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[SolidSnakex]

It doesn't help that GAFfers don't seem to be getting as excited about those as games like MGS4, Gundam, GT5, etc, which were all declared to be target visuals.

I think most of the excitement about Gundam comes from the way it looks, and because the PS3 is suppose to be so difficult to develop for yet Bandai, a company never know for graphics is getting that out of it this soon. The other 2, you know why people are talking about those more than the other games mentioned, although people are still pretty excited about Warhawk.

 

[Striek]

How many PS2 games are more technically impressive than Metal Gear Solid 3? It's a compliment to the developer, not an insult to the PS3.
?

This is true!
But there were alot of titles better looking than MGS2, which was a title even further ahead of the (same console) competition than MGS4 appears to be.

 

[Speevy]

You are not saying that MGS4 will be the best looking PS3 game are you?

Who the heck knows?

Maybe Metal Gear Solid 5 will.

 

[teiresias]

It doesn't help that GAFfers don't seem to be getting as excited about those as games like MGS4, Gundam, GT5, etc, which were all declared to be target visuals.

mgs4, gundam? what? misinformed?

 

[rob the slob]

PS2 launch titles :lol

 

[teiresias]

PS2 launch titles :lol

OK, seriously, this HAS to be a bannable offense at this point.

 

[SolidSnakex]

PS2 launch titles :lol

Neither of those games looked like that. Seriously, RRV looks cellshaded in that shot.

 

[BlueTsunami]

PS2 launch titles :lol

Should I be lol'ing?

:/

 

[Speevy]

I think we can all agree that the PS2's average image quality has improved dramatically since 2000.

 

[mckmas8808]

Who the heck knows?

Maybe Metal Gear Solid 5 will.

No seriously I'm not trying to be GAFy right now. So are you saying the only game that will probably look better than MGS4 is MGS5?

 

[rob the slob]

Launch titles look like shit compared to 4th gen titles.

This goes for the 360 and any console in history.

 

[fortified_concept]

Well, the PS3 should be relatively difficult to develop for. (compared to the 360)

Why? Because otherwise, MS really hasn't lived up to its promise in that area. Sony has made no such promise about developer tools and ease of game creation to my knowledge.

How many PS2 games are more technically impressive than Metal Gear Solid 3? It's a compliment to the developer, not an insult to the PS3.

You only get 2 Metal Gear Solids per generation. Might as well make em' count, right?

I don't understand your MGS3 argument. MGS3 was released 4 years after PS2 launch. The real question is how many PS2 games look better than MGS2.

Answer: MANY.

 

[Liquid]

Who the heck knows?

Maybe Metal Gear Solid 5 will.

wow, you're such a smarmy little guy, with your backhanded compliments.

anyway, i don't want to short change mgs4, but i doubt it represents the pinnacle of psx3 graphics.

 

[Speevy]

No seriously I'm not trying to be GAFy right now. So are you saying the only game that will probably look better than MGS4 is MGS5?

Sure, why not? But if I'm wrong, you're the one who benefits, right?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Launch titles look like shit compared to 4th gen titles.

This goes for the 360 and any console in history.

It still looks pretty damn good even today.

 

[fortified_concept]

Who the heck knows?

Maybe Metal Gear Solid 5 will.

Great logic. And who he heck knows that any future 360 game will ever look any better than Kameo and PGR3?

 

[Speevy]

I don't understand your MGS3 argument. MGS3 was released 4 years after PS2 launch. The real question is how many PS2 games look better than MGS2.

Answer: MANY.

Okay... And what's the Metal Gear Solid 4 official release date, by the way? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

You're getting all defensive over what can only be seen as high praise for Team Kojima. But okay.

Tons of developers will DESTROY the graphics of the Metal Gear Solid games next generation. Does that sound better? I doubt it. Stick with what I posted earlier.

 

[Speevy]

Great logic. And who he heck knows that any 360 game will look any better than Kameo and PGR3?

We've already seen games that look better than both... Well, not in the same genre as PGR3. It's pretty much alone in that respect.

Right now, there aren't any PS3 games that technically outclass Metal Gear Solid 4. Are there?

 

[fortified_concept]

Okay... And what's the Metal Gear Solid 4 official release date, by the way? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

You're getting all defensive over what can only be seen as high praise for Team Kojima. But okay.

Tons of developers will DESTROY the graphics of the Metal Gear Solid games next generation. Does that sound better? I doubt it. Stick with what I posted earlier.

Simple. You're comparing MGS3 with other PS2 games when you should be comparing MGS2 since that was the game that was released a few months after PS2's launch (like MGS4 will after PS3's launch) NOT MGS3.

 

[Deadly Monk]

MGS4 will look awesome. Lots of games that come out after MGS4 will look awesome (we don't even know when it's coming out). Good, right?

I think the point is that 1st gen PS3 games might actually look ALMOST as amazing as 2nd,3rd,4th etc. gen PS3 games. More money for their budgets, better looking games! We all win!

I forgot what this topic was originally about. I'll go read my first post on this topic...

 

[rob the slob]

splinter cell 1

chaos theory

 

[monkeymagic]

It still looks pretty damn good even today.

Yes it does.

Whilst I prefer the gameplay of VF I fully expect Namco to blow away visually every other 3D fighter with Tekken Tag 2 on the evidence of the astonishing graphical jump they produced at launch with Tekken Tag and PS2.

 

[Speevy]

This rob the slob guy is really entertaining.

:lol

 

[fortified_concept]

We've already seen games that look better than both... Well, not in the same genre as PGR3. It's pretty much alone in that respect.

Right now, there aren't any PS3 games that technically outclass Metal Gear Solid 4. Are there?

Which games? IMO these are the best looking games on 360, and GoW which I forgot to mention. Let me rephrase the question so you can understand it.

Who he heck knows that any future 360 game will ever look any better than <insert the best looking game you've seen for 360>?

 

[EviLore]

Oooh oooh I can do it too!


Splinter Cell

Chaos Theory

Someone bring in the old man!

 

[Syb]

LOL! Those SC shots are funny. :lol

 

[Speevy]

Which games? IMO these are the best looking games on 360, and GoW which I forgot to mention. Let me rephrase the question so you can understand it.

I understood what you meant the first time. IMO Condemned looks better than Kameo, and I've played both to their end.

Who he heck knows that any future 360 game will ever look any better than <insert the best looking game you've seen for 360>?

Kameo and PGR3 are the games you brought up, and there are games that have been shown in development that look better than those, like Gears of War. I'm sure Oblivion is much more technically impressive than Kameo too. My point was that we've seen better looking 360 games, but so far Metal Gear Solid 4 is the standard for the PS3, and a darn fine standard it is. It's succeeded in being the game against which all others are compared, on both platforms.

Now, would everyone take what I post at face value? Thanks.

 

[rob the slob]

This rob the slob guy is really entertaining.

:lol

Thank you.
I get that alot.


I think its funny hearing SONY fanboys talk shit about some 360 launch titles, like the PS2 launch had no stinkers.

 

[Davew49]

Q&A: Richard Huddy European developer relations manager, ATI

A lot of pointless typing deleted.

You could have done better than that, you sound like you are towing the SONY ONLY Club's party line.

I mean there is so much BS on both sides of the fence, why bother?

DAVEW

 

[J2 Cool]

splinter cell 1

chaos theory

More like gayass fury

 

[Rorschach]

Well, the PS3 should be relatively difficult to develop for. (compared to the 360)

Why? Because otherwise, MS really hasn't lived up to its promise in that area. Sony has made no such promise about developer tools and ease of game creation to my knowledge.

Oh lord...stop posting...

 

[rob the slob]

Tekken Tag

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Sony has made no such promise about developer tools and ease of game creation to my knowledge.

Which is obviously quite limited.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Thank you.
I get that alot.


I think its funny hearing SONY fanboys talk shit about some 360 launch titles, like the PS2 launch had no stinkers.

It did, but you might want to do a better job of picking those instead of going out and finding the worst pics you can find of each game.

 

[rob the slob]

More like gayass fury

Does not compute.

 

[Speevy]

Which is obviously quite limited.

Obviously.

But I'm still right.

MS having the more difficult console would go against their original vision and would be a tremendous win for Sony.

 

[sprsk]

 

[fortified_concept]

I understood what you meant the first time. IMO Condemned looks better than Kameo, and I've played both to their end.




Kameo and PGR3 are the games you brought up, and there are games that have been shown in development that look better than those, like Gears of War. I'm sure Oblivion is much more technically impressive than Kameo too. My point was that we've seen better looking 360 games, but so far Metal Gear Solid 4 is the standard for the PS3, and a darn fine standard it is. It's succeeded in being the game against which all others are compared, on both platforms.

Now, would everyone take what I post at face value? Thanks.

Oh for god's sake! You really can't understand what I'm saying, can you? You make it sound like it's almost impossible for a future PS3 games to look any better than MGS4, yet you are always certain that future 360 games will absolutelly look WAY better than anything we've seen so far on 360. Then you say that PS3 is harder to develop for than 360.

In other words: You contradict yourself. You can't have both. It's either the PS3 is hard to develop for which means that in the future PS3 games will look much better that MGS4 (just like many many PS2 games look way better than MGS2), or that PS3 is easier to develop for than 360 and the graphical gap between the two consoles will get smaller like you claim. I don't know what else to say to make you understand my point.

 

[BigBoss]

 

[Vince]

I almost feel bad for Richard Huddy, the man just sucks at PR. ATI, as a whole, is utterly incompetent when it comes to public-relations and getting across a piercing and coherent messege; which is noticable if you ever compare their presentations to nVidia's.

His comments ring hollow; The X360, holistically, it much more incoherent than the PlayStation3's integration of it's components by custom, high-bandwith interfaces and the division of labor and silicon area in the PS3. Cell and the SCC are the closest to purpose-built IC's from the ground-up as you're going to find. The XCPU was, by his standards, a hack-job completed in a fraction of the time as the Cell project, at a fraction of the budget in terms of monetary and division of labor. Cell was designed at a purpose-built facility in Austin and basically was staffed by a who's-who list of researcher's from within IBM, Sony and Toshiba; it was presented at ISSCC, Hot-Chips, et al. to acclaim, where's the XCPU?

And he X360 GPU is derived from the stillborn R400, which was a unified shader design targeted at the PC market over a year ago. It's just as much of a "PC" design as the RSX. It most certainly has a more esoteric design, but it's still just a molding of work you did for the PC (R400) into what MS sent to you in their tenders back in 2002.

Dick, you're homosexual in the way that makes gay people sick; no wonder you guys like Baumann.

Well, the PS3 should be relatively difficult to develop for. (compared to the 360)

Unfounded. There.

 

[Speevy]

Oh for god's sake! You really can't understand what I'm saying, can you? You make it sound like it's almost impossible for a future PS3 games to look any better than MGS4, yet you are always certain that future 360 games will absolutelly look WAY better than anything we've seen so far on 360.

NO. I'm saying that there are Xbox 360 games in development that already look better than those. This isn't about hopes and dreams.

Then you say that PS3 is harder to develop for than 360.

I said it should be. Otherwise, MS has failed.

In other words: You contradict yourself. You can't have both. It's either the PS3 is hard to develop for which means that in the future PS3 games will look much better that MGS4 (just like many many PS2 games look way better than MGS2), or that PS3 is easier to develop for than 360 and the graphical gap between the two consoles will get smaller.

There's no middle ground? Maybe the 360's development is easier, but the PS3's gap isn't all that wide? These are questions I can't answer, nor have I tried.


The more important question is, why do you think I'm defending the 360 here? If both consoles stopped right now, the PS3 would have the better looking game. It's not like I said the 360 will ever outclass Metal Gear Solid 4.

 

[Raven.]

It doesn't help that GAFfers don't seem to be getting as excited about those as games like MGS4, Gundam, GT5, etc, which were all declared to be target visuals.

All realtime on weaker dev. kits, there was even an interactive realtime demo of gundam as already stated in this thread(albeit without use of spes so no physics implemented. Though the latest trailer, may or may not be realtime, if it's realtime ps3's gonna deliver big time.).

I think people don't give enough credits to the cell demos, I mean the duck demo for example had the most impressive realtime fluid physics yet, and it had insane geometry lvls, and insane number of objects interacting with each other and the fluid with physics, all running from the cell alone. We've also the particles demo, again 100s of thousands of particles interacting with physics simulation of wind(or so it seemed), that demo has the most impressive number of particles in realtime and use of such I've seen. There's also the getaway, recycling assets and all, iirc, and yet despite running solely on cell, iirc, it blows away the media we've seen from even some next-gen titles in the same genre.

PS

:lol at the joke post suggesting a rushed trailer that is said to run at 60fps and rumored to use some recycled assets on non-final weaker dev. kits(did those've 2.4Ghz cells still in addition to the crippled b/w and lack of RSX?) is representative of what's gonna be possible on the ps3. That is an impossibility [given the fact it's running on weaker h/w], you don't take s/w on substantially weaker beta or alpha kits, especially if it's said to run at 60fps, as even suggestive of approaching the limits of what the final h/w can do.

 

[Speevy]

I forsaw stupid comments like this when I suggested an icon which pulls out a handgun and blows off the back of his head.

You know what? I don't deserve this. There have been more than a few articles pointing to the idea that the PS3's power will take some serious talent to tap, and while I don't claim to know what all that means, I know it is one of MS' priorities to make sure the opposite is true.

Whomever you are, whatever you do, single someone else out.

 

[Striek]

NO. I'm saying that there are Xbox 360 games in development that already look better than those. This isn't about hopes and dreams.

PGR3 and Kameo are amongst the cream of the crop amongst developed or in-development games from my perspective. Gears of War looks great in cutscenes, but otherwise its not really a leap nor a bound ahead. That Bioware game, name escapes me, is probably the best looking X360 game ATM. Thing is, we saw all these titles before the console released. We have no indication its going to get better, just like PS3. Understanding and history tell us both will though.

I said it should be. Otherwise, MS has failed.

MS's toolset is reportedly easier, but not by much. They still have XNA to come (its late).

Baumann.

Kinda OT but I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that Dave seemed to be the biggest ATI (and by relation, X360) fanboy. Guess not.

 

[ThirdEye]

Launch titles look like shit compared to 4th gen titles.

This goes for the 360 and any console in history.

360 is known as its easy development, right? What you imply contradicts what MS are saying.

 

[DCharlie]

"Dick, you're homosexual in the way that makes gay people sick; no wonder you guys like Baumann."

Jesus - what an ass hat!

(forget it - can't be arsed)

 

[fortified_concept]

NO. I'm saying that there are Xbox 360 games in development that already look better than those. This isn't about hopes and dreams.

So you mean that you, or many other xbox fans, have never claimed that future 360 games* will show 360's true graphical power and how extremely close it is to PS3 powerwise? Sorry then, I'm talking to the wrong Speevy.

* not Oblivion or Gow I'm talking about future games that we haven't seen yet, games that according to you will look way better than anything we've seen so far for 360 playable or non playable - [please don't get confused again]

The more important question is, why do you think I'm defending the 360 here? If both consoles stopped right now, the PS3 would have the better looking game. It's not like I said the 360 will ever outclass Metal Gear Solid 4.

You always defend 360. Let's not be hypocrites here. You defend 360, I defend PS3.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

360 is known as its easy development, right? What you imply contradicts what MS are saying.

Still, a proper game is not made when you are scaling on inadequate dev kits and only have final hardware for 1.5 months before launch. The PS3 games have been conceptualized to run on the PS3. The 360 games, who knows what the fuck. As far as devkits being closer to the respective finals, the PS3 environment was better. However, with finals behing out for the 360, things can't only go anywhere but up.

 

[Davew49]

Jesus - what an ass hat!

I'll second that remark. Over on the Beyond3d forums this guy is pretty much a legend in his own mind.

DAVEW

 

[fortified_concept]

Still, a proper game is not made when you are scaling on inadequate dev kits and only have final hardware for 1.5 months before launch. The PS3 games have been conceptualized to run on the PS3. The 360 games, who knows what the fuck. As far as devkits being closer to the respective finals, the PS3 environment was better. However, with finals behing out for the 360, things can't only go anywhere but up.

Can you please inform me for how many months you'll keep using that Alpha kits/Beta kits/one core excuse? 360 is out and you're still using that. Please make it stop.

edit: And like ThirdEye mentioned we're not talking just about 1st gen games here, so your point is kinda invalid.