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[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Johanna who?

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>.>

 

[iamblades]

You're assuming the step of converting to freshwater is required. Are we sure that's the case?

The point of seawater-to-freshwater conversion is to yield fresh water, which is not the goal here. They are only after the hydrogen. So is that definitely required?

Yeah if they are putting it through electrolysis anyway, it doesn't matter(aside from perhaps increasing upkeep costs of the equipment). You also can get chlorine gas as a byproduct when you do saltwater electrolysis, but as I understand it that is avoidable with proper engineering.

 

[Raistlin]

Yeah if they are putting it through electrolysis anyway, it doesn't matter(aside from perhaps increasing upkeep costs of the equipment). You also can get chlorine gas as a byproduct when you do saltwater electrolysis, but as I understand it that is avoidable with proper engineering.

Yeah that is my (limited) understanding. It's more an issue of maintenance. You're using conductive materials as electrodes, which can deteriorate due to salt ... you need to clean deposits of bypoducts ... etc.

 

[AP90]

So how is any different from using hydrogen fuel cells, where the end product released is water?

Granted takes a lot of energy to create aka emissions in the pre generation, but technically so does Audis e-diesel..

Interesting to see where it goes..

 

[Delusibeta]

Honestly? Sounds kinda like troll chemistry, tbh.

 

[Coriolanus]

Because the majority of people won't change to an e-vehicle in the next ten to twenty years? Sure it's more efficient to use electricity directly, but that's just not going to happen in the short term, meanwhile the cost of renewable energy production have decreased steadily over the years. Think of it more as an energy storage medium which just happens to have 70% efficiency. They mentioned that the initial plan is to mix it with standard diesel fuel in order to reduce dependency on oil production, this could be a start.

Because the majority of people don't own an electric vehicle and this can use the current refueling infrastructure.

Electric cars would be better but we will need stopgaps before getting there.

Majority of cars don't run on diesel either. Or e-diesel. Might as well buy hybrids and avoid the whole ordeal.

 

[Nikodemos]

dependent on the cost of renewable electricity.

Or, as it coincidentally happens, the cost of natural gas.

 

[Raistlin]

So how is any different from using hydrogen fuel cells, where the end product released is water?

Granted takes a lot of energy to create aka emissions in the pre generation, but technically so does Audis e-diesel..

Interesting to see where it goes..

Would be much easier in terms of costs and wide-scale distribution.

You can re-use the same infrastructure we currently employ for diesel / regularly unleaded fuel (shipping, usage of normal gas stations for the end-user, etc) ... existing diesel engines can use this fuel, meaning we already have large-scale mass production available for making the cars ... etc.

 

[Raistlin]

Honestly? Sounds kinda like troll chemistry, tbh.

If anything, automatically assuming electric cars are a better alternative currently is troll science.

Majority of cars don't run on diesel either. Or e-diesel. Might as well buy hybrids and avoid the whole ordeal.

Except most hybrids use normal unleaded fuel. Yes they use less, but they still use it.

Coupling a hybrid engine with this fuel could be a great usage.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Because the majority of people won't change to an e-vehicle in the next ten to twenty years? Sure it's more efficient to use electricity directly, but that's just not going to happen in the short term, meanwhile the cost of renewable energy production have decreased steadily over the years. Think of it more as an energy storage medium which just happens to have 70% efficiency. They mentioned that the initial plan is to mix it with standard diesel fuel in order to reduce dependency on oil production, this could be a start.

It's not 70 percent efficient.

it's 70 percent during conversion then 20 percent efficiency when burning it, so it's 14 percent efficiency.
An electric engine = no fuel conversion and then 80 percent efficiency for the engine
You can drive 80 miles with an electric engine with the same amount of electricity that it takes to drive 14 miles with a diesel car that burns this fuel.

Don't be fooled by some clever (misleading) wording in the article

 

[ElyrionX]

It's probably not net energy positive.

 

[sinxtanx]

It's probably not net energy positive.

Provide a solution that is and claim your Nobel prize today

 

[jillytot]

Yea let's just glaze over the refinement process, or more importantly, the energy cost of creating "blue crude".

 

[davepoobond]

It's probably not net energy positive.

how much energy does it take to get oil out of the ground, shipped, refined, etc etc?

is oil anymore energy positive than this? i doubt it.

Yea let's just glaze over the refinement process, or more importantly, the energy cost of creating "blue crude".

the energy comes from green sources, so they weren't being used before at all or captured for use.

i think the point is that it can reduce the net amount of carbon pollution in the air. for some reason i think that carbon pollution is a mite more important than energy balance at the moment.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

In before conservatives bash on it because it has carbon dioxide.

 

[Raistlin]

It's not 70 percent efficient.

it's 70 percent during conversion then 20 percent efficiency when burning it, so it's 14 percent efficiency.
An electric engine = no fuel conversion and then 80 percent efficiency for the engine
You can drive 80 miles with an electric engine with the same amount of electricity that it takes to drive 14 miles with a diesel car that burns this fuel.

Don't be fooled by some clever (misleading) wording in the article

How energy efficient is the overall grid that is needed to charge your electric car currently?

How energy efficient and ecologically damaging is getting the materials used for batteries, etc in said electric cars?

Given the current costs to manufacture such vehicles and the lack of infrastructure for recharging, what user footprint is realistically viable for electric cars right now? In the next 5 years? 10?





Given the current (and short-mid-term) infrastructure in most regions and costs / limitations of ownership ... electric cars are not a panacea. Not yet.

 

[Coriolanus]

IfExcept most hybrids use normal unleaded fuel. Yes they use less, but they still use it.

Coupling a hybrid engine with this fuel could be a great usage.

Depends on the hybrid. Either way, given the massive energy cost to produce e-diesel, there still remains no reason to throw away all the extra electricity needed to create it.

This is about as realistic as hydrogen powered cars.

 

[Raistlin]

In before conservatives bash on it because it has carbon dioxide.

If anything, it sounds like liberals are the ones bashing it. At least here.

 

[AuthenticM]

Cool, but how much of an impact on fresh water reserves will this have if it catches on ?

 

[lenos16]

Majority of cars don't run on diesel either. Or e-diesel. Might as well buy hybrids and avoid the whole ordeal.

Not in Germany though. Where diesel motors are nearly as popular as standard gas.

 

[Cat Party]

What is going on in this thread? Why do people think we're running out of fresh water all of the sudden? Knee jerk reaction to California's drought?

 

[iamblades]

It's probably not net energy positive.

Nothing is energy positive. That's the first law of thermodynamics.

70% is pretty damn efficient for effectively creating synthetic petroleum though.

It's all about taking that energy and putting it in a form that can be effectively utilized to do work.

 

[V_Arnold]

What is going on in this thread? Why do people think we're running out of fresh water all of the sudden? Knee jerk reaction to California's drought?

Probably has something to do with there being lots of posters from US, I guess.

 

[Javaman]

Oh man, that's great! Hydrogen itself has too many storage and energy density issues, but this would solve a lot of that.

 

[Javaman]

Can't open link. But like... fresh water?

I mean if it were from the sea or something, okay. That's cool. But eh. Seems wasteful. //shrugs

It might be preferable to use ocean water since it already has salt in it which would allow them to do electrolysis without adding anything to the water. You need an electrolyte in order to convert water to H and O.

 

[Raistlin]

What's an ideal vehicle currently available to consumers in your opinion?

That depends on where you live