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[Elaugaufein]

Pretty standard Coalition budget so far. Though they are wearing that Small / Medium Business cape pretty hard (while redefining Small Business to turn over of up to $10 million / year).

Ahh there we go reduced corporate tax rate for everyone over the next 10 years.

$80 000 -> $87 000 shift, lots of (mis)use of the word of "average" (while specifically stating it only effects 500 000 which must take interesting mental discipline)

Lots of Revenue & Integrity measures.

Ooh. Actually going to try and do something about Multidimensional Tax Avoidance apparently. Funding for a Task Force to deal with this. And new measures. Diverted Profit Tax (of 40%). Better protection for Whisteblowers (on Tax*).

That covers about half the Revenue & Integrity measure money they need so far, so expect welfare payments to cop it later tonight.

Going to do something about Super. Transfer balance cap of 1.6 M (for tax free on going to retirement). Reducing cap on Super to earnings of 250 000 , 25 000 / year transfer, and 500 000 life time cap. Low Income Super Tax Offset for those on <37000 , that allows those under 37 000 to effectively pay their income rate on their super. . Can roll over caps too (so you don't miss out from taking breaks from work). Gotta say this is all good so far on this (probably not far enough but better than I expected).

Cigarette Tax hike.

Please please like our Submarines and (ridiculous) US Planes. (Adelaide and Perth , please vote for us!)

Some sensible stuff on doing crowdfunding for small businesses.

Cyber security (SAFETY AND NATIONAL SECURITY).

Infrastructure Budget (this is the same as last year so far just not all on roads). Oooh rail from Brisbane to Melbourne. I can't say I disapprove. I've wanted that for a looong time.

Prepare Trial and Hire

Get young people into work.

1 April 2017

Pre-employment skill training (5 months of registering with Job Active).

Internship Program (120 000 places) 4-12 weeks , 15-25 hours / week , $200 / week on top of basic support rate , business gets
$1000 upfront. (This seems like the usual sad arse end run around the minimum age that's standard for work for the dole but even more clearly
on the private sector benefit).

Stage 3 -> Wage Subsidy for businesses that employ young people.


More Hospital Funding (probably just a restoration of some of the previous cuts contingenet on reforms).

State Eductation (again restoring funding contingent on reforms)

Federal Budget as Household Budget Metaphor. Tighten belts etc etc.

*Which is a start.

 

[Candescence]

Yeah, this isn't gonna excite anyone. If anything, the corporate tax cuts and only a quarter of the population getting an income tax cut are gonna annoy quite a few voters despite the 'wait' for the former. It's a lot of catching up to Labor and desperately trying to come off as fair and 'innovative'.

Edit: The Guardian caught a pun in Morrison's speech aimed at the opposition - "when governments make promises with money that&#8217;s not there, they either end up being let down or left with the bill." Bill, geddit?

 

[bobnowhere]

A couple of pretty pathetic political attacks, no one cares about your invented ciggy tax blackhole Scott.

Don't scare the horses, back small business holders, make them think they will be multi-millionaires if they just work hard. Ignore the fact that most small business owners are pretty incompetent and out of their depth. The constant recycling of their built up debts powers the banking market I suppose.

 

[Elaugaufein]

A very defensive and low profile pre-election budget. Nothing super unexpected.

Some good things regarding Super and Multi-National Tax.

All in all, I don't see this having much effect on the polls unless there's something hideous hidden in the details. It won't cause any further vote bleeding but its unlikely to do much the other way either since its so unambitious.

 

[Candescence]

Unfortunately for them all the good stuff is gonna either be matched or outdone by Labor, and Labor still has other good stuff that the Coalition won't touch with a ten-foot-pole (ETS, negative gearing windback, etc).

And the budget itself won't cause the polls to bleed any faster, but it won't stem the bleeding period. All Labor needs to do is look exciting by comparison with Shorten's response speech, and to be fair, he's pretty damn good with those, as he demonstrated back in 2014.

 

[Quasar]

A very defensive and low profile pre-election budget. Nothing super unexpected.

Some good things regarding Super and Multi-National Tax.

I still wonder how any multinational efforts can do anything without the oecd as a whole doing it together.

And of course the 30% of large companies paying no effective tax will continue on. Of course thats not a surprise.

 

[Candescence]

So apparently Leigh Sales is absolutely wrecking Morrison like Hockey before him, effortlessly tying him to Abbot&Hockey's two wasted years. Not surprising.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So apparently Leigh Sales is absolutely wrecking Morrison like Hockey before him, effortlessly tying him to Abbot&Hockey's two wasted years. Not surprising.

Seemed pretty civil to me honestly. Didn't let him evade but let him finish his bits. Any "wrecking" was pretty much by virtue of the Turnbull government being an extension of the Abbott government in electoral reality.


ETA

Di Natale going in hard as only someone who doesn't have to worry about actually forming government can.

 

[bobnowhere]

So apparently Leigh Sales is absolutely wrecking Morrison like Hockey before him, effortlessly tying him to Abbot&Hockey's two wasted years. Not surprising.

It wasn't quite as brutal as that but Morrison started quibbling when she mentioned the deficit and the Abbott/Turnbull record.

 

[mjontrix]

Very defensive. A budget to prevent any drops in the polls more than likely.

 

[Arksy]

What does defensive mean? As in not pissing people off? A democratically elected government doing what people want? Shock horror!!

xD

 

[munchie64]

Budget sounds ok for what it is, but I've honestly not been able to pay much attention to it.

People are killing themselves specifically because of of the way our country is treating them, and there's almost nothing I can do about it.

 

[Jintor]

That internship thing sounds like concentrated fecal matter.

25 hours per week for $100 with no guarantee of a job.

I guess it's better than unpaid, but yeah.

 

[bobnowhere]

Apparently there is 1.6 billion in unannounced election bribes in the budget along with 2 billion in cuts that don't have to come out for another 3 weeks when the final election budget statement is made.

 

[Jintor]

I mean

A) please spend the time you would be looking for jobs doing these other jobs for below minimum wage

B) always a steady churn of unemployed people to "intern" for your no skill jobs

C) not gonna pay anyone an actual wage to do the work

Cool, great idea

 

[Elaugaufein]

What does defensive mean? As in not pissing people off? A democratically elected government doing what people want? Shock horror!!

xD

No, more as in low profile. It's not a typical pre-election budget where in there are buckets of gold and rainbows , nor is it a knifey budget, nor does it have anything controversial in it.

 

[DaMan121]

I hope everyone takes up smoking. We need to do our part for the nation!

 

[Aarglefarg]

I mean

A) please spend the time you would be looking for jobs doing these other jobs for below minimum wage

B) always a steady churn of unemployed people to "intern" for your no skill jobs

C) not gonna pay anyone an actual wage to do the work

Cool, great idea

I hope it doesn't mean anything but the talk of them being 'real jobs' sounds to me like it's changing to be at for-profit places.

 

[Quasar]

I hope it doesn't mean anything but the talk of them being 'real jobs' sounds to me like it's changing to be at for-profit places.

So McDonalds/KFC interns.

 

[Shaneus]

So McDonalds/KFC interns.

From what I can gather, it's literally work experience. But I'm pretty sure when I did it, I got paid more.

 

[Elaugaufein]

From what I can gather, it's literally work experience. But I'm pretty sure when I did it, I got paid more.

Examples given are Newsagent, Supermarket and Coffee Shop. So yeah, for profit is definitely go.

The amount (200 / wk) is in addition to whatever benefit they are claiming while unemployed. But chances are excellent that still works out well below minimum wage and thus created perverse incentives (especially for the business).

Its minimum 25 hours / week.

 

[Shaneus]

Examples given are Newsagent, Supermarket and Coffee Shop. So yeah, for profit is definitely go.

The amount (200 / wk) is in addition to whatever benefit they are claiming while unemployed. But chances are excellent that still works out well below minimum wage and thus created perverse incentives (especially for the business).

Its minimum 25 hours / week.

It's not 200 a week. It's 200 a *fortnight*. So yeah, literally getting paid $4 an hour.

 

[Arksy]

So the big crisis of the young being shut oit of society continues

 

[r1chard]

So the big crisis of the young being shut oit of society continues

 

[Fredescu]

That is so exactly "let them eat cake". "If you want equality, just buy your kids some property."

Also, thread title.

 

[Arksy]

That's a pretty dumb answer.

Edit: In reality, that's what a lot of parents are doing...but the point is that people want to earn it for themselves, and I feel as though it's completely unfair on people who didn't buy 5-10 properties in the 90s while they were cheap. This is basically refeudalisation.

 

[bomma_man]

That's a pretty dumb answer.

Edit: In reality, that's what a lot of parents are doing...but the point is that people want to earn it for themselves, and I feel as though it's completely unfair on people who didn't buy 5-10 properties in the 90s while they were cheap. This is basically refeudalisation.

The point is that not all parents are rich enough to afford their own homes, let alone for their children.

 

[Arksy]

The point is that not all parents are rich enough to afford their own homes, let alone for their children.

I would have thought that most of the parents who have children who are looking for their own home would own the house they live in. Most children looking to buy are these days probably over 25 which would make the parents 45-60 and would have paid off their mortgage. Remember after the war the government subsidised a lot of housing for young married couples. Doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong though.

 

[bobnowhere]

Lol, nice job Lord Wentworth.

So wages are stagnant (no brackets creeping!), inflation is deflating and housing prices keep rising. Love to see their plan for housing, hint, they don't have one.

 

[Yagharek]

I would have thought that most of the parents who have children who are looking for their own home would own the house they live in. Most children looking to buy are these days probably over 25 which would make the parents 45-60 and would have paid off their mortgage. Remember after the war the government subsidised a lot of housing for young married couples. Doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong though.

Might be a safe assumption if you live in a bubble I guess

 

[Tommy DJ]

Useless anecdote but as a non-white Australian, my parents only recently got a mortgage (dad was born in 1954 as a reference) to buy their own house because they could never really afford it until I got a well paying job to support them in case shit hit the fan for them.

My co-worker from the Philippines is around 50 and looking to buy his first house. I really doubt he's going to be able to help his two kids with purchasing their first house in any real meaningful way.

 

[Arksy]

Might be a safe assumption if you live in a bubble I guess

True, this is a picture of the house that my parents bought me.

 

[bomma_man]

I would have thought that most of the parents who have children who are looking for their own home would own the house they live in. Most children looking to buy are these days probably over 25 which would make the parents 45-60 and would have paid off their mortgage. Remember after the war the government subsidised a lot of housing for young married couples. Doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong though.

As someone that practises at the Tenants's Union and has a partner that works in low socioeconomic areas, you're living on another planet.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Housing in Australia is whack.

An individual in the top 2% of income earners is looking at 2-3 years of savings to buy a crappy apartment in a capital city.

You need as a household to bring in significantly over 400 k a year for a fancy beachfront house (6M doubled to 12M by interest paid back over 30 years is 400k/year).

If you're on a far more normal household income of ~90k , you're looking at houses around 700 k , which may get you a townhouse in a capital city if you're super lucky and in the burbs).

 

[Yagharek]

As someone that practises at the Tenants's Union and has a partner that works in low socioeconomic areas, you're living on another planet.

Without being too snarky that would be a reasonable correlation against young liberal membership would it not?

 

[Arksy]

As someone that practises at the Tenants's Union and has a partner that works in low socioeconomic areas, you're living on another planet.

You've never thought that you may have a warped view of things if you only ever deal with a certain demographic? There's no point in me actually arguing anything if we're just engage in baseless accusations.


How about we actually get some data so we can stop slinging ad hominem garbage at each other. I'm on mobile but a quick google put home ownership rates at 70% but I don't know what their criteria was for ownership.

 

[Yagharek]

Start making founded claims by all means.

 

[Arksy]

Start making founded claims by all means.

Sorry? What was that? I'm getting severe packet loss from my connection on Europa. I guess I really needed the NBN.

 

[Shaneus]

My parents own their own house and are both retired. They've been very hesitant to use their house as collateral towards my fiancee and I getting a house because the job market is just that unstable right now. If any parents have money to give their kids so they can buy a house, I can assure anyone they're far from the average family.

 

[Yagharek]

Sorry? What was that? I'm getting severe packet loss from my connection on Europa. I guess I really needed the NBN.

My mistake. Here I was thinking you said the majority of home owners can afford two houses.

 

[Arksy]

My parents own their own house and are both retired. They've been very hesitant to use their house as collateral towards my fiancee and I getting a house because the job market is just that unstable right now. If any parents have money to give their kids so they can buy a house, I can assure anyone they're far from the average family.

I know a few families mostly from the Chinese community who have contributed by various amounts to their children's first home. I've seen the same thing within the greater Greek community. I can't say with any real certainty that they're obscenely rich or well off but I don't know the state of their personal finances.

My initial comment, if I could have my time again would have been; sure it might be happening but it is bad. Whatever. It probably would've descended into farce either way.

My mistake. Here I was thinking you said the majority of home owners can afford two houses.

Indeed. I never said anything of the sort. In fact I said that if it was happening it's bad. Key word, refeudalisation. Where a lot of property goes to a few which is then passed down through the ages. C'est tres mal.

 

[Yagharek]

Some questions.

If you're in your 60s buying a second house for the kids (all 2.2 of them) are you going to realistically want to take out potentially several hundred thousand dollars in loans with maybe ten years of working income left?

And are your now working children in stable enough employment in this neocon utopia where casualised work is the increasing norm? Where wage growth is stagnant relative to housing prices in major cities? And you want to add more buyers into that market?

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Arksy]

Some questions.

If you're in your 60s buying a second house for the kids (all 2.2 of them) are you going to realistically want to take out potentially several hundred thousand dollars in loans with maybe ten years of working income left?

And are your now working children in stable enough employment in this neocon utopia where casualised work is the increasing norm? Where wage growth is stagnant relative to housing prices in major cities? And you want to add more buyers into that market?

Sounds reasonable.

Absolutely. Young people are fucked either way. Hence my initial comment that young people will continue to get shut out.

 

[bomma_man]

Well if 70% own that's 30% that don't, then you add on however many people own a house but can't afford to lend their children money. So we're looking at a decent chunk of the population. You're looking at ever person living in community housing or public housing. Ultimately it doesn't matter the exact figure, it just shows that he's out of touch with - or doesn't care about - the people that are really struggling.

 

[Dryk]

My most recent ex's parents straight up bought her a house. But they owned three houses and her dad was an attorney so...

 

[bomma_man]

Btw just made my first appearance in the Supreme Court, in front of the Chief Justice. Got what I wanted too. &#128526;&#128526;&#128526;

 

[danm999]

Channeling Hockey there.

 

[Candescence]

I'm honestly convinced at this point that Turnbull is just saying things to appease the right-wing and has absolutely no leverage to move any further towards the centre, because we know he doesn't believe in what he's saying on negative gearing, as Four Corners pointed out.

If the polling situation continues to slowly deteriorate for him, I honestly wonder what Turnbull will do, because the strategy he's employing isn't working and that's not gonna change. I wonder if he's disillusioned with the party he's in, being forced to back polices he doesn't believe in and might even think aren't electorally viable while Labor is actually gaining ground with policies that were previously considered electoral poison.

It would be extremely entertaining if the polling situation got desperate enough for Turnbull to snap and just abandon the government altogether to form his own centrist party and take his supporters with him. It would also destroy the Coalition as a viable force federally. Granted, it would be an extremely ballsy and unprecedented move, but continuing with a sinking ship would just end with Turnbull's career on a sour note, whereas doing something like this would immortalize him in Australian political history, and that's assuming the Coalition breaks down further with Barnaby making good on his idea of starting a 'proper conservative' party.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Groups that are explicitly Proper X Party have historically done awfully in Australia , with the DLP probably causing Labor to lose several elections without winning themselves probably the most successful.

So I can't see it happening.

The "Proper X" groups that do the best are the ones that simply embrace whatever values they believe the group holds and run on that (like One Nations being proper Nationals).

Not to mention there's not way in hell that Turnbull could hold his Blue Ribbon seat in such a case.

Barnaby isn't going to so much either considering hes the Nationals leader.

Now Bernadi starting a conservative party and taking some Liberals (and a couple of Nationals) with him ? That I could see.

 

[Candescence]

I think I may have gotten Bernadi and Barnaby confused. Oh well, they're both vile scumbags, so it's not like there's much difference.

Really, though, even if Turnbull wins this election, I can't see him winning the next. His government will be effectively paralysed by trying to both appease the right-wing and avoid veering further towards them while the senate will probably still be as 'rabid' as ever (if not moreso due to Coalition electoral losses, two known headaches likely retaining their seats and two usual senate allies probably losing their seats as well, not to mention the no-nonsense Xenophon having more power than ever) and unlikely to give two shits about any 'mandate'. It'll be a death by a thousand cuts, and if the party doesn't self-destruct in a mirror of the Rudd/Gillard days, the electorate will remove them at the second election. Christ, at least while Gillard had a hung parliament she actually got things done with reasonable policies, neither Abbot nor Turnbull have really been able to get anything done period.