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[Liquid]

Jesus - what an ass hat!

(forget it - can't be arsed)

you shouldn't have posted anything, then. i mean, why take the time to type something up, then edit it out? unless......

 

[ThirdEye]

Still, a proper game is not made when you are scaling on inadequate dev kits and only have final hardware for 1.5 months before launch. The PS3 games have been conceptualized to run on the PS3. The 360 games, who knows what the fuck. As far as devkits being closer to the respective finals, the PS3 environment was better. However, with finals behing out for the 360, things can't only go anywhere but up.

I'm not specifically talking about the launch. Games like Gears of War is maybe called a second-gen Xbox 360 game, but I doubt Halo 3 or other later games can surpass it as an n-generation game.

 

[PizzaFarmer]

MS's toolset is reportedly easier, but not by much. They still have XNA to come (its late).

XNA isn't a single boxed product. It's an initiative and software platform that consists of a lot of different things, none of which are "late" and the first three of which are:

Cross-platform X360 gamepad available for PC games with driver/API support: Already released.

PIX and XACT ported for PC targets and included with the DirectX SDK: Already released.

XNA Studio: Beta still on schedule as promised for GDC 2006.

 

[FightyF]

Can you please inform me for how many months you'll keep using that Alpha kits/Beta kits/one core excuse? 360 is out and you're still using that. Please make it stop.

Start using your brains people! It's only been out for a month! Do you think one month more with the kits is enough time for every developer to use all 3 cores?

FOR GOD'S SAKE USE YOUR BRAINS!!

 

[FightyF]

I'm not specifically talking about the launch. Games like Gears of War is maybe called a second-gen Xbox 360 game, but I doubt Halo 3 or other later games can surpass it as an n-generation game.

Oh it will surpass it by a great margin.

GoW faces an early deadline. They could probably get the UE 3.0 engine to take advantage of the hardware if they had more time, but they don't have that, unless they want to delay it to Winter 2006.

USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE!!

 

[Striek]

XNA Studio: Beta still on schedule as promised for GDC 2006.

Wasn't the initial promise for Beta late this year?

Oh it will surpass it by a great margin.

Thats hopeful. Halo 3's release date is unknown and the second was not the greatest looker on the Xbox even at the time it was released. We have no reason to believe it will match let alone surpass GoW. Not saying it won't, but we have as much for that as we do for PS3 titles matching or exceeding MGS4 (or even the tech demos).

Do you think one month more with the kits is enough time for every developer to use all 3 cores?

All 3 were used in some form in launch titles. Optimised? Not completely. But used they were.

GoW faces an early deadline. They could probably get the UE 3.0 engine to take advantage of the hardware if they had more time, but they don't have that, unless they want to delay it to Winter 2006.

You're trying to imply that UE3 isn't using the hardware? They could further optimise it but to say it like that is misleading and clearly untrue. Doesn't gel with what Epic is saying about UE3 and especially GoW, anyway.

USE YOUR BRAIN!!!

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Can you please inform me for how many months you'll keep using that Alpha kits/Beta kits/one core excuse? 360 is out and you're still using that. Please make it stop.

I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend

I defend PS3

Hmm, found my answer, moving on.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p1.html

Microsoft finally delivered Beta Development Kits in June, several weeks after they were promised to developers.......The Beta Kit architecture much more closely resembled the final console architecture, it showed real processing power, and it gave programmers a much clearer idea of how to address the totally new multi-core processors, which game developers had never seen before.


http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p2.html

In mid- to late-August, IGN learned, developers received the Final Development Kits, three months prior to launch.

October 2, 2005 is the date of this article BTW

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p3.html

IGN learned that all developers have submitted their final code to Microsoft's Quality Assurance team, and the final stages of development - tweaking, polishing, bug-fixing, and optimizing -- has commenced.


So, CPU tech that they have never seen, plus a GPU that they have never seen. Second generation titles will take advantage of it more.

RSX is based off of existing technology, it's easier to forecast what you are going to do with it. Plus the fact that the GPU was SLI'ed from the beginning. PS3 developers know or should know exactly what they can do, 360 devs are just getting to that point.

 

[mashoutposse]

So, CPU tech that they have never seen, plus a GPU that they have never seen. Second generation titles will take advantage of it more.

RSX is based off of existing technology, it's easier to forecast what you are going to do with it. Plus the fact that the GPU was SLI'ed from the beginning. PS3 developers know or should know exactly what they can do, 360 devs are just getting to that point.

Developers have seen Cell before?

And I highly doubt that Xenos is all-new and completely different from existing ATi hardware.

 

[fortified_concept]

I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend



Hmm, found my answer, moving on.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p1.html

Microsoft finally delivered Beta Development Kits in June, several weeks after they were promised to developers.......The Beta Kit architecture much more closely resembled the final console architecture, it showed real processing power, and it gave programmers a much clearer idea of how to address the totally new multi-core processors, which game developers had never seen before.


http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p2.html

In mid- to late-August, IGN learned, developers received the Final Development Kits, three months prior to launch.

October 2, 2005 is the date of this article BTW

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655273p3.html

IGN learned that all developers have submitted their final code to Microsoft's Quality Assurance team, and the final stages of development - tweaking, polishing, bug-fixing, and optimizing -- has commenced.


So, CPU tech that they have never seen, plus a GPU that they have never seen. Second generation titles will take advantage of it more.

RSX is based off of existing technology, it's easier to forecast what you are going to do with it. Plus the fact that the GPU was SLI'ed from the beginning. PS3 developers know or should know exactly what they can do, 360 devs are just getting to that point.

At least I'm frank about it... unlike you. Anyway don't you think this excuse is getting old? Alpha kits then Beta kits then one core. It has turned into a joke nowadays. And my question was real btw.

Tell me for how many months you'll keep using that excuse. Give me a timeline. Cause you now till a few months ago we had the "wait till final kits come out!" now we have the "wait till... something better comes out?". I don't know you should drop that excuse some day.

 

[Liquid]

And I highly doubt that Xenos is all-new and completely different from existing ATi hardware.

architecturally, it is. a shame about its r420ish performance, though.

 

[Fafalada]

Plus the fact that the GPU was SLI'ed from the beginning.

I would really like to know where people get these "facts".

 

[mashoutposse]

architecturally, it is. a shame about its r420ish performance, though.

Ah OK, I retract that statement.

 

[Striek]

And I highly doubt that Xenos is all-new and completely different from existing ATi hardware.

It is. Well, as different as GPUs can be. However ease of development was apparently the reason it was designed the way it was. It should take some getting used to, but not years. But we are going to have the "wait for 3rd generation" comments I guarentee (even though its down right contradictive to MS's comments).

 

[DCharlie]

"you shouldn't have posted anything, then. i mean, why take the time to type something up, then edit it out? unless......"

it was a one line insult - i just can't be arsed with all the banter, so i removed it.

 

[Liquid]

it was a one line insult - i just can't be arsed with all the banter, so i removed it.

i'm just messing with you. don't pay me any mind. ;(

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

At least I'm frank about it... unlike you.

My avatar speaks in much more volume than anybody here. Look at my history, 90% of my posts on the gaming discussion forum on in 360 threads. Still doesn't mean I go off talkin crazy because it makes me feel better about my favorite console. I said, the PS3 development environment was better. Is that opinion, no, that is fact. About the GPU being unique, I'll let the most unbiased person I can think of discuss the card

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=7

The GPU in the Xbox 360 uses a different architecture than we are used to seeing

Performance of this hardware is a very difficult aspect to assess without testing the system. The potential is there for some nice gains over the current high end desktop part, but it is very difficult to know how easily software engineers will be able to functionally use the hardware before they fully understand it and have programmed for it for a while. Certainly, the learning curve won't be as steep as something like the PlayStation 2 was (DirectX is still the API), but knowing what works and what doesn't will take some time.

architecturally, it is. a shame about its r420ish performance, though.

What are you talking about?

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24827

Looking at R520 and R500(Xenos), which one, in layman's terms is
more powerful?

Michael Doggett - Designer of the Xenos card: These 2 chips aren't designed for the same use. R520 is a high end PC
graphics chip, while Xenos (it's not R500) is designed for a home
console. You might consider Xenos more powerful since it has 48 shaders,
while R520 has effectively 16 (x2 ALU) pixel shaders plus 8 vertex
shaders. But with the higher clock speed of 520 it comes out close in
terms of raw shader ALU. But when comparing memory bandwidth, Xenos is
more powerful due to the high memory bandwidth to the EDRAM chip.

 

[Davew49]

Tell me for how many months you'll keep using that excuse. Give me a timeline. Cause you now till a few months ago we had the "wait till final kits come out!" now we have the "wait till... something better comes out?". I don't know you should drop that excuse some day.

I sure hope that when/if devs start stating that they "only" used x number of SPE units in their PS3 games, that we hear you claiming that as an "excuse" as well. I just have a feeling the hypocrisy will be in full swing when "rushed" PS3 games hit the scene.

IMO totally of course.

DAVEW

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I would really like to know where people get these "facts".

Following news on Nvidia sites and Sony-centric sites. It follows this loosely, 6600's SLI'ed, then 7800s, then the RSX for finals. All of my info is from them. Are they wrong? I'm way more in-tune to the 360 side of things, so I could be wrong.

 

[Liquid]

useless pr garbage

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=8

 

[fortified_concept]

I sure hope that when/if devs start stating that they "only" used x number of SPE units in their PS3 games, that we hear you claiming that as an "excuse" as well. I just have a feeling the hypocrisy will be in full swing when "rushed" PS3 games hit the scene.

IMO totally of course.

DAVEW

I will. Stupid excuses piss me off no matter which side makes them.

 

[Davew49]

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=8

Seems to me that this is Anandtechs "opinion" of the relative shader power compared to a traditional GPU architecture from ATI. Personally, how exactly did they come to that conclusion, and why should we believe them over the engineer that actually worked on the chip [Xenos]? And considering that there is no 24 pipe card in ATI's traditional architecture, I have some doubts to the merits of their hypothesis.

Of course totaly my assumption of the scenerio, I suppose we should be careful when taking the words of anyone at face value, but in the end for the Michael Doggett to say things that just are totally inaccurate would be pretty ridiculous on his part, he is after all not a PR specialist.

DAVEW

 

[Davew49]

I will. Stupid excuses piss me off no matter which side makes them.

Fair enough, hopefully more people will be more "even keeled" in the future as you seem to be.


DAVEW

 

[fortified_concept]

Seems to me that this is Anandtechs "opinion" of the relative shader power compared to a traditional GPU architecture from ATI. Personally, how exactly did they come to that conclusion, and why should we believe them over the engineer that actually worked on the chip [Xenos]? And considering that there is no 24 pipe card in ATI's traditional architecture, I have some doubts to the merits of their hypothesis.

Of course totaly my assumption of the scenerio, I suppose we should be careful when taking the words of anyone at face value, but in the end for the Michael Doggett to say things that just are totally inaccurate would be pretty ridiculous on his part, he is after all not a PR specialist.

DAVEW

Because Xenos' engineer is doing PR like he's supposed to while anandech's opinion is way more objective?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I sure hope that when/if devs start stating that they "only" used x number of SPE units in their PS3 games, that we hear you claiming that as an "excuse" as well. I just have a feeling the hypocrisy will be in full swing when "rushed" PS3 games hit the scene.

IMO totally of course.

DAVEW

This is a good thing that could come out of Sony being slow to show the PS3 playable to the public, they're giving devs enough time to get their engines stable enough to be shown. According to PSM, UT2007 on the PS3 is already very playable and looks very impressive.

 

[Striek]

The potential is there for some nice gains over the current high end desktop part, but it is very difficult to know how easily software engineers will be able to functionally use the hardware before they fully understand it and have programmed for it for a while.

And the potential is even greater for it not to even match current high-end parts. Unified shaders are less powerful than discrete ones, ALUs aren't "complete" shaders, eDRAM can only help save bandwidth so much (especially with necessary tiling at 720p w/AA) it may or may not have been worth it (Sony decided against it, who knows who is right?), clockspeed is only average.

Outside of ATi PR, we will never know.

 

[Davew49]

Because Xenos' engineer is doing PR like he's supposed to while anandech's opinion is way more objective?

How do you know he is "doing PR like he's supposed to"? Why would he make those statements when it's only going to make him look like an ass in the end?

By this take on logic, we should apply this to ALL statments made by any company on anything, because heck it's all PR.

And as for Anandtech for being more objective, sure I can believe that but then I have seen more than one review/opinion where they seemed to miss on a few points. Wasn't it the cell chip that Anandtech was off on some of the points? Maybe i am confusing that with another site but i don't believe so.

DAVEW

 

[gofreak]

i think the cell will help in the efficiencies that the rsx may lack but thats it.

..?

Also, I don't know what will happen, I just know what could happen..

you really think that with devs like activision and EA out there we'll see different sets of animation and physics per port? :lol good luck with that.

Something like physics, you can just turn a dial up or down for all intents and purposes. It's not about maintaining different sets of assets. If you're CPU bound, simply doing things faster could also have a large impact (framerate).

Unified shaders are less powerful than discrete ones

It's a bit hard to tell without benchmarks or the like..

ALUs aren't "complete" shaders

Well there's no definition of what a "complete" shader is - but relative to a nVidia pixel shader, obviously a single ALU looks very thin (more comparable to one of the ALUs within the shader/pipe).

eDRAM can only help save bandwidth so much

This is one point that gets overlooked way too much I think. For all the ruckus over bandwidth issues, if you store the framebuffer in GDDR3 in PS3, it's always going to have more for "everything else" than X360 will. The bandwidth "issue" is not a one way street.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=8

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=1

Graphics-wise the 360's Xenos GPU and the PS3's RSX are fairly different in implementation, but may end up being very similar in performance. Treating Xenos as a 24-pipe R420, it could be quite competitive with a 24-pipe RSX despite a lower clock speed. The unified shader architecture of the Xenos GPU will offer an advantage in the majority of games today where we aren't very geometry limited. The free 4X AA support offered by Xenos is also extremely useful in a console, especially when hooked up to a large TV.

Even with him saying that.

The R420 is SM2.0, Xenos is 3.0 and beyond, that alone shows his basis is off.

 

[McFly]

How do you know he is "doing PR like he's supposed to"? Why would he make those statements when it's only going to make him look like an ass in the end?

Because most people outside gameboards and the industry don't understand more than this PR bull.

Fredi

 

[FightyF]

You're trying to imply that UE3 isn't using the hardware? They could further optimise it but to say it like that is misleading and clearly untrue. Doesn't gel with what Epic is saying about UE3 and especially GoW, anyway.

I remember reading an article on Planet Unreal around a month ago that stated they were only using one core for GoW at this point.

I'm sure by even 2007 we'll see many more optimizations. Look at UC2 compared to UC for example.

 

[Amir0x]

Dude. Spill the beans..

Is UT2007 eventually going to make it to the 360?

<_<

At the EPICENTER OF THE GAMING UNIVERSE™, aka Microsoft's Zero Hour party, Mark Rein commented that he would like to see UT2k7 on both PS3 and 360. I don't think that's an indication that plans are finalized, but I don't think Mark Rein is passing any free money up. I would almost bet money on it being on both.

 

[Raven.]

Following news on Nvidia sites and Sony-centric sites. It follows this loosely, 6600's SLI'ed, then 7800s, then the RSX for finals. All of my info is from them. Are they wrong? I'm way more in-tune to the 360 side of things, so I could be wrong.

I think it was 6800ultra sli'ed, and there probably was something before those, but those and the 7800s were what's been used for e3/tgs, iirc.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

How do you know he is "doing PR like he's supposed to"? Why would he make those statements when it's only going to make him look like an ass in the end?

By this take on logic, we should apply this to ALL statments made by any company on anything, because heck it's all PR.

And as for Anandtech for being more objective, sure I can believe that but then I have seen more than one review/opinion where they seemed to miss on a few points. Wasn't it the cell chip that Anandtech was off on some of the points? Maybe i am confusing that with another site but i don't believe so.

DAVEW

He calls the SPE's useless. I respect his opinion and site, but sometimes he's way off, this is what he says about the SPE's. I'm not going to say I know more about hardware than him, but I know that he's off on this. These new consoles have thrown him for a loop.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2461
Microsoft's Xbox 360 & Sony's PlayStation 3 - Examples of Poor CPU
Performance

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I think it was 6800ultra sli'ed, and there probably was something before those, but those and the 7800s were what's been used for e3/tgs, iirc.

thanks

 

[Davew49]

Because most people outside gameboards and the industry don't understand more than this PR bull.

Fredi

That makes no sense then, his comments obvously were intened for the crowd that "understands" something about GPUs the different variations of them and differences in speed vs efficiency. Seems to me that if his quotes were intended for a target audience like ours, he would be best served to state something more factual than just pure bull shit.

My opinon of course.

DAVEW

 

[FightyF]

Oh was 2 months ago, sorry:

GS: Will the framerate be improving?

MR: Well we've been working on this (actual hardware) like I say, for about two weeks [as of Tokyo Game Show]. We've done very little optimization, I'd like to say the lowest of low-hanging fruit optimization. We're only running on a single core now, so we'll get at least double that, it'll be super smooth. We didn't even expect to get onto the final box until X05, and here we are. So the Xbox 360 really exceeded our expectations.

 

[Nightbringer]

I can see the RSX like a coprocessor of the Cell instead of an independent processor. A lot of function will be executed using the RSX and Cell at the same time with the FlexIO.

Basically PS3 will have a G70 with 24 Pixel Pixels, 8 Vertex Pipes and running at 550Mhz, but thanks to the Cell help it will be more efficient thant the equivalent in PC.

The real question is how efficient.

 

[Fafalada]

All of my info is from them. Are they wrong? I'm way more in-tune to the 360 side of things, so I could be wrong.

While I haven't used the earliest devkits personally - I've never heard of any such thing as SLI-ed GPUs inside any revision.

 

[McFly]

That makes no sense then, his comments obvously were intened for the crowd that "understands" something about GPUs the different variations of them and differences in speed vs efficiency. Seems to me that if his quotes were intended for a target audience like ours, he would be best served to state something more factual than just pure bull shit.

My opinon of course.

DAVEW

The tech words make it sound like some really smart guy is talking about stuff he knows. The uninformed don't need to understand those tech details, they just have to read "better as PS3" or something like that somewhere in it (mostly in the headline) and than they think something like "this guy is so much smarter than I and he says the 360 is better, so it must be true".

Fredi

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

While I haven't used the earliest devkits personally - I've never heard of any such thing as SLI-ed GPUs inside any revision.

Basically every kind of site makes reference to it

http://www.ps3power.com/motorstorm-realtime.htm

Motor Storm CEO finally puts the rumors to rest... The E3 trailer footage was realtime running on the PS3 Alpha kits with the 6800 SLI and a slower cell processor. I do have one caveot the AI was turned off to showcase the visuals.


Other sites echo the same thing.

 

[Nightbringer]

Basically every kind of site makes reference to it

http://www.ps3power.com/motorstorm-realtime.htm

Motor Storm CEO finally puts the rumors to rest... The E3 trailer footage was realtime running on the PS3 Alpha kits with the 6800 SLI and a slower cell processor. I do have one caveot the AI was turned off to showcase the visuals.


Other sites echo the same thing.

I don´t see anything special on the MotorStorm demo that can be done in a 360 running at 60fps in 720p of resolution.

 

[gofreak]

Motor Storm CEO finally puts the rumors to rest... The E3 trailer footage was realtime running on the PS3 Alpha kits with the 6800 SLI and a slower cell processor. I do have one caveot the AI was turned off to showcase the visuals.

That's not a direct quote from Evolution's CEO.

He simply said it was "faithful". The site interviewing him extrapolated from that.

For what it's worth, a guy working at SCEE, on B3D, says there's "never" been a PS3 kit with SLIed GPUs. Always one PCI Express 4x chip.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

That's not a direct quote from Evolution's CEO.

He simply said it was "faithful". The site interviewing him extrapolated from that.

For what it's worth, a guy working at SCEE, on B3D, says there's "never" been a PS3 kit with SLIed GPUs. Always one PCI Express 4x chip.

He'd know, no SLI then

 

[Nightbringer]

Take the benchmarks comparisions between the GeForce6800 and the GeForce7800 and we will know the jump between the Alpha Kits and the Beta Kits.

 

[MrSingh]

it was a one line insult - i just can't be arsed with all the banter, so i removed it.

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[DCharlie]

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[Funky Papa]

I just can't believe this thread hit six pages.

Company A: Our competition sux lol
Company B: No, we rox, they sux rofl
GAF: lets argue!

Everytime I click on the gaming forum I fear for my sanity.

 

[Haklong]

PGR3 and Kameo are amongst the cream of the crop amongst developed or in-development games from my perspective. Gears of War looks great in cutscenes, but otherwise its not really a leap nor a bound ahead. That Bioware game, name escapes me, is probably the best looking X360 game ATM. Thing is, we saw all these titles before the console released. We have no indication its going to get better, just like PS3. Understanding and history tell us both will though.

Come on now, are you serious? Gears of War looks far better than Mass Effect. It looks like the PS3 game you PS3 fanboys are so happy about, UT2007. And don't say dumb crap like, it only looks good in cutscenes because the PS3's best game was a damn cutscene, MGS4. When Gears of War ships it will be the best looking game available, period. Anyone who has seen the damn game says so. So far I have seen 1 PS3 game played and that was Fatal Enertia. It looks like an XBOX game.

Check the Zero Hour footage of Gears:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1650

Video here: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/fatalinertia/media.html

Why do Sony fanboys dismiss any negative comments on the PS3 as BS but the ones toward MS is the gospel truth. So far developers in the middle say they are similar, the ones on each others camps spin their BS and say theirs is better. I'm in the middle, looking at the specs I think they will be very similar.
www.anandtech.com Do not make games. And because they make a broad comment about the XENOS does not make it fact. They did not benchmark it so their comment holds no water. Same with the SPE being worthless. Let's wait for the developers to show us different.

Both systems are going to show us great games with amazing graphics. Both systems will not contain the same graphics as their launch titles. If you believe the best the PS3 can do is MGS4, then you are wrong. Same with the 360. Developing your game on unfinished dev kits to have it at launch and then getting it 2 months before did not help.

I think Sony and it's fanboys are blowing it's "power" way out of proportion and MS ones are dodging what Sony does have in it's avantage, the Playstation name. I think it's going to be a developer issue this gen. Good ones will make BOTH shine in the graphics but it's the games that will make one or the other win this so called "war".

 

[ThirdEye]

Come on now, are you serious? Gears of War looks far better than Mass Effect. It looks like the PS3 game you PS3 fanboys are so happy about, UT2007. And don't say dumb crap like, it only looks good in cutscenes because the PS3's best game was a damn cutscene, MGS4. When Gears of War ships it will be the best looking game available, period. Anyone who has seen the damn game says so. So far I have seen 1 PS3 game played and that was Fatal Enertia. It looks like an XBOX game.

Check the Zero Hour footage of Gears:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1650

Video here: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/fatalinertia/media.html

Why do Sony fanboys dismiss any negative comments on the PS3 as BS but the ones toward MS is the gospel truth. So far developers in the middle say they are similar, the ones on each others camps spin their BS and say theirs is better. I'm in the middle, looking at the specs I think they will be very similar.
www.anandtech.com Do not make games. And because they make a broad comment about the XENOS does not make it fact. They did not benchmark it so their comment holds no water. Same with the SPE being worthless. Let's wait for the developers to show us different.

Both systems are going to show us great games with amazing graphics. Both systems will not contain the same graphics as their launch titles. If you believe the best the PS3 can do is MGS4, then you are wrong. Same with the 360. Developing your game on unfinished dev kits to have it at launch and then getting it 2 months before did not help.

I think Sony and it's fanboys are blowing it's "power" way out of proportion and MS ones are dodging what Sony does have in it's avantage, the Playstation name. I think it's going to be a developer issue this gen. Good ones will make BOTH shine in the graphics but it's the games that will make one or the other win this so called "war".

Then you shouldn't be that defensive. Oh that Huddy guy either. Besides if you don't exactly know the real games on PS3 then just STFU.

 

[Raven.]

Come on now, are you serious? Gears of War looks far better than Mass Effect. It looks like the PS3 game you PS3 fanboys are so happy about, UT2007. And don't say dumb crap like, it only looks good in cutscenes because the PS3's best game was a damn cutscene, MGS4. When Gears of War ships it will be the best looking game available, period. Anyone who has seen the damn game says so. So far I have seen 1 PS3 game played and that was Fatal Enertia. It looks like an XBOX game.

Fatal Inertia does not look like an xbox game, maybe you've seen stills or low-rez vids but I've my kikizo hd trailer right in front of me. That game rivals motorstorm in some shots/scenes(environment-feel wise, not particle wise) and the vehicles and water effects are very smooth looking, not to mention this is probably another 60fps non-final dev. kit demo.