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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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B

Bernbaum

Member


This was the banner as of late 2013, which for some reason featured a Coalition backbencher:

fKQEMuw.jpg


This is the AusPoliGAF thread. It used to be the 2013 election thread and has since been appropriated as a catch-all Australian politics thread.

Here you can discuss Australian politics.

All the old chestnuts of online political discussion are here for you to engage in and enjoy: ad hominem attacks on politicians, ad hominem attacks on journalists, ad hominem attacks on NeoGAF members. Go HOG WILD.

You can choose to be thoughtful and articulate; you can slyly play Devil's Advocate (a-la Fredescu); or you can throw around disposable slogans like 'progressive echo-chamber'.

Here is the OP as it appeared at the launch of the 2013 federal election campaign:

-

The Australia Election was called this weekend for September 7th. Whoop de do.

Here are the candidates:

Kevin Rudd

J7AQeDt.jpg


Pros:

(no entry)

Cons:

- Speaks in a language no-one understands.
- Is a micromanaging cunt hated by entirety of closest colleagues.
- Will stop the boats.

Tony Abbot

MaMZLSP.jpg


Pros:

(no entry)

Cons:

- Is Howard's equal in archaic social policy but without any of his deft communicative sidestepping skills.
- Is an uncharismatic cunt hated by entirety of voting populace under the age of 80.
- Will stop the boats.

Presidog

nckaxJA.gif


Pros:

- Is the president.

Cons:

- Is also a dog.
 
B

Beaniedude

Member
I for one will pledge my allegiance to Presidog.
I don't care if there are laws banning him winning the seat because he is already a president or a dog, he hasn't said he will stop the boats so I will wholeheartedly wish he gets in.

Urgh,
I still can't believe that "Stopping the boats" is a thing.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Omi said:
Shouldn't this get moved to the community forum? Not going to see much action here!
Click to expand...
To or from? It already is, and I don't think it's going to see *any* action in here.

Unless someone already moved it here, which is a bit silly.

Also, great OP from Bernie, needs moar links to Presidog.
 
G

Gazunta

Member
I'm dreading the next phone call with my father in law. He lives in Western Sydney. Politically speaking he is more important than anyone else in the country.

Seriously what the fuck is up with politicians falling over themselves to appease Western Sydney? What am I missing?
 
G

Gazunta

Member
Prosthetic limbs are just as good as real ones for dog humping, and are easier to clean.

Thanks for the read Fred. Really interesting. I think it might also have something to do with a larger sense of community there. I have nothing in common with anyone who lives near me and have no idea what they like because nobody talks :)

In other news, it really is an election between Labor and Murdoch. Big media has always hated the internet in the same way dinosaurs always hated the meteors.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Megadrive said:
Both do/should. At least I remember the liberals pushing forward their own less-fast internet scheme.
Click to expand...

I assume he means which one of the two is faster in speed, which is the Labor FTTP scheme. Without knowing what connection he has currently, the Lib minimum of 25 mbps could be a downgrade for him.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
And just because it comes up every time there is an election anywhere in the world, Australia uses a preferential voting system, so you cannot throw away your vote even if you vote for a party that cannot win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_electoral_system#Preferential_voting

Australia uses various forms of preferential voting for almost all elections. Under this system, voters number the candidates on the ballot paper in the order of their preference. The preferential system was introduced in 1918, in response to the rise of the Country Party, a party representing small farmers. The Country Party split the anti-Labor vote in conservative country areas, allowing Labor candidates to win on a minority vote. The conservative government of Billy Hughes introduced preferential voting as a means of allowing competition between the two conservative parties without putting seats at risk. It was first used at the Corangamite by-election on 14 December 1918.[17][18] It had previously been introduced as a result of the work of Thomas Hare and Andrew Inglis Clark in the Tasmanian House of Assembly.

Preferential voting has gradually extended to both upper and lower houses, in the federal, state and territory legislatures, and is also used in municipal elections, and most other kinds of elections as well, such as internal political party elections, trade union elections, church elections, elections to company boards and elections in voluntary bodies such as football clubs. Negotiations for disposition of preference recommendations to voters are taken very seriously by candidates because transferred preferences carry the same weight as primary votes. The federal Senate electoral system and those for some state legislatures now provide for simultaneous registration of party-listed candidates and party-determined orders of voting preference, known as 'group voting tickets'.

Under this system, voters can opt to either 'vote above the line' simply by placing the number '1' in a single box or to 'vote below the line' by numbering a large number of individual candidate's boxes in the order of their own preference. In the latter option, there is a risk that the vote will be declared invalid ('informal') if any number in the sequence is inadvertently duplicated or omitted. However, an estimated 95% of all votes are cast 'above the line',[19] meaning that the precise valuation of those votes is passed to the control of the party receiving the single primary vote. The electoral authority automatically allocates preferences, or votes, in the predetermined order outlined in the group voting ticket. Each party or group can register up to three group voting tickets. This highly complex system has potential for unexpected outcomes[citation needed], including the possible election of a candidate who may have initially received an insignificant primary vote tally.

At some polling places in the Australian Capital Territory, voters may choose between voting electronically or on paper.[20] Otherwise, Australian elections are carried out using paper ballots.

The main elements[21] of the operation of preferential voting are as follows:

Voters are required to place the number "1" against the candidate of their choice, known as their "first preference".

Voters are then required to place the numbers "2", "3", etc., against all but one of the other candidates listed on the ballot paper, in order of preference.

The counting of first preference votes, also known as the "primary vote", takes place first. If no candidate secures an absolute majority of primary votes, then the candidate with the fewest votes is "eliminated" from the count.

The ballot papers of the eliminated candidate are re-allocated amongst the remaining candidates according to the number "2", or "second preference" votes.

If no candidate has yet secured an absolute majority of the vote, then the next candidate(s) with the fewest primary votes is eliminated. This preference allocation continues until there is a candidate with an absolute majority. Where a second preference is expressed for a candidate who has already been eliminated, the voter's third or subsequent preferences are used.

Following the full allocation of preferences, it is possible to derive a two-party-preferred figure, where the votes are divided between the two main candidates in the election. In Australia, this is usually between the candidates from the two major parties.
Click to expand...
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Beat me to it Deadman.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. YOU ARE NOT "THROWING YOUR VOTE AWAY" BY VOTING FOR A MINOR PARTY.

The party you vote 1 for gets money for it! (As long as they get a certain percentage of the vote). I would say the most important choices are who you vote 1 for, and which major you prefer. These can be separate decisions. Obviously find out if your electorate has a strong independent in it too.
 
D

DrSlek

Member
Dead Man said:
And just because it comes up every time there is an election anywhere in the world, Australia uses a preferential voting system, so you cannot throw away your vote even if you vote for a party that cannot win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_electoral_system#Preferential_voting
Click to expand...

Remember kids! Always vote below the line. Firstly to be a bastard, and secondly to make the vote counters work for their money. They actually get paid quite a bit for what amounts to a day or 2 of work.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
DrSlek said:
Remember kids! Always vote below the line. Firstly to be a bastard, and secondly to make the vote counters work for their money. They actually get paid quite a bit for what amounts to a day or 2 of work.
Click to expand...

I believe we're getting magnifying glasses to vote below the line this year. The font is so small.

The other reason to vote below the line is that the party you vote for above the line control the preferences entirely, leading to some weird outcomes. I wish we had preferential voting above the line.
 
J

jey_16

Banned
Normally I vote Lib but I just can't this time, don't trust Abbot at all and their policies just seem hopeless. Hopefully they lose and we get Malcom back

The thing about Labour is that they actually have good policies, NBN, Mining Tax, Gonski, Disability Care etc but they just seem to screw up the implementation. The mining tax is the biggest dissapointment for me....the amount of money that has been lost is incredible when you compare us with countries like Norway that have been built up massive sovereign wealth funds to secure their future while here it's all gone to corporate profits and the little that has gone to the government has been wasted on tax cuts and middle class welfare....it's going to hurt us big time in the future
 
A

Acorn

Member
Quick question for my Aussie friends, I have pretty much zero knowledge of your political landscape but I was under the impression that Aus has been doing fairly well the last few years due to the growth of China as a major trading partner.

That being said, if the economy is running nicely(?) why are your politics so unstable?
 
B

bomma_man

Member
DrSlek said:
Remember kids! Always vote below the line. Firstly to be a bastard, and secondly to make the vote counters work for their money. They actually get paid quite a bit for what amounts to a day or 2 of work.
Click to expand...

Being able to put Eric Abetz last is soooooooo satisfying
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
Acorn said:
Quick question for my Aussie friends, I have pretty much zero knowledge of your political landscape but I was under the impression that Aus has been doing fairly well the last few years due to the growth of China as a major trading partner.

That being said, if the economy is running nicely(?) why are your politics so unstable?
Click to expand...

Repetitive lies. Populace thinking Australia's economy = Europe's or America's.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
Acorn said:
Quick question for my Aussie friends, I have pretty much zero knowledge of your political landscape but I was under the impression that Aus has been doing fairly well the last few years due to the growth of China as a major trading partner.

That being said, if the economy is running nicely(?) why are your politics so unstable?
Click to expand...
The GFC spooked everyone and made people think the economy was worse than it actually was, with every bit of good news ignored and every bit of bad news blown way out of proportion. There was the sense (for years) that the sky was about to fall on everyone's heads.
 
Hoya Destroyer

Hoya Destroyer

Member
I can see why people dont like Abbott when they see him in the media. He comes across as a bit of a "mean boss" IMO.
Nonetheless, Im voting Liberal because I think the Labor party is genuinely incompetent and the country will suffer for it.
I hate Rudds whole "nerdy, underdog, library kid" shtick too. I think he is a big phony.
 
A

Acorn

Member
CrazedProfessional said:
Repetitive lies. Populace thinking Australia's economy = Europe's or America's.
Click to expand...

viciouskillersquirrel said:
The GFC spooked everyone and made people think the economy was worse than it actually was, with every bit of good news ignored and every bit of bad news blown way out of proportion. There was the sense (for years) that the sky was about to fall on everyone's heads.
Click to expand...

Well that sucks :/ I may be coming from too much a cynical brit angle but did the Murdoch Empire help to amplify that in the media?
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Acorn said:
That being said, if the economy is running nicely(?) why are your politics so unstable?
Click to expand...

That's not an easy question to answer. Compared to the rest of the world we're doing amazingly well. It's a couple of years old now, but here's some good examples of how well we're doing: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/12/08/australian-exceptionalism/

The 2007 election was won by Labor as lead by Kevin Rudd. Rudd was popular with people, but unpopular internally within the party. Every party has factional conflict, but Rudd wasn't really aligned with any of the factions. There were a lot of leaks about Rudd poorly managing things internally, like the micromanaging mentioned in the OP. So as soon as Rudd started to falter in the polls a little, Labor voted him out as leader and installed Julia Gillard as Labor leader and thus as Prime Minister. We don't have a presidential system in Australia, the party decides on their leader, you just vote for your local member. Still, a lot of people see the leader as the person they vote for, and those people were unhappy with their choice being made for them.

Perhaps partially as a result of that, the 2010 election resulted in a hung parliament, meaning neither major party had enough elected members to form government. The parties needed to negotiate with independents and minor parties to form government. To some peoples surprise, two relatively conservative independents agreed to form government with Labor party, rather than the Liberal/National coalition. The coalition felt that they should have won, so they set on a course of constant destabilisation (as predicted: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/08/let-the-great-unhinging-begin/).

Gillard was PM again, but with a minority government, meaning she had to answer to the independents in the lower house, and to the Greens in the upper house. Having pledged to do something about climate change, she tried again to implement an emissions trading scheme, as the Rudd government had attempted to do in the previous term. Needing the Greens approval to do it, they had to agree to their terms to fix the price of carbon for the first few years of the scheme. The opposition branded this a "carbon tax", which Gillard had promised not to implement. She completely lost the messaging on this, and from this point on, nothing she said or did mattered. People lost interest and the polls sunk to historic lows for Labor.

After a few attempts, Labor finally installed Rudd again as leader and the polls rebounded, and they're in with a fighting chance for the coming election. They're still underdogs though. We can bet on politics here and it's generally a pretty good indicator. Labor are at $4 and the Coalition at $1.25.

I left out a lot in that, but I think the "instability" basically comes down to internal politics and a hung parliament. Rudd has pledged to change internal Labor rules so the leader isn't so easy to change, but I think the damage has been done.


Acorn said:
Well that sucks :/ I may be coming from too much a cynical brit angle but did the Murdoch Empire help to amplify that in the media?
Click to expand...

Oh boy, Guess who runs this paper:

BQ0xPLiCMAEshrV.jpg
Click to expand...

Also these:
Oz.jpg
Click to expand...

dailytele.jpg
Click to expand...

Good blog post about it: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/did-you-vote-for-this-man.html
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
as long as the boats are stopped
 
A

Acorn

Member
Fredescu said:
That's not an easy question to answer. Compared to the rest of the world we're doing amazingly well. It's a couple of years old now, but here's some good examples of how well we're doing: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/12/08/australian-exceptionalism/

The 2007 election was won by Labor as lead by Kevin Rudd. Rudd was popular with people, but unpopular internally within the party. Every party has factional conflict, but Rudd wasn't really aligned with any of the factions. There were a lot of leaks about Rudd poorly managing things internally, like the micromanaging mentioned in the OP. So as soon as Rudd started to falter in the polls a little, Labor voted him out as leader and installed Julia Gillard as Labor leader and thus as Prime Minister. We don't have a presidential system in Australia, the party decides on their leader, you just vote for your local member. Still, a lot of people see the leader as the person they vote for, and those people were unhappy with their choice being made for them.

Perhaps partially as a result of that, the 2010 election resulted in a hung parliament, meaning neither major party had enough elected members to form government. The parties needed to negotiate with independents and minor parties to form government. To some peoples surprise, two relatively conservative independents agreed to form government with Labor party, rather than the Liberal/National coalition. The coalition felt that they should have won, so they set on a course of constant destabilisation (as predicted: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/08/let-the-great-unhinging-begin/).

Gillard was PM again, but with a minority government, meaning she had to answer to the independents in the lower house, and to the Greens in the upper house. Having pledged to do something about climate change, she tried again to implement an emissions trading scheme, as the Rudd government had attempted to do in the previous term. Needing the Greens approval to do it, they had to agree to their terms to fix the price of carbon for the first few years of the scheme. The opposition branded this a "carbon tax", which Gillard had promised not to implement. She completely lost the messaging on this, and from this point on, nothing she said or did mattered. People lost interest and the polls sunk to historic lows for Labor.

After a few attempts, Labor finally installed Rudd again as leader and the polls rebounded, and they're in with a fighting chance for the coming election. They're still underdogs though. We can bet on politics here and it's generally a pretty good indicator. Labor are at $4 and the Coalition at $1.25.

I left out a lot in that, but I think the "instability" basically comes down to internal politics and a hung parliament. Rudd has pledged to change internal Labor rules so the leader isn't so easy to change, but I think the damage has been done.




Oh boy, Guess who runs this paper:



Also these:




Good blog post about it: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/did-you-vote-for-this-man.html
Click to expand...

Thank you that was very helpful. Its actually quite striking how similar your politics since 2007 has been to our own in a way (Britain).

Also, fucking Murdoch. He poisons politics wherever he can it seems.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
jey_16 said:
Normally I vote Lib but I just can't this time, don't trust Abbot at all and their policies just seem hopeless. Hopefully they lose and we get Malcom back

The thing about Labour is that they actually have good policies, NBN, Mining Tax, Gonski, Disability Care etc but they just seem to screw up the implementation. The mining tax is the biggest dissapointment for me....the amount of money that has been lost is incredible when you compare us with countries like Norway that have been built up massive sovereign wealth funds to secure their future while here it's all gone to corporate profits and the little that has gone to the government has been wasted on tax cuts and middle class welfare....it's going to hurt us big time in the future
Click to expand...

It's not like the Libs would ever tax resources more. Utterly wasted opportunity by both parties, caving to the fucking mining lobby like that.

Hoya Destroyer said:
I can see why people dont like Abbott when they see him in the media. He comes across as a bit of a "mean boss" IMO.
Nonetheless, Im voting Liberal because I think the Labor party is genuinely incompetent and the country will suffer for it.
I hate Rudds whole "nerdy, underdog, library kid" shtick too. I think he is a big phony.
Click to expand...

Incompetent in what ways?
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
Man, Tony Abbott is going to have to be coached as fuck in order to debate Kevin. Come at the king, ect ect.

50/50 (or 49/51) is a really fucking close election, I mean Queensland is pretty much centre stage and one mistake could change anything.
 
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