BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Emo opinion this is retarded.
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At least 14 youths stoned to death recently in Iraq for "emo" style
- Thread starter Kabouter
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Reminds me of Heavy Metal in Baghdad. These guys all fled the country...
Deified Data
Banned
Remarkably hateful people.
Musha_Soturi
Member
I just read about this on the BBC news website. Makes me so mad.
This is why I am against religion. People say to me, oh but it's only the extremists who go around killing people, the majority of religious people are nice normal people. Right. Nice normal people who stone someone to death because of the way they dress.
I know it'll be way after my time so I won't get to see it, but I bet the world cannot wait until a time where there is no religion.
This is why I am against religion. People say to me, oh but it's only the extremists who go around killing people, the majority of religious people are nice normal people. Right. Nice normal people who stone someone to death because of the way they dress.
I know it'll be way after my time so I won't get to see it, but I bet the world cannot wait until a time where there is no religion.
This is the worst pun attempt in the history of NeoGAF. Congrats.
Duane Cunningham
Member
They really really need a strong system of law. Meaning, the laws on the books need to say that murder is illegal, and it needs to be enforced.
When conservatism runs unchecked by law, this is what happens, even in the US. This is why separation of church and state is important, and they need it sorely.
When conservatism runs unchecked by law, this is what happens, even in the US. This is why separation of church and state is important, and they need it sorely.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
At least I'm the best at something.
lmao!
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Islam.
...And that wouldn't be considered extremist? I don't know what you are trying to get at. I'm pretty sure that most religious people would say that this act is wrong.
Anyways, I heard about this a few days ago. Very sad/stupid.
I don't even know what Sura or Hadith these people would reference in their righteousness. I guess the "If a man turns away from his religion (Islam), kill him" one. While that phrase was bad enough, it's so easily... molded to fit any agenda. Start eating Cap'n Crunch? You're turning away from Islam bro.
how the fuck do moderate muslims justify that rule
its pretty clear
wonder how many people in saudi arabia etc are secretly unbelievers but batshit afraid so they keep up the act
JiuJitsuka
Neo Member
That is not a rule set in Islam. The back story behind that was very political.
Back then when the Islamic nation was still young and fragile, some people decided to enter Islam and leave intentionally just a short while after. The goal behind this move was to disrupt Islam's reputation among Arabs in the peninsula. So then, as a counter measurement, the ruling came that anyone who does that will not be tolerated.
I conclude, it was clearly restricted to that time and period, and precise political situation. Nowadays, no one would do any harm if he would step out of Islam. As a matter of fact, those stepping out of it nowadays do it because of issues with the religion itself, not like the those in the story I've just mentioned who did that just to cause harm and intended damage.
If you would like to know if Islamic scholars also share this opinion ? Tariq Al-Suwaidan is a very influential Islamic thinker and he carries this belief. He is a good example.
As for the emos in Iraq, I can only say that it totally pathetic. A human's life is one of the most, if not the most , precious things on this planet.
Wait WHAT? The fuck is wrong with these backwater, uneducated, piece of shit, overzealous religious fucks...?!
And I say that with all due disrespect.
It makes living in the global community a lot harder when the most vocal religious members are the dumbest and most barbaric! I'm pretty sure this is more of a cultural dogma or something(the roots of which I have no clue). Fucked up as it is.
Executing youths because of a dress code!
Ay yay yay...
I'm not Islamic(Atheist actually) but I live with family members who are and have friends who are and they agree with me, this shit is insane. Beyond insane.
What period are we in, the 13th century or something?
I can't even...
And I say that with all due disrespect.
It makes living in the global community a lot harder when the most vocal religious members are the dumbest and most barbaric! I'm pretty sure this is more of a cultural dogma or something(the roots of which I have no clue). Fucked up as it is.
Executing youths because of a dress code!
Ay yay yay...
I'm not Islamic(Atheist actually) but I live with family members who are and have friends who are and they agree with me, this shit is insane. Beyond insane.
What period are we in, the 13th century or something?
I can't even...
Interesting perspective on the Rule - but you do realize that the hadith's ambiguity makes it easily applicable to today, correct? I mean all it says is "If a man decides not to be muslim anymore, kill him" - and in another part, it cites apostasy as one of the three justifiable reasons for killing someone. Heck, these quotes are what the Muslims who are okay with the death penalty for apostasy (hint, a whole fucking lot of them) espouse to justify their position. And can you really blame them?
Specifically, the idea that it was put into the hadith simply to prevent some covert underground stuff, is more or less a 'guess'. It's not clear in the Hadith, and you have to look at the history of Islam at the time to even make that assumption. You'd think something as important as killing someone would have been outlined with a bit more clarity.
Baggatoast
Member
Wait, emo? Did they stone them on myspace five years ago?
JiuJitsuka
Neo Member
True, the hadith isn't very clear and is misinterpreted by many as you've pointed.
However, in Islamic sharia or " Fiqh " which is a term referring to teachings of Islam, scholars are taught during their specialization a term called " Fiqh al maqasid " which roughly translated means : Ruling of the causes, or knowledge of the causes. This includes the actual causes and stories behind various Islamic texts whether from the Quran or hadiths ( Mohammad's sayings ). You will see that scholars who come from places like Saudi don't give much value to this. However, scholars who arise from Egypt ( from their Azhar university to be specific ) refer to this sort of reasoning very much in interpreting various Islamic texts. I believe it is the most logical way of understanding many texts in the Islamic heritage because many texts appear very random and without any pre-story or explanation to why exactly they were said.
And of course that makes sense, taking any text from hundreds of years ago and trying to apply it to the society we live in today is a horrible idea. And I am fully aware there are some Islamic scholars that are reasonable on this subject and try to separate what should have been considered important then and forgotten now, to what should be kept now. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like a lot of scholars or Imam consider this in their preaching, and that ignores the Muslims who feel the need to educate themselves on the message of the Hadith and the Qu'ran. When they are taught by the teachings or by others that the Qu'ran is timeless, they seem to apply the same mentality to the Hadith as well it seems.
Basically, my overarching point is, that quote in the Hadith does a lot of harm, and it is the reason why many Islamic apostates fear 'coming out' to their families, even in western countries. Me for example, I am not really afraid of my family doing anything more than excommunicating me, but there is always that lingering fear, always those stories you hear growing up from your parents about a friends friends friends kid who converted away from Islam or something, and what they (or others who heard about it) did to them. You just don't want that drama on your doorstep.
I can only imagine how it would be like in a non-western country. Especially an Islamic Republic.
JiuJitsuka
Neo Member
I can only agree with what you say. Personally, I disagree with a lot of Islamic scholars on the field. Many muslims around the world chose a more conservative method of thinking because it is the simplest way. They don't want to confuse themselves with why something was said or if there was a certain occasion. You find this sort of extremism in Saudi, Pakistan, and even in countries like Egypt where it became popular lately. As for muslims in the west, it happens that ( especially to youngsters ) sometimes get a period in which they turn really religious. They start reading Islamic texts which are basically available everywhere and interpret them based on what they read without any thorough understanding. They get confused and riddled by how contradicting the western society is in some of its aspects to their their teachings which they started applying in their lives. As an unfortunate result, you will find them being secluded, becoming even more extreme than some muslims in muslim countries.
As for the familial part, what you've said is true. My brother once told me that he doesn't believe in Islam, and as you mentioned about yourself, he also kept it something more or less hidden from the society here. It's like a taboo =( .
planar1280
Banned
Sunni and Shiite Islam. their fundamentalists promote strict no holds bar rules and Jihad of the sword. The answer is Ahmadiyya Muslims who think the concept is wrong but the judge is not Man but God. Much better alternative as Man messes religious law up
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I guess we know of one place Lil Wayne can't give a show at.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Wonder what would happen if we sent Skrillex there.
Seriously though, that shit's insane. Killing people due to how they dress? Ridiculous.
Seriously though, that shit's insane. Killing people due to how they dress? Ridiculous.
Pollux
Member
Talk about the fucking wayback machine lol
ALL religion is a problem, not just this one.
IDK, Buddhists seem like pretty cool people to me.
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