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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
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shanshan310
Member
"the rights of the babymakers to stay in the kitchen"
Sorry guys. My appetite for political discussion has been decimated over the holiday period. For some reason I just can't really bring myself to get passionate about it at the moment.
In other news, I got a reply from the immigration minister, and am as a consequence contemplating resigning from the party. I probably won't do it...but still.
In other news, I got a reply from the immigration minister, and am as a consequence contemplating resigning from the party. I probably won't do it...but still.
Care to share?
Oh this is going to be depressing isn't it
The adventures of the white, Christian, professional, heterosexual Anglo-Australian male make for the best history classes, I'm sure.
I must have imagined the private-schooled patrician establishment straining to produce some kind of theme-park mimicry of British moneyed conduct. Alexander Downer was chimerical, yeah.
I must have imagined the private-schooled patrician establishment straining to produce some kind of theme-park mimicry of British moneyed conduct. Alexander Downer was chimerical, yeah.
I won't be posting the entire contents of the letter. I will divulge a bit though.
It seems pretty cut and paste. Like it was based on a template. At least it was signed by him or one of his staffers forging his signature. (I know this happens a bit, on all sides).
I'm a classical liberal, through and through and I think that border protection is important.....but I've talked to a staggering number of people who came to Australia by boat. I've become friends with a few. I ask them, "Why Australia? Why not you know, a country that isn't so ridiculous on the issue?" They always reply that Australia is easier to get to and more importantly, are the only country that will accept them. They said that they have no hope of living normally in Indonesia or Malaysia ever. Applying to the UN for refugee status to America takes about 10 years and they simply can not wait that long.
These people are typically from minorities that the mainstream media doesn't talk about, northern Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc.
Like I said I've become friends with a few, and there have been times we've met and they've looked really dejected and they talk about how the Taliban have just killed their best friend, whose wife was pregnant with their second child, because he was a police officer. Another time it was one of their aunty, a 50+ year old lady, getting brutally raped. I've seen people break down in front of me.
So when I sent a letter to the immigration minister, as a member of his own party who is also a migrant, saying that we should be doing a lot more to stop push factors in these countries, all the while not being mean to these miserable people for the sake of being mean (not quite in those words), I did not expect to get a copy paste template answer about how important our borders are and we're working to eliminate people smugglers without actually touching on any of the issues I raised. The worst part about it was the smug attitude, basically saying that they'll do whatever it takes to stop the boats and it's as if they're doing the world a favour by getting rid of these people smuggling scum. Yes they aren't great people, but they're only fulfilling a market need.
The need of people to get out of really bad situations before they get killed.
Needless to say I'm pissed. I don't think I could ever vote for Labor or Greens for other reasons but I'm feeling a bit disenfranchised right now.
/rant.
It seems pretty cut and paste. Like it was based on a template. At least it was signed by him or one of his staffers forging his signature. (I know this happens a bit, on all sides).
I'm a classical liberal, through and through and I think that border protection is important.....but I've talked to a staggering number of people who came to Australia by boat. I've become friends with a few. I ask them, "Why Australia? Why not you know, a country that isn't so ridiculous on the issue?" They always reply that Australia is easier to get to and more importantly, are the only country that will accept them. They said that they have no hope of living normally in Indonesia or Malaysia ever. Applying to the UN for refugee status to America takes about 10 years and they simply can not wait that long.
These people are typically from minorities that the mainstream media doesn't talk about, northern Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc.
Like I said I've become friends with a few, and there have been times we've met and they've looked really dejected and they talk about how the Taliban have just killed their best friend, whose wife was pregnant with their second child, because he was a police officer. Another time it was one of their aunty, a 50+ year old lady, getting brutally raped. I've seen people break down in front of me.
So when I sent a letter to the immigration minister, as a member of his own party who is also a migrant, saying that we should be doing a lot more to stop push factors in these countries, all the while not being mean to these miserable people for the sake of being mean (not quite in those words), I did not expect to get a copy paste template answer about how important our borders are and we're working to eliminate people smugglers without actually touching on any of the issues I raised. The worst part about it was the smug attitude, basically saying that they'll do whatever it takes to stop the boats and it's as if they're doing the world a favour by getting rid of these people smuggling scum. Yes they aren't great people, but they're only fulfilling a market need.
The need of people to get out of really bad situations before they get killed.
Needless to say I'm pissed. I don't think I could ever vote for Labor or Greens for other reasons but I'm feeling a bit disenfranchised right now.
/rant.
shanshan310
Member
Same here. Since the libs took over I kinda just stopped paying attention to the news. So tired of hearing about bullshit.
I'm sorry to hear that Arksy. That's really awful. You'd think they'd at least take the time to at least read your letter before sending a reply. If they aren't even listening to their own members there's probably no changing their minds on this one
Are there any other smaller parties that align well with your views?
shanshan310
Member
Same here. Since the libs took over I kinda just stopped paying attention to the news. So tired of hearing about bullshit.
I'm sorry to hear that Arksy. That's really awful. You'd think they'd at least take the time to at least read your letter before sending a reply. If they aren't even listening to their own members there's probably no changing their minds on this one
Are there any other smaller parties that align well with your views?
Not really. The liberal democrats are way too pro-gun for my liking and I'm not actually a libertarian in the strict sense. Plus, unlike most people on the right side of politics I'm a huge fan of the trade union movement.
I've decided I'm going to write to some of my fellow wets...such as George Brandis and Chris Pyne to see what they have to say on the issue.
Not really. It is why politicising any curriculum is bullshit. No student in Australia should be disadvantaged because they happened to grow up in a state with loony government. A uniform curriculum creates incentive for people to care about what loony fuckers in other states are doing and helps prevent extreme fuckups from being made with regard to curriculum.
Well yeah...but if you had six different curriculums and one state decided to only teach people Klingon, Astrology and the benefits of a Theocracy you're going to get a lot of families relocating to a less batshit state. The problem here is that if we get a loony national government..that's really it.The only place you can move is overseas. That's why I don't really like one size fits all policies....it stops development and experimentation.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
All of those complaints are stupid, but the one that gets me the most is the one about ANZAC Day. Newsflash Christopher: ANZAC Day is not an historic event, it happens every year. This focus on teaching about the day itself rather than the events it commemorates is bizarre fetishism. Should the kids be learning how to play two-up or something?
Also:
Also:
I don't see Labour Day in that list. Neoliberal bias!
It's not really very easy to move a family interstate given the job market for many industries. Family geographic mobility is not enormous. And sometimes experimentation needs to be done at the school level rather than the whole state level.
Not until we get a Liberal day. *shakes fist*
I'm all up for having individuals schools experiment. The point here is that a smaller area of effect is better for development and progress because by pure luck one area is bound to do it really well and the rest can just try to emulate. With a national curriculum we really don't have anything to really compare it to except other countries....which isn't anywhere near as good..and if the national curriculum deeply flawed (for example, I can't really be arsed getting involved in the culture wars arguments)? Every child in the country suffers.
You are making it much more complicated than it needs to be. It is a school curriculum, not the one true path to enlightenment. A national standard makes sense since as a nation we tend to think (well, we used to) that all people should have the same basic start. Without a national standard, it allows tertiary education providers and employers from interstate to create difficulties for people applying from out of state, damaging the mobility you think will be key to it working.
There is no argument for state curriculum that cannot be met by small scale trials of things, other than ones that devolve to just not wanting a uniform curriculum.
And one size fits all is a bit of a laughable thing to worry about. Every person has a base level of knowledge they need to attain, so that one size fits all aspect will always be there, and even if you have state curriculum, it will still be one size fits all for the people in that state, unless their parents are able to get up and move over something like they list of people covered in their history class. Which isn't going to happen that often.
I think that's it's important to distinguish a curriculum from a standard. I'd be all in favour of having national standards...but that's quite distinct from a curriculum which involves a lesson plan. Standards are not the same as standardisation.
Having a national standard and having a devolved curriculum are not mutually exclusive at all.
Edit: As an aside, how do we rank worldwide for education?
The focus on the ANZAC legend confuses me too. We focus too much on the bravery itself and not the significance of that bravery in the context of the ground-troops being fucked over by command. Surely we're the only country in the world that fetishises a battle that we fucking lost like this and the way that we treat the Turks and Gallipoli during the celebrations is disgusting.
shanshan310
Member
>< It was late and I was just thinking of federal gov.The QLD Government are Liberals, Shan
We didn't cover either world war when I was at school, although we did talk A LOT about the Anzac legend :| Soldiers' experiences completely devoid of any context at all. Everyone knew what Gallipoli was, but no one could say which country it was in, which war the battle took place in or what happened. I'd bet good money the curriculum is heading back to that kind of nonsense.
Probably :/
http://theaimn.com/2014/01/12/you-are-a-disgrace-to-our-nation/
Wow, ouch. I have never seen a Journalist explode in such a fashion before. Truth bombs incoming.
Wow, ouch. I have never seen a Journalist explode in such a fashion before. Truth bombs incoming.
shanshan310
Member
Not this crap again. Incredibly racist compared to whom exactly?Australia is an incredibly racist nation so the 60% poll figure doesn't surprise me in the least. It still makes my heart wrench though.
I can say with certainty that as a somewhat brown guy whose parents come from a Muslim country, (Turkey) I've never actually experienced any racism that didn't come from my friends in terms of a joke.
In saying that I've lived here my entire life and people just really assume that I'm just Greek.
Still..I can totally understand where that journalist is coming from. It makes my blood boil too.
I was really disgusted when I was overseas and I heard Rudd say that people who came to this country were never going to be allowed to settle here. It almost made me sick when the coalition basically accepted that policy even after people like Hockey came out and said that it was 'quite cruel.'
But what can I do? :/
In saying that I've lived here my entire life and people just really assume that I'm just Greek.
Still..I can totally understand where that journalist is coming from. It makes my blood boil too.
I was really disgusted when I was overseas and I heard Rudd say that people who came to this country were never going to be allowed to settle here. It almost made me sick when the coalition basically accepted that policy even after people like Hockey came out and said that it was 'quite cruel.'
But what can I do? :/
AdventureRacing
Member
I know quite a few people i would consider quite racist (a scary amount actually) but none of them would ever do it to someones face.
As do I, inside my own family. They would never abuse a foreigner in public but they have no trouble ranting about them while watching the evening news. I call it living room racism.
Today, in full seriousness, my mother said "I believe muslims will take over the world".
Me and my brother basically mocked her about it to her face, but still.
I also know a lot of people who are actually look down on certain people based on certain criteria. They won't directly vocalize it but they will behave in such a way that they obviously dislike certain people more than others based on someone's cultural heritage.
For instance, I am well aware of my sister-in-law's dislike of South East Asians. Obviously, she won't be outwardly racist but how coldly she treats them compared to other acquaintances and strangers is obvious if you've been with her long enough.
For instance, I am well aware of my sister-in-law's dislike of South East Asians. Obviously, she won't be outwardly racist but how coldly she treats them compared to other acquaintances and strangers is obvious if you've been with her long enough.
I think there is quite a bit of casual racism in Australia because no one is called out in it. Minorities are not represented in government, a significant part of the media preys on peoples' fears and governments (on both sides of the aisle, but the Liberals take it further) have no problem with using dog whistles.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
With a lot of people, their racism is never the overt "master race" kind of racism, but rather a set of unspoken assumptions that all point to the notion that the group they themselves belong to are superior and good in all the ways that count. It's less hatred than it is an unexamined chauvinism matched with a great deal of conformity.
The second someone does anything that steps outside of the narrow cultural parameters they operate in, well, the barbs come out. For instance, when people from the leafy suburbs in Melbourne mock the Asian and Indian nouveau riche who've moved into the area for their ostentatious taste in homes. The thing they're not saying is that a fellow white Anglo-Australian business owner or professional would never have such awful taste.
I think for the majority of people who think asylum seekers should receive harsher treatment than they do already, I suspect that most of them aren't aware of what is actually happening. They simply don't care to know. They want the problem gone so they don't have to think about it. They probably think harsher treatment will discourage people from coming here, so they go for the most obvious solution to the problem. Trouble is that it isn't actually true.
Well, it is true, but the level of monstrousness required to actually achieve that is far beyond what a modern democracy will ever be prepared to accept.
The second someone does anything that steps outside of the narrow cultural parameters they operate in, well, the barbs come out. For instance, when people from the leafy suburbs in Melbourne mock the Asian and Indian nouveau riche who've moved into the area for their ostentatious taste in homes. The thing they're not saying is that a fellow white Anglo-Australian business owner or professional would never have such awful taste.
I think for the majority of people who think asylum seekers should receive harsher treatment than they do already, I suspect that most of them aren't aware of what is actually happening. They simply don't care to know. They want the problem gone so they don't have to think about it. They probably think harsher treatment will discourage people from coming here, so they go for the most obvious solution to the problem. Trouble is that it isn't actually true.
Well, it is true, but the level of monstrousness required to actually achieve that is far beyond what a modern democracy will ever be prepared to accept.
I don't want to make it sound like racism doesn't exist. I know it does. I was just trying to say that for one reason or another I've never experienced any first hand. I know people who have.
I don't want to whitewash the issue at all.
One thing that quite gets to me personally is the attitude I see in many people, from both sides of politics that basically goes along the lines of...
"I'm not racist, but aboriginals are different..."
I don't want to whitewash the issue at all.
One thing that quite gets to me personally is the attitude I see in many people, from both sides of politics that basically goes along the lines of...
"I'm not racist, but aboriginals are different..."
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