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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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Shaneus

Member
I had to do a bit of Googling on this Goebbels fellow, and found an interesting article. It mentions this:
This is where the Goebbels Factor comes into play. As Hitler’s Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany, Goebbels built his strategy on this dictum: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” He went onto say: “The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State (my bolding).”

Abbott, Jones, Hadley and their followers have used this strategy consistently and tellingly since the 2010 election, when Abbott believed he was robbed of his rightful place as Prime Minister of this nation.

Another of Goebbels’ dictums was: “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”. Again, Abbott has used that Goebbels strategy to great effect.
Article is from 2012. Sounds awfully familiar, huh? It almost sounds like he studied this fellow and is just doing a fantastic lifelong impersonation of him. Similarities are scary.
 

markot

Banned
Its concerning that the police use it so often. A study needs to be done. Is it effective? Are most of the requests justifiable? Would requiring warrants or court orders really hinder police?

It feels like its a crutch. And that the volume of requests is being provided as proof of its neccessity is kind of silly. It seems to suggest that its merely part of the procedure now that police use, that doesnt make it an important part, nor does it mean stricter safe guards would limit its effectiveness.
 

Dryk

Member
The weird thing about the constant push for more police powers is that a lot of the time terrorism happens due to poor communication within law enforcement. How many times around the world in the last 15 years have we heard the phrase "<terrorist> was known to law enforcement" in the wake of an attack. Having access to more data probably won't fix that.
"as a way of addressing youth unemployment."

In order to increase the number of jobs available to young people, we want to stop paying them. Brilliant idea.
That's always their goal though. It doesn't matter how good the conditions are or how much they're being paid, as long as they have jobs they have to shut up.
 

Omikron

Member
Funny. Had a discussion about minimum wage with a business owner. They wanted it lowered. I asked if they would then be able to employ more people. Silence. Basically.
 

Shaneus

Member
The weird thing about the constant push for more police powers is that a lot of the time terrorism happens due to poor communication within law enforcement. How many times around the world in the last 15 years have we heard the phrase "<terrorist> was known to law enforcement" in the wake of an attack. Having access to more data probably won't fix that.

That's always their goal though. It doesn't matter how good the conditions are or how much they're being paid, as long as they have jobs they have to shut up.
The other thing is, from that thing I pasted we already have most of this data stored by ISPs. How much has it helped? Next to fuck-all, especially with those who are known to police like that dick at the centre of the Lindt store tragedy.
 

Yagharek

Member
It won't stop anything in the future either. When the next tragedy strikes are they going to cavity search posties before and after their bike runs, or cull all potential carrier pigeons?

I just hope people stand up and scream WE FUCKING TOLD YOU SO when nothing works.
 

Shaneus

Member
It won't stop anything in the future either. When the next tragedy strikes are they going to cavity search posties before and after their bike runs, or cull all potential carrier pigeons?

I just hope people stand up and scream WE FUCKING TOLD YOU SO when nothing works.
Way ahead of you.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
"as a way of addressing youth unemployment."

In order to increase the number of jobs available to young people, we want to stop paying them. Brilliant idea.
Last night on 7:30 there was a debate between/joint interview with Kate Carnell and Jed Carney. Carney's solution to unemployment was to increase demand, growth and skills. Carnell's was to cut wages and penalties regulations because "businesses want to employ people". Also businesses can't afford to not extend trading hours because society demands it so strongly but also they can't afford to pay workers for working those hours because they don't earn enough during them.

The business sector is never going to acknowledge that they've won the war but that the redistribution from wages to profits has actually hurt growth.
 

Dryk

Member
Carnell's was to cut wages and penalties regulations because "businesses want to employ people".
That's the last thing business wants. Having employees is a means to and end, nothing more.

The business sector is never going to acknowledge that they've won the war but that the redistribution from wages to profits has actually hurt growth.
It turns out that people can't buy your goods if they have no disposable income. HOW ABOUT THAT SHIT.
 

Danoss

Member
"as a way of addressing youth unemployment."

In order to increase the number of jobs available to young people, we want to stop paying them. Brilliant idea.

That's how it reads to me.

There was the qualifier:

Ms Carnell said work for the dole placements would not replace existing paid staff...

Which appears to be undone a few paragraphs later with this:

She also said unfair dismissal laws needed to be modified to give employers greater flexibility to hire and fire.

"It needs to be easier for small to medium businesses to employ people but that means it needs to be easier for them to downsize as well," she said.

Fire some staff you currently pay and get their replacements for free. And then:

"The dilemma for small to medium businesses is that unfair dismissal laws make it really scary for them to take on new people. They are not willing to put on extra staff so those young people just aren't getting jobs or experience so fundamentally everyone is a loser."

They can test the waters with a free worker program, that'll fix the problem! They could take advantage of weakened unfair dismissal laws and hire them, but that means they'd have to pay them. No need to sacrifice profits when you can get new workers for free. Not like the competition will be fierce with they'll need to do the same thing to stay competitive.

It seems like her hearts in the right place when you read something like this:

"Even if it's just learning how to make a coffee or serving customers, that would make them more employable. We think that could be a real win for young people."

Until you realise her brain must've checked out years ago. Evidently, so had the one belonging to her employer.

Maths might not be my strong suit, but I think I can add a few things up here. Businesses are known for their ability to dodge taxes, but your average citizen isn't. Instead of getting tax-dodging businesses to pay employees where taxes are collected from their income, why don't we stop? The government could pay employees their barely-livable tax-exempt wage directly and tick them off the "unemployed" list, even though they're collecting payment because of their unemployment.

It's be unfair to solely benefit only small businesses with this scheme, so why not extend it to multinationals too? Tax revenue will be down because, even though unemployment will be way down, large numbers will be collecting the dole. Taxing the poor more won't work because that was Government money originally and would be much like dropping a pyramid scheme on its apex. Taxing businesses won't work, because they dodge it like it's their primary goal.

Any ideas? Sell assets? Probably sold them all. Privatise more services? Think that's just about done too. Uh... print more money?

Don't mind me amusing myself.
 

Fredescu

Member
Training people to serve coffee for free will mean other employers will want to pay them money to serve coffee because... magic.


Taxing the poor more won't work because that was Government money originally

That's about when you start hearing "mature debate about the GST" because you can tax everyone silly enough not to own a business to charge everything to an expense, including and especially welfare recipients.
 

r1chard

Member
It's paywalled, so here's the content:
BEING GOVERNED BY FOOLS IS NOT FUNNY
A bit like the old story of the frog that gets boiled alive because the temperature of the water in which it sits rises only gradually, we don't seem to quite be able to take in the growing realisation that we actually are being governed by idiots and fools, or that this actually has real-world consequences.
We finish the week with a Prime Minister who has lost his bundle and is making policy and political calls that go beyond reckless in an increasingly panicked and desperate attempt to save himself; a government that has not just utterly lost its way but its authority; and important policy debates left either as smouldering wrecks or unprosecuted.
At issue is not just whether Tony Abbott loses his leadership, or whether the budget bottom line deteriorates even further, but signs that our political system really is in deep trouble – not as a polemic point, but in a very real sense.
"Idiot" is the word that comes most often in Labor's focus groups when voters are asked about the Prime Minister. And lest you're thinking this is just what Labor would spin isn't it, we had a confirmation this week from focus group polling conducted for Fairfax by one of Australia's most respected focus group pollsters, Visibility's Tony Mitchelmore, with the small caveat being that these voters didn't describe Tony Abbott as an idiot but a fool.
inline graphic of deteriorating budget situation
Voters in Western Sydney – selected because they had switched their vote from Labor to Liberal at the 2011 NSW election – described the Prime Minister as "incompetent, an international embarrassment and a fool".
These perceptions are not just a problem for Tony Abbott and his future, but for the broader Coalition, given that the government's conduct in the last couple of weeks can only leave voters with the idea that the idiocy stretches well beyond the Prime Minister's office.
DEEP DEPRESSION
A deeply depressed Treasurer has had his fate tied irrevocably to his Prime Minister. The best the minister for education and training has been able to do, is make himself a figure of ironic hilarity as "the fixer" of higher education as he has presided over a complete policy debacle in the Senate, which has sent the debate about both university funding and structural form back to Year Zero.
It's not just that voters don't like Tony Abbott any more, or are angry about broken promises, they see the government as incapable of doing its job competently.
This is a particularly devastating assessment for a conservative government. The phrase the Coalition used before the last election was that voters needed to put "the adults back in charge".
Yet the Liberal Party of Tony Abbott is not a natural party of government. In fact we no longer know what it is.
The process of formulating the 2015 budget is in disarray with central planks of the 2014 budget abandoned and the government making haphazard decisions to spend money on the run.
It is over a month since The Australian Financial Review reported that the government had ­abandoned the search for big May budget savings, would not meet its ­forecast 2018 return to surplus and was privately acknowledging collapsing revenue meant it was highly unlikely to offer tax cuts at the next ­federal ­election.
This raised barely a murmur at the time, trapped as we were in the drama of leadership manoeuvrings.
PROMISE OF 'DULL' BUDGET
But it has only got worse since, with the Prime Minister now promising a "dull" budget and expressing contentment with forecasts of a net debt equivalent to 60 per cent of the economy and no surplus for 40 years. Whatever happened to the budget emergency?
Surveying the disaster of the higher education reforms, some in the government argued this week that, despite the setbacks, it had made considerable headway in improving the budget bottom line.
Well actually no it hasn't. The accompanying table shows the evolving shape of the budget since the release of the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Outlook, prepared by the secretaries of the departments of Treasury and Finance, in 2013, and every updated estimate of the bottom line since then.
The bottom line for the current budget year has deteriorated from a forecast deficit of just $24 billion to a deficit of $40.4 billion.
While there were no figures available in PEFO for 2017-18, the deterioration in the bottom line over four years from PEFO to the last mid-year review of the budget was at least $75 billion.
Even if you start the comparisons at the 2013 mid-year review of the budget (which the government said drew a line under Labor's policies but also loaded the budget with decisions like the one to give almost $9 billion to the Reserve Bank), the direction of the bottom line is into the red, and the combined deterioration over four years is about $30 billion.
Yes, some of this can be attributed to revenue writedowns (reflecting slumping commodity prices and a weaker economy). But the deterioration in the budget bottom line is even greater.
BUDGET NEWS NOT GOOD
We know there is a further deterioration in revenue coming in the looming budget. And of course, none of these figures include the humiliating backdowns and defeats on the Medicare copayment and higher education which amount to more than $8 billion over four years.
Much of the budget debate has been about what happens beyond the next four years. And these numbers are even less pretty.
What about Labor and the crossbenches, you ask. They too have some culpability.
But the government's utter failure to prosecute either the policy arguments or political strategies to get voters to countenance its signature policies, is a responsibility that rests squarely with the government of the day.
Under siege, Tony Abbott has retreated further and further into attempts to hold onto a very hard right base. Doing so, he has left the centre ground completely vacant for Labor – and for Malcolm Turnbull – to redefine a new constituency.
There is an immense opportunity for the Opposition, yet angst about how best to proceed. The collapse of the government's raison d'etre requires a response which is more than just the release of individual policies. It opens the ground for an entirely new policy platform. The best launchpoints for this are the Opposition Leader's speech in reply to the budget and the ALP Conference in June.
Yet they are an agonisingly long way away in such dramatic times.
No wonder Labor MPs would nervously ask this week if the government was really considering an early double dissolution election.
Such an option would appear utter madness to most observers. The only rational explanation for why the PM has been raising it is as a way of trying to restore some discipline to his ranks. Unfortunately, many of them now share the view of voters about their leader.
Laura Tingle is the political editor for the Australian Financial Review.
 

Fredescu

Member
It's paywalled, so here's the content:

Looks like this one is outside the paywall.

And it kind of makes a point that I've been thinking about a bit. The Libs cling firmly to the hard right, not allowing any party to spring up over that side to gain any traction. This has been the case at least since Howard's response to One Nation. Labor as we know, kinda waft around the center, allowing parties like the Greens to hang around and get their 10%. This in turn allows headlines like this:

foley.jpg

I kind of wonder if the Libs fear headlines like that from their own side so much that they alienate the center, such as they have clearly been doing recently. The sudden turn arounds in QLD and Federally show that the voters weren't expecting the extreme right policies that they ended up with,
 

legend166

Member
I've noticed the headline writer at smh.com.au is becoming worse and worse. I can't tell if this one is actually serious or is just a Buzzfeed parody. Since it's their main story this morning, I'm thinking it's meant to be serious:


Tony Abbott's $3 billion deal that the US hates
 

Fredescu

Member
Whats wrong with it? Direct mention of Abbott? I'm not saying it's a great headline, but it seems to accurately reflect the content.
 

Fredescu

Member
To me it reads like the title of a shitty Clickbait article from Buzzfeed.

I don't see it, but fair enough. It does appear to be a 3 billion dollar deal, and the US does appear to hate it. Calling it "Tony Abbott's" deal is probably a bit much, but I wouldn't be singling it out as an example of bad headlines. Headlines have always been pretty sensational before Buzzfeed.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Koala summit? What a loony! Only loonies are concerned bout the environment and animals! Koalas aren't a virtually extinct indicator of systemic environmental collapse you loony, I saw one in the zoo! Look at this loony in a koala suit, what a loony!
 

Fredescu

Member
Koala summit? What a loony! Only loonies are concerned bout the environment and animals! Koalas aren't a virtually extinct indicator of systemic environmental collapse you loony, I saw one in the zoo! Look at this loony in a koala suit, what a loony!

The Greens are loony because this one time I saw a hippy do something really weird.
 

markot

Banned
I really dont get why conservatives hate wind farms so much >_<

Like... is it cause its free energy?

(I know its not 'free' but the wind is)
 

Fredescu

Member
I really dont get why conservatives hate wind farms so much >_<

Like... is it cause its free energy?

Because it's a solution to a problem that suggests a need to change the way Things Have "Always" Been Done, and if there's one things that conservatives love is the way Things Have Always Been Done. First we get windfarms, next minute all those desires I repressed as a child are suddenly socially acceptable and I'm filled with sadness and rage.
 
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