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[Kobold]

Hehe, one does wonder why industry folk tolerate the general stupidity of this forum. But hey, I guess we have our moments on here, from time to time. GAF is the Boston of the gaming forum world. It's a little bigtown...or was that a big smalltown? Meh. The booze has sapped what little funny is left in me. PEACE.

Unlike the common belief of some people. GAF is like any other forum out there. There is stupid people, smart people, smart stupid people, etcetera. You have to filter through the crap to get to the interesting parts.

Upside is, there is a lot of people, hence there is lot of crap, but relatively also more interesting conversations. The ass end of the gaming community, perhaps.

Just like someone said earlier, the truth is somewhere in between.

The truth is whatever you want it to be. You can't discuss facts, nor can you argue factually about which 'art' is better. So once more it will be up to personal preference as it was between PS2 and Xbox this generation. Power is useless when it's not used. Technically impressive games are useless if they don't look pretty to you art-wise. Hence the whole argument on power and the likes is once again, as it always has been, moot.

There will be two consoles, both with arguably great games in time. Some people will prefer one, some the other. The world goes round, all is as it was before. No one learns anything, conflict rules the mind of men. Or, perchance. people realize it doesn't the hell matter and just want to play good games without slamming one or the other.

You don't prefer one neighbour to the other because he can push more weights if both are willing to lend their lawnmower to you, or whatever bizarre analogy you can think up for that.

 

[Incognito]

MrBob should have posting rights revoked after those last few doozies. Jesus. Biased much?

 

[ManaByte]

Why? Its no more reasonable to assume the difference will be slight/negligible between these consoles than large.
Everyone insisting the gap won't even be PS2:Xbox are guessing the same as those saying it will be pronounced. Although one is guessing based on promises + limited information whilst the other is guessing based on distrust + limited information.

They're focusing on the wrong gap. The difference, graphically, between the X360 and the PS3 is honestly not going to be as huge as fanboys are spooging over. In fact, in 2006 don't be surprised if most X360 stuff looks better than the PS3 versions as developers have had more time with the hardware.

The big gap will be between the X360/PS3 and the Rev.

 

[lips]

I have suspected the x1800 is not suited for games before. this confirms it. after owning an 8500 128mb ram and a x700 256 mb ram, I can honestly admit ati's pc cards are terrible for games.

 

[Mrbob]

MrBob should have posting rights revoked after those last few doozies. Jesus. Biased much?

Bias for what?

360 is my main next gen platform. I just think PS3 is going to be significantly more powerful. We'll see soon enough.

Meh, there was nothing wrong with my previous comment but i see the mod patrol can't help with their "unbiased" evaluation. Not the first time this has happened so I'm not surprised. Maybe I can get knocked again for saying I like the Kameo soundtrack.

Let me clarify for those who don't understand. I didn't mean Xbox 360 is the next Sega Saturn as a negative. Saturn was the 2D powerhouse but it didn't excel in 3D. Xbox 360 will be a 3D powerhouse but it won't excel in physics like PS3 will. History will prove me right on this topic.

 

[Draft]

I have suspected the x1800 is not suited for games before. this confirms it. after owning an 8500 128mb ram and a x700 256 mb ram, I can honestly admit ati's pc cards are terrible for games.

what

 

[Speevy]

MrBob: The new olimario. His revelations keep us guessing!

 

[Striek]

They're focusing on the wrong gap. The difference, graphically, between the X360 and the PS3 is honestly not going to be as huge as fanboys are spooging over.

Why? I could take the opposite view and say its not going to be as small as fanboys are wishing. Its just impossible to say definitively like that.

In fact, in 2006 don't be surprised if most X360 stuff looks better than the PS3 versions as developers have had more time with the hardware

Possibly, but then confirmed real-time PS3 already matches the best of what has been shown for X360, so unlikely. Both systems should exceed what has already been shown (PS3 ~12months development time on titles, X360 new games shown), I think another point its impossible to be certain of.

 

[DSN2K]

I have suspected the x1800 is not suited for games before. this confirms it. after owning an 8500 128mb ram and a x700 256 mb ram, I can honestly admit ati's pc cards are terrible for games.

O_0

their low-end, mid-range cards suck and baffle me but their high-end stuff really is top draw.

 

[Jonnyram]

Let me clarify for those who don't understand. I didn't mean Xbox 360 is the next Sega Saturn as a negative. Saturn was the 2D powerhouse but it didn't excel in 3D. Xbox 360 will be a 3D powerhouse but it won't excel in physics like PS3 will. History will prove me right on this topic.

No, I understood that's what you were saying the first time, but it still makes no sense. First off, how did the Saturn fail at 3D? Second, if the PS2 can run Havoc, I see no reason why the 360 can't.

 

[Mrbob]

No, I understood that's what you were saying the first time, but it still makes no sense. First off, how did the Saturn fail at 3D? Second, if the PS2 can run Havoc, I see no reason why the 360 can't.

I didn't say it failed at 3D. I said it didn't excel at 3D like Playstation did.

Just because a console can do something doesn't mean it can do it as good as another. Don't twist my words and I get knocked for the comment because of a misinterpretation. Ridiculous.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

No, I understood that's what you were saying the first time, but it still makes no sense. First off, how did the Saturn fail at 3D? Second, if the PS2 can run Havoc, I see no reason why the 360 can't.

I don't think it is a matter of being able to do it, it's how much it can do is at hand.

 

[Speevy]

I didn't say it failed at 3D. I said it didn't excel at 3D like Playstation did.

Excel is not a term I would use for what the PSOne or N64 did. They got the job done for their time.

 

[ManaByte]

Possibly, but then confirmed real-time PS3 already matches the best of what has been shown for X360, so unlikely. Both systems should exceed what has already been shown (PS3 ~12months development time on titles, X360 new games shown), I think another point its impossible to be certain of.

There isn't a real-time playable PS3 game to compare to anything on X360 yet. Even comparing real-time demos to full games is unfair.

 

[rob the slob]

Its nice to see ATI giving Krazy Ken Kutaragi a taste of his own medicine.

They should have called it PS2.5 and it would have been perfect.

 

[mckmas8808]

There isn't a real-time playable PS3 game to compare to anything on X360 yet. Even comparing real-time demos to full games is unfair.

Mark Reign has one. Reporters have already played the playable PS3 game.

 

[ThirdEye]

I'm sorry, but I thought all the PS3 dev kits were PC-based, especially back at that time. Did you have some kind of hardware mockup instead?

BS.
Microsoft devkits were PowerMac but Sony provided Cell in their first devkits.

 

[ThirdEye]

Its nice to see ATI giving Krazy Ken Kutaragi a taste of his own medicine.

They should have called it PS2.5 and it would have been perfect.

I've never heard KK say technically false slander against others.

 

[Striek]

O_0

their low-end, mid-range cards suck and baffle me but their high-end stuff really is top draw.

Their budget cards are awesome. Their high-end stuff is however falling. They simply haven't been able to compete with nVidia on either 6800 or 7800. nVidia reclaimed their performance crown days after the (delayed and horribly launched) 1800XT was released with the 7800GTX512.

There isn't a real-time playable PS3 game to compare to anything on X360 yet. Even comparing real-time demos to full games is unfair.

Well, theres UT2007, Warhawk (theres a video of someone playing it out there, looks hot), and I-8. More than a match and have time to undergo PDZ shitfest to PDZ shithot transformation (people seem to expect that only X360 games can improve with development...).

 

[mckmas8808]

More than a match and have time to undergo PDZ shitfest to PDZ shithot transformation (people seem to expect that only X360 games can improve with development...).

Yeah that's something that I don't understand. Why can't games being made on the PS3 get better?

 

[Raven.]

Well, theres UT2007, Warhawk (theres a video of someone playing it out there, looks hot), and I-8. More than a match and have time to undergo PDZ shitfest to PDZ shithot transformation (people seem to expect that only X360 games can improve with development...).

We also saw two gt5 models in vision, and it's clear that game is gonna go solid 60fps true 720p with up to nearly two dozen cars onscreen at once.(the ducks too as already mentioned, given that that was all cell, iirc, though I may be wrong.)

Yeah that's something that I don't understand. Why can't games being made on the PS3 get better?

Especially given the ps3 is better than the dev kits.

edited

 

[Speevy]

Yeah that's something that I don't understand. Why can't games being made on the PS3 get better?

People have to play the games to determine what's wrong with any of them. From there, each title has the potential to get better (with regard to graphics and gameplay).

 

[Speevy]

We also saw two gt5 models in vision, and it's clear that game is gonna go solid 60fps true 720p

omg pgr3 isnt amazing afterall no wait it is stop.

 

[SolidSnakex]

omg pgr3 isnt amazing afterall no wait it is stop.

Who said it wasn't?

 

[Jonnyram]

Yeah that's something that I don't understand. Why can't games being made on the PS3 get better?

I thought we were looking at graphical targets rather than actual games

 

[monkeymagic]

We also saw two gt5 models in vision, and it's clear that game is gonna go solid 60fps true 720p with up to nearly two dozen cars onscreen at once.(the ducks too as already mentioned, given that that was all cell, iirc, though I may be wrong.)

Those weren't GT5 models I believe - just bumped up GT4 models.

I would expect real GT5 models to look even better.

Also given that PD squeezed '1080i'/60FPS from PS2 I will be disappointed if GT5 isn't 1080p/60FPS.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Those weren't GT5 models I believe - just bumped up GT4 models.

The models (the Evo and Mazda) from the TGS trailer were GT5's models. Most of the models in the trailer though are bumped up versions of the GT4 models (like adding 3D rims to them).

 

[Speevy]

Who said it wasn't?

I can't possibly imagine what else the specific comment + winking could have been about.

 

[Chrono]

Well, theres UT2007, Warhawk (theres a video of someone playing it out there, looks hot)

I don't think it's on ign/gamespot so here it is for anybody that missed it...


http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2W327HCQ7ZGKN3ODBHB76U2V23


Water looks awesome.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Hey Manabyte, I wouldn't try to insult anyone after Mandark emasculated you and you didn't reply to the thread to try to save some of your dignity.

 

[Striek]

omg pgr3 isnt amazing afterall no wait it is stop.

Well its great looking, but shouldn't "amazing" be reserved for a 60fps 720p game with good AA and better car models?
Maybe I'd think it was amazing if they didn't show all those pictures that were ~unrepresentative for the most part of in-game graphics. Much like GT4

 

[D.Cowboys]

Why? Its no more reasonable to assume the difference will be slight/negligible between these consoles than large.
Everyone insisting the gap won't even be PS2:Xbox are guessing the same as those saying it will be pronounced. Although one is guessing based on promises + limited information whilst the other is guessing based on distrust + limited information.

Nope, If you think I believe the shit this guy said all the way, forget it. Believe Sony? Yeah right.

Next thing you know the ps3 will have your favorite hollywood star giving people free blowjobs. It's just that powerful. Come on, everyone here knows that technology advances only so far so fast. Thas what I base my reactions on. Unless Sony has aquired a cs101 cpu chip from the future, I call bullshit.

Will ps3 be more powerful? We'll know when they show something concrete. Right now all I see are Leprechauns. They overpromised on the ps2, they are doing the same with ps3. How much so remains to be seen.

Am I the only motherfucker that knew killzone was not indicative of real gameplay within a real gamplay environment without even having to see the videos?

 

[Speevy]

Well its great looking, but shouldn't "amazing" be reserved for a 60fps 720p game with good AA and better car models?
Maybe I'd think it was amazing if they didn't show all those pictures that were ~unrepresentative for the most part of in-game graphics. Much like GT4

Amazing should be reserved for the most technically impressive racing game ever, which Project Gotham Racing 3 is. Hands down.

Like GT3 when it came out in 2001.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They overpromised on the ps2, they are doing the same with ps3. How much so remains to be seen.

Oh no...

 

[Speevy]

Silent Hill Man!

 

[mckmas8808]

I thought we were looking at graphical targets rather than actual games

No those were games in progress. Liar for example is showing you the real game. I-8 is showing you the real game. Warhawk also.

 

[Speevy]

Liar for example is showing you the real game.

I bet it's lying.

 

[mckmas8808]

D.Cowboy's is a clown if he really thinks that the PS2 games today didn't outperform what they showed in 1999. Clown I say.

 

[Jonnyram]

No those were games in progress. Liar for example is showing you the real game. I-8 is showing you the real game. Warhawk also.

It doesn't help that GAFfers don't seem to be getting as excited about those as games like MGS4, Gundam, GT5, etc, which were all declared to be target visuals.

 

[fortified_concept]

Yeah that's something that I don't understand. Why can't games being made on the PS3 get better?

Here's some xbox fans' logic:

1) PS3 is hard to develop for - Developers won't support it
2) Xbox360's future games will look way better that the current ones - no PS3 game will ever look better than MGS4 (or that's what is implied)

Problem is, #1 contradicts with #2, since if PS3 is so har to develop for its future games will look WAY more improved than the Xbox360's future games.

IMO they have to decide. It's either the PS3 is easier to develop for than 360, or in the future the graphical difference between PS3 and 360 will widen.

 

[mckmas8808]

I bet it's lying.

:lol I mean Lair. Lair is a real game in progress. I we seen the early parts of the game.

 

[D.Cowboys]

D.Cowboy's is a clown if he really thinks that the PS2 games today didn't outperform what they showed in 1999. Clown I say.

Your not being able to read isn't my problem. I said nothing about launch games as compared to new games.

 

[mashoutposse]

Your not being able to read isn't my problem. I said nothing about launch games as compared to new games.

He's talking about the realtime PS2 demos shown before launch. Everything they showed before launch has been equalled or surpassed. Technically, they didn't break any promises in that regard.

 

[Striek]

Amazing should be reserved for the most technically impressive racing game ever, which Project Gotham Racing 3 is. Hands down.

It is, but its not "wow amazing" in the same way GT3 was (nor is it such a leap over competitors(outside of photomode WTF is that real imagery )). GT3 seemed incredible at the time, PGR3 graphics are in line with expectations but bolstered by virtue the other launch titles were relatively less impressive. Now I'm not saying GT5 is going to amaze either.

 

[Error Macro]

You know, Mark, threatening to pull all UE3 support from X360 would probably go a long way in getting ATI to issue a retraction/clarification to their rather inflammatory and incorrect comments that they presented in that rather slanderess and libel-infested interview.

WOW.

Jesus is crying on his birthday after reading that.

 

[Speevy]

Here's some xbox fans' logic:

1) PS3 is hard to develop for - Developers won't support it
2) Xbox360's future games will look way better that the current ones - no PS3 game will ever look better than MGS4 (or that's what is implied)

Problem is, #1 contradicts with #2, since if PS3 is so har to develop for its future games will look WAY more improved than the Xbox360's future games.

IMO they have to decide. It's either the PS3 is easier to develop for than 360, or in the future the graphical difference between PS3 and 360 will widen.

Well, the PS3 should be relatively difficult to develop for. (compared to the 360)

Why? Because otherwise, MS really hasn't lived up to its promise in that area. Sony has made no such promise about developer tools and ease of game creation to my knowledge.

How many PS2 games are more technically impressive than Metal Gear Solid 3? It's a compliment to the developer, not an insult to the PS3.

You only get 2 Metal Gear Solids per generation. Might as well make em' count, right?

 

[mckmas8808]

It doesn't help that GAFfers don't seem to be getting as excited about those as games like MGS4, Gundam, GT5, etc, which were all declared to be target visuals.

Well MGS4's demo also showed us what the game will look like. I mean it was real-time. Think about the beginning of the video where they showed FPS view. Take that first 45 or so seconds and just loop it about 10 times. That's what MGS4 will look like.

Well actually it's suppose to look better than that so... And GT5's last video had two cars that were real GT5 cars. Now we all know that those car models will get a graphical facelift in the near future.

And the Gundam game has already been show PLAYED real-time. The devs ACTUALLY PLAYED the game in front of people. I'm sure you've seen the video. People complained that it was slow and that the buildings weren't destructive (as if they won't have time to implement it now).

 

[Deadly Monk]

PS3 will have great games. So will the 360.

Isn't that what matters? Once 2nd and 3rd generation games come out, I bet the differences will be so small that it will help even out the market share instead of complete domination.

And I think what a lot of techsavvy kids have been saying is that even though the ps3 is a powerhouse/beast/super machine, the fact that it's architecture is not aimed just at game developers makes it so that no one can fully tap the machines power. This, in turn, will make the games look just a little better than the 360's even though they CAN be much much better (with dedicated programming teams like Sony's 1st party teams).

 

[mckmas8808]

You only get 2 Metal Gear Solids per generation. Might as well make em' count, right?

You are not saying that MGS4 will be the best looking PS3 game are you?