killing multiple things?

Also, what's with the text in the top left during a level complete screen. It says a character's name and a score. It seems to always say the character you're using. Is that like, the previous high score with that character? Oh wait, I bet it would make more sense in co-op. It's the score for each player, right? And then it adds time bonus and stuff under it to get your total?

Also, perhaps the screen at the end of a level should say the level you just beat? For screenshot purposes

 

[shaowebb]

Sorry you feel that way mate, the battery system is very much at the core of our games mechanics so I can see how it would be make or break if you're really not in to it.

We wanted to make a high energy & intense shoot em up and the battery is used to enforce that experience, if you're running out of battery the only solution is to become more reckless and aggressive in order to attain it. It circumvents a lot of problems that a traditional arena based shmup where they often struggle with pacing and boring/uninteresting dominant strategies.

Hopefully you find another more traditional shmup that scratches that itch for you, or you find a way to get in to the groove of what Cactus is all about.

From what I played it felt like the battery would drop at the half way point of an enemy wave and upon the successful completion of that wave. Is this true or was it just me falling into playstyle patterns creating this scenario over and over?

In any event the game is great and forcing players to have to rush in because running away is bad and will cause you to wear out too quickly is a pretty unique concept. As fun as it is though...I gotta say you should probably tone it down on the battery. Its really too easy to get wasted before the drop comes and you cant really predict when the battery is coming. Perhaps an indicator to tell us how far till the next drop would be better than just seeing our health drop with no finish line in sight? Or just increase the drop rate on the battery to a lower kill number or something.

I dunno...but it feels really strict and the bulletwaves and enemies already made it a fun challenge. It could just use toned down a bit with the battery IMO. Its good, but its holding itself back a bit from reaching the full audience with this mechanic is how I see the overall potential of it currently since its not very forgiving even in the demo and there are supposed to be like 25 stages in the final release.

 

[Paz]

End of level screen definitely needs to show the level name, probably the start of the level too. Multi-kills are when you defeat enemies within a fraction of a second from one another, so aoe weapons like the cannon ball/shotgun/rockets get lots of them but you can also earn it with other weapons by powering them up and destroying lots of small enemies, you'll notice the chain counter flashes red on a multi kill.

That panel showing the character name and score is our info panel, in single player it's useful to show you your total kills / highest chain / number of deaths and in multiplayer it's used to break down individual contributions to the total score. To the right of the name/score is where you can see the stats breakdown.

I can understand that the battery system seems like it's holding us back from reaching a bigger audience but I think it really helps push players to experience the game in its most fun form. So while a few more people might be able to get through the game without it I think the people who enjoy the game the most would lose out big time. We're still tuning a lot of the properties though (such as the duration it stays on the field which is going way up) but the mechanic itself is definitely at the core of the game.

 

[Parakeetman]

This looks like it could be pretty damned fun!