I'm not denying that the RCF doesn't have other issues that keep it from being the first choice in the sport luxury sedan segment but I also think it deserves props for doing certain things well. If I was in the market for a car in that segment I would absolutely give it a serious look, especially if reliability and luxury were bigger requirements than outright performance.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
I'm not denying that the RCF doesn't have other issues that keep it from being the first choice in the sport luxury sedan segment but I also think it deserves props for doing certain things well. If I was in the market for a car in that segment I would absolutely give it a serious look, especially if reliability and luxury were bigger requirements than outright performance.
I drove a 2010 Fusion to work today. Man, what a difference versus the 128 that I normally drive.
It's time for an oil change and a few other odds and ends on my 128 so my father in law (who is retired) is taking my car in to have the service work done and I am borrowing his to go back and forth to work.
The Fusion is not a bad car. Not at all. I actually think it exhibits less body roll in a corner than my 128 (which has the stock suspension, not the sport). Other than that I would say that the biggest difference is in the feedback and sensation that the car offers you, the driver.
In almost any gear at almost any RPM, when I put my foot on the gas in my BMW, even if it's just a little bit of throttle, I can feel forward acceleration. There's a sensation of moving forward and gaining momentum and it's a good, fun feeling. That feeling is completely absent in the Fusion.
In the Fusion I can tell I am going faster because my eyes are seeing things approach quicker and the speedometer is moving upward but there's no bodily sensation to go along with it. It's a weirdly detached driving experience that is competent but would never in my book be called fun or interesting.
Other than that there's just a whole different design aesthetic going on between the two cars. The 128 has a driver focused interior (some might call it plain, or spartan) while the Fusion has more buttons beneath it's radio than the 128 has in its entire interior. I also missed my meaty, smaller diameter steering wheel which feels just "right". The Fusion's wheel is larger and thinner and feels a little numb on center (but does load up nicely when cornering).
What struck me most about the two interiors is the fact that the two cars are only separated by one model year. My 128 is a 2009 and the Fusion is a 2010. They feel like they are from two different eras, really, and while I vastly prefer the 128 I can see why Mr and Ms Consumer would be attracted to the bells and whistles of the Fusion and not care a whit about a car that is mostly about rewarding the driver with a good, fun ride.
Anyway, this is not meant as a dig against the Fusion or against "modern" cars in any way. The Fusion is obviously a competent, decent looking car and Ford has sold a bunch of them so they are doing something right with it. This is more about what I prefer and how my tastes have diverged from most of the car buying public (and I suspect that goes for most of you reading this forum as well).
It's time for an oil change and a few other odds and ends on my 128 so my father in law (who is retired) is taking my car in to have the service work done and I am borrowing his to go back and forth to work.
The Fusion is not a bad car. Not at all. I actually think it exhibits less body roll in a corner than my 128 (which has the stock suspension, not the sport). Other than that I would say that the biggest difference is in the feedback and sensation that the car offers you, the driver.
In almost any gear at almost any RPM, when I put my foot on the gas in my BMW, even if it's just a little bit of throttle, I can feel forward acceleration. There's a sensation of moving forward and gaining momentum and it's a good, fun feeling. That feeling is completely absent in the Fusion.
In the Fusion I can tell I am going faster because my eyes are seeing things approach quicker and the speedometer is moving upward but there's no bodily sensation to go along with it. It's a weirdly detached driving experience that is competent but would never in my book be called fun or interesting.
Other than that there's just a whole different design aesthetic going on between the two cars. The 128 has a driver focused interior (some might call it plain, or spartan) while the Fusion has more buttons beneath it's radio than the 128 has in its entire interior. I also missed my meaty, smaller diameter steering wheel which feels just "right". The Fusion's wheel is larger and thinner and feels a little numb on center (but does load up nicely when cornering).
What struck me most about the two interiors is the fact that the two cars are only separated by one model year. My 128 is a 2009 and the Fusion is a 2010. They feel like they are from two different eras, really, and while I vastly prefer the 128 I can see why Mr and Ms Consumer would be attracted to the bells and whistles of the Fusion and not care a whit about a car that is mostly about rewarding the driver with a good, fun ride.
Anyway, this is not meant as a dig against the Fusion or against "modern" cars in any way. The Fusion is obviously a competent, decent looking car and Ford has sold a bunch of them so they are doing something right with it. This is more about what I prefer and how my tastes have diverged from most of the car buying public (and I suspect that goes for most of you reading this forum as well).
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yep, most mid-size sedans are designed to be as uninvolved and relaxed as possible. They're appliances, not driving machines, and that's because most people do not give one shit about their car.
Recently rented the Focus for one day, I think it was an Ecoboost model...it was actually pretty fun believe it or not. Definitely perky and agile and went where you wanted it to go, didn't have that thrilling feel of a BMW (at least the last gen 3 series, I dont have expereince with the new ones) but I was pleasantly surprised.
LucidMomentum
Member
Almost every rental I have for work is like that.
Basically a chair that transports you from A to B. I can't tell the difference between 40 and 60 other than what the speedometer tells me.
LucidMomentum
Member
All the reviews I've seen have said it's an excellent hot hatch. If it's in your price and performance / size range, go for it.
Hot hatches are the business.
The only thing is that everywhere I've looked (for a friend) they're getting marked up 5k+ because they're so highly sought after. Some are nearing S3 territory, which is the same car but in sedan form.
I find $40k a bit too much to spend on souped up economy hatch, personally. There's too many amazing low mileage CPO cars that one could afford in the same price range.
Sure, new MSRP is good "value" compared to luxury MSRPs. But fuck that noise. Just get a nicer car with 8-15k miles on it.
*edit*
This is what I'm talking about.
I live in Canada and a fully equipped Golf R is easily 10-15K cheaper than a well-optioned S3. The Rs are also sold at or slightly below MSRP here. Will test drive a GTI tomorrow for the first time and decide if I want a VW as my next ride.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Have backseats in the modern muscle car gotten even worse than I remember?
My dad bought a brand new Camaro Z28 in '95, and my sister and I could sit in the back seat just fine when we were ages 6-11/12.
I just messed around with the new Camaro, and even with the seat NOT as far back as it'll go, it's back is rubbing the knee bend of the rear seat. I mean, it's not usable for anybody.
Don't get me wrong, I don't actually expect to regularly fit a family of four in one; but in a pinch, I figured a buddy could squeeze uncomfortably in the back for a short 20 minute drive to lunch or the theater or something.
Also, at 6'2,", even on it's lowest setting, I could feel my hair scrape against the roof of the car.
I really like the new Camaro, but with that said, after messing with it a bit, it just confirmed I much more enjoy the size of the Challenger. I know everyone thinks it's a boat and it needs to slim down; but I love how much room it has. I'm comfortable in the driving seat, the rear space is usable in a pinch, it has a worthwhile trunk, and visibility isn't absolute dog shit.
My dad bought a brand new Camaro Z28 in '95, and my sister and I could sit in the back seat just fine when we were ages 6-11/12.
I just messed around with the new Camaro, and even with the seat NOT as far back as it'll go, it's back is rubbing the knee bend of the rear seat. I mean, it's not usable for anybody.
Don't get me wrong, I don't actually expect to regularly fit a family of four in one; but in a pinch, I figured a buddy could squeeze uncomfortably in the back for a short 20 minute drive to lunch or the theater or something.
Also, at 6'2,", even on it's lowest setting, I could feel my hair scrape against the roof of the car.
I really like the new Camaro, but with that said, after messing with it a bit, it just confirmed I much more enjoy the size of the Challenger. I know everyone thinks it's a boat and it needs to slim down; but I love how much room it has. I'm comfortable in the driving seat, the rear space is usable in a pinch, it has a worthwhile trunk, and visibility isn't absolute dog shit.
And given the poor value of our dollar, and until VW Canada readjusts the price for the 2017 R, a fully loaded DSG R here costs about 36 K USD OTD, including taxes, PDI, everything. A steal...
Well you probably weren't six foot two then, those seats have always been small they're alright for kids and shorter adults but with a taller driver it will be a bit of a squeeze.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
No, I get that. But what I'm saying is that, even with the driver seat not all the way back, but maybe 80% back, it touches the rear seat. Meaning there is literally no room for legs, at all.
My dad was just an inch shorter than me, and probably had the seat in about that spot at 6'1", and I vividly recall having a solid 2-3 inches to squeeze my legs in.
Maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Might examine my friend's '02 SS when I see him next.
Probably would have to compare the sum of front legroom and rear legroom for each car.
Sometimes it will start, and die after a second or two. Giving it gas doesn't make any difference, it will still cut out and die.
If it starts good and I take it out for a spin, when I get back I'll turn it off and afterwards it won't start again for 10 or 15 minutes until, I presume, it's cooled a little. Reading online has lead me to believe it either the camshaft PS, crankshaft PS, or coil packs. All of which I've changed.
Luckily it's only my second car so I don't have to depend on it, but it is making me go crazy. Fantastic little car to drive though, it took it out today.
I think I've found my summer wheels:
OZ Leggera HLT in black, on same color car in that pic, Lapiz Blue Golf R. I'm going with 18s though, pictured are 19"s. It's either these or Neuspeed RSE10s, shown below. What say you auto-gaf? The OZ is gloss black matching the mirror caps, diffuser, various other exterior bits. The Neuspeed is semi-gloss "satin" black.
Bonus: The RSE10 in satin midnight blue is still a contender despite friends trying to talk me out of it. This could be a horrific disaster of a combo with Lapiz Blue, or could look pretty unique in a good way.
OZ Leggera HLT in black, on same color car in that pic, Lapiz Blue Golf R. I'm going with 18s though, pictured are 19"s. It's either these or Neuspeed RSE10s, shown below. What say you auto-gaf? The OZ is gloss black matching the mirror caps, diffuser, various other exterior bits. The Neuspeed is semi-gloss "satin" black.
Bonus: The RSE10 in satin midnight blue is still a contender despite friends trying to talk me out of it. This could be a horrific disaster of a combo with Lapiz Blue, or could look pretty unique in a good way.
Amazing, amazing, amazing. Auto-Gaf, do yourself a favor and go and read this thread. It took me yesterday afternoon and part of this morning to catch up on it but believe me when I say it is worth the time and effort. Especially if you like early 911's and 912's!
While this makes me sad in a way it also reaffirms that I made the right decision when I bought my 128. Even with the expensive first year that I am going to have with catching up on certain maintenance items it's worth it to me because I enjoy driving it on a daily basis. It's not the best sports car that I've ever owned (that would be the Boxster) but it is most certainly the best daily driver.
I think I've found my summer wheels:
OZ Leggera HLT in black, on same color car in that pic, Lapiz Blue Golf R. I'm going with 18s though, pictured are 19"s. It's either these or Neuspeed RSE10s, shown below. What say you auto-gaf? The OZ is gloss black matching the mirror caps, diffuser, various other exterior bits. The Neuspeed is semi-gloss "satin" black.
Bonus: The RSE10 in satin midnight blue is still a contender despite friends trying to talk me out of it. This could be a horrific disaster of a combo with Lapiz Blue, or could look pretty unique in a good way.
I like the black. That's a good look. The blue might be a little funky, at least in my opinion.
You might even get a better deal from VW right now since their sales have been affected after report last month, so they might really willing. I know I talked for a GTI and they were giving me 2.5k off wth 0 percent with very little bargaining. I was literally surprised. I didn't get the car, but that was a good deal with just a talk with the manager
RapidCancel
Member
Don't worry, you'll feel good about yourself once my rx7 starts having problems.
Just caught up on reading this, too and it was an amazing read. Can't wait to see him finish the story.
As much as I like the Ozs, upon further research: they're quite a bit more expensive, they're et48 offset compared to preferred et45 of the neuspeeds, I would have to run hubcentric rings, have a whole nother set of bolts and locks and they're 8" width only and I'd prefer the 8.5" width of the neuspeeds.
And because I cant get gloss black on neuspeeds, that's another reason I want the blue over the satin black. Think I'll pull the trigger on the blue. If I absolutely hate them, I can get them repainted to gloss black next winter.
Right on. Definitely provide some pics when you get them.
Haha, yep. That's what the broken down rx8 in my parking lot reminds me. Not a fan of rotary engines.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
C&D basically hate their long term M3 Sedan:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-bmw-m3-manual-long-term-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-bmw-m3-manual-long-term-test-review
Carbon brakes on street cars are duuuuuuumb. So dumb.
Near complete fade has been an issue with them ever since the gen 1 Porsche CCBs and has never quite been eliminated. Puddles, rain, even going through a car wash can cause some scary moments where it feels like the brakes are totally gone.
And all the track rats I know of who have PCCBs end up replacing them with steel rotors because it saves them a lot of money and the difference is nominal.
Their M3 sounds like a real piece of shit.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
Chris Harris likes it so much that he just bought one:
https://www.instagram.com/p/_UYl7ZEcI7/?taken-by=harrismonkey
https://www.instagram.com/p/_UYl7ZEcI7/?taken-by=harrismonkey
RapidCancel
Member
Not a lot of people are, but there's plenty of running rotaries around without any issues.
My cousin just picked one up, but I've yet to taken a look at it. I wonder how it'll compare to c&d.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Chris Harris to co-host new Top Gear! Holy shit.
And Sabine!
What the what!?!
It may not suck!
And Sabine!
What the what!?!
It may not suck!
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Chris Harris joins Top Gear?
http://jalopnik.com/chris-harris-and-sabine-schmitz-chosen-as-new-top-gear-1749423599
http://jalopnik.com/chris-harris-and-sabine-schmitz-chosen-as-new-top-gear-1749423599
Sort of funny because of the number of people that were talking about this way back when Clarkson first got fired. At that point it was just sort of a fanboy wish but it looks like they may have given Harris an offer too good to pass up.
Definitely a good thing for Top Gear though, Chris Harris being part of the cast pretty much guarantees that it will bring back some of the petrol heads who may have written the show off once the original group left.
If that happens theres no way I will be skipping Top Gear. The previous guy they announced I couldn't care less but I love me some Harris
$81k is a big, big number for an M3. It's almost base 911 Carrera range, even. And that's not the only problem. BMW seems to be taking the "M" series car further and further away from being completely driver oriented to being a complete fire breathing monster in terms of raw performance while still maintaining some fairly high luxury standards.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who like what BMW is doing with the "M" cars but I don't count myself among them.
I'd almost be a bit disappointed if Harris went to TG because it would mean the end of those brilliant 30 - 45 minute long form videos where he really gets into his thoughts on a car in favor of 5 to 10 minutes of powerslides and machine gun speed cuts between 349058394805 cameras in that ADD Top Gear style.
Anyway, here are some more photos from the Petersen Museum.
Anyway, here are some more photos from the Petersen Museum.
Darth Pinche
Member
I really like Chris Harris and while I like the idea of him on Top Gear, ultimately I think Top Gear should just go away and let new independent shows like Chris' take their place. I am also bitter from the last season of TP, Clarkson's crap (on the show) just burned me out.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Why would BBC even entertain the idea of a billion dollar franchise going away? You can't be serious wishing that.
This statement is more ludicrous than the thought of the series going away.
People wish for very unrealistic things all the time, man. Beyond that, it's a specific use of language to help describe how much they have grown tired of the show, not actually offering up the idea that they should stop airing the series.
I think he has a point in that trying to recapture the magic of something like TG in its prime usually leads to a hollow and derivative result. If they just try to be Top Gear, beat for beat, they'll probably be looked on as inferior substitutes no matter how good they really are.
I'm about ready to file a lawsuit against the performance shop that has been working on my car. A fucking a two day job turns into almost 2 months and I get my car back for a second time today and more fucking problems. First time I got my car back was after a month in the shop. That time I got it back pissing oil, missing center wheel caps, ding on door, long scratch on rear bumper, and my dashboard was lighting up like a Christmas tree. Almost got into a fight after a huge argument when bringing the car back the first time but thought we straightened everything out. Now after two additional weeks I get the car back with the front grill glued on, scratch on bumper still there, dash pieces glued together (no fucking idea why they even took that apart), car slightly overheating when driving home, and covered in bird shit. Needed to vent somewhere but this is some bullshit.
Darth Pinche
Member
I'm saying that there can be shows other than Top Gear created by the BBC. They can start fresh and not try to recreate the same format. Top Gear was fantastic and to try to make a new version is folly.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
They will start fresh. But Top Gear is a brand. And they'll never ditch the name, it would absolute commercial suicide to do that.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Audi...wtf? Why is there is a big giant vent running across your entire dash panel? That is just bleehhhhhh
Clearly fans of the outgoing Chevy Malibu...
Audi...wtf? Why is there is a big giant vent running across your entire dash panel? That is just bleehhhhhh
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Beyond Audi and GM agreeing that cars should have interiors, possibly with steering wheels...what?
Audi...wtf? Why is there is a big giant vent running across your entire dash panel? That is just bleehhhhhh
What model is that?