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[DSN2K]

One of our staff contacted ATI to inquiry about the highly debated Doom 3 benchmarks that were recently released, here is what was asked:

"I'm just emailing you because I have alot of confused gamers from both Team Radeon and x-3Dfx about what's really happening in Doom3. What they've been presented paints a relatively poor picture on the x800 Pro and x800 XT PE prompting many fellow gamers (about 400 on Team Radeon and 300 or so on x-3Dfx) to question wether or not they should cancel there pre-orders."

ATI response:

"Hi Richard - this is a non issue - Doom 3 isn't even available yet, and we all know that some of our competitors use partial precision where possible. We expect to have updated drivers available in the coming weeks."

Chris Hook

some standard stuff and a bit of a dig.

...And btw, let's not lose sight of the fact that ATI performance isn't
relatively poor at all. I think Kyle himself said that even the X800pro
delivered 'great' performance, and Carmack said in the HardOCP article that
there's more to consider than just frame rate. The frame rate difference
even today is so minor, it's impossible to tell without diagnostic tools -
ie: the end user experience isn't affected. And with ATI you get
full-precision enabled all the time - we don't do PP (on R3XX and R4XX) like
some of our competitors.

It's also important to note that most of today's games play faster on ATI
hardware, and you can expect that to extend to other 'big title' games
expected this summer.

Chris

Chris Hook

Half-Life 2 anyone ?

 

[Tenguman]

His damage control isn't keeping the 6800 line from flying off the shelves though

 

[xabre]

And with ATI you get
full-precision enabled all the time - we don't do PP (on R3XX and R4XX) like
some of our competitors.

I don't think this argument washes, at least in regards to Doom 3. I mean Doom 3 really isn't that pixel shader heavy is it? Certainly not relative to games like Far Cry or Half Life 2. So how can you make an argument that full or partial precision plays such a significant factor in Doom 3 benchmarks? From what we've seen, the game seems to be more about pushing features like stencil buffering as opposed to pixel shading.

 

[Yusaku]

I mean Doom 3 really isn't that pixel shader heavy is it?

Hahahaha, have you even seen any Doom 3 screenshots?

 

[DopeyFish]

every pixel on the damn screen is shaded

 

[DSN2K]

haha.

 

[Mrbob]

some standard stuff and a bit of a dig.



Half-Life 2 anyone ?

And Farcry!

 

[Tenguman]

Considering this benchmark was done by Carmack himself in the presence of ATI and Nvidia reps, I believe we would have heard of any forced visual reductions from any of those cards before any benchmarks would begin. I don't think Carmack would have left something out like that before running these benchmarks

I'm sure Carmack took every measure to make sure the image quality of both types of cards are exactly the same, and took every advantage the cards had to offer in terms of improving performance without degrading visuals. Doom 3 will look the same on both cards, regardless of any programmer "optimizations" to a peticular card.

You can't change the game now, it's coming out, and Nvidia's cards outperform ATi's offerings. You can point to the PR-statement and say "Well ATi is doing it the CORRECT way..." ---> good for you...but in the end, Nvidia's stuff is running faster AND looking exactly the same.

that is of course if Carmack didn't fail to mention any visual reductions in the report. We won't be 100% sure until the game comes out.

Besides, ATi's poorer performance is probably due to their OpenGL drivers more than anything. Nvidia really has more experience writing OpenGL drivers than ATi -- especially given the fact that Nvidia has swallowed up all of 3dfx's driver teams and engineers.

 

[xabre]

Hahahaha, have you even seen any Doom 3 screenshots?

every pixel on the damn screen is shaded

haha.

Ok, shit.

Alright put it this way, we're talking PS1.4 aren't we? Not DirectX 9 PS2.0 which I've been led to believe Doom 3 doesn't support on the level of Far Cry or Half Life 2? Doesn't PS1.4 only require 16Bit fp precesion thus invalidating this guys argument?

 

[teiresias]

IMO, Doom3 is just the latest game to illustrate ATI's shitty OpenGL driver implementation. Neverwinter Nights was the first game that this issue affected, and it's still really the only game I'd like to get a nice boost in performance in since I doubt I'll ever play Doom3 (not a big FPS person - except for that upcoming Vampire game, that looks sweet )

 

[Ghost]

Do you think either ATi or nVidia will ever just say "yeah, their cards perform better than ours in that game"?

 

[Yusaku]

Ok, shit.

Alright put it this way, we're talking PS1.4 aren't we? Not DirectX 9 PS2.0 which I've been led to believe Doom 3 doesn't support on the level of Far Cry or Half Life 2? Doesn't PS1.4 only require 16Bit fp precesion thus invalidating this guys argument?

Doom 3 is OpenGL.

 

[ravingloon]

Considering this benchmark was done by Carmack himself in the presence of ATI and Nvidia reps, I believe we would have heard of any forced visual reductions from any of those cards before any benchmarks would begin. I don't think Carmack would have left something out like that before running these benchmarks.

"and Carmack said in the HardOCP article that there's more to consider than just frame rate."


Something about that quote strikes me Carmack being diplomatic to antics he doesn't approve of. Or I'm totally misreading it. But in this industry, it's always wiser to read between the lines.

 

[Yusaku]

It's funny they cite Doom 3 not being available yet as an excuse for poor performance. It was benched on the FINAL RETAIL version of Doom 3 that we'll all be playing in a few weeks.

As a happy 9800 Pro owner I'm kind of happy, I want competition between the two companies. I don't want to see Nvidia fall like 3dfx did.

 

[mashoutposse]

"and Carmack said in the HardOCP article that there's more to consider than just frame rate."


Something about that quote strikes me Carmack being diplomatic to antics he doesn't approve of. Or I'm totally misreading it. But in this industry, it's always wiser to read between the lines.

Or maybe he doesn't want the other 99% of the gaming population without a top of the line card to feel that DOOM 3 will be ugly/unenjoyable on their hardware.

 

[marsomega]

His damage control isn't keeping the 6800 line from flying off the shelves though

So are ATI's offerings, whats the point.

 

[bishoptl]

the point is you touch yourself at night