Support NeoGAF

[chubigans]

Pretty interesting article that talks about the decline of movies like the Birdcage: http://www.avclub.com/article/after-birdcage-hollywood-shoved-gay-comedies-back--234273

In 2013, news broke that Channing Tatum and John Milhiser (formerly of Saturday Night Live) were set to star in a gay romantic comedy from director Paul Feig, who was fresh off the massive success of Bridesmaids. The premise sounded endearing enough: A relative average Joey (Milhiser) lands a hunky hottie, played by the former “Sexiest Man Alive” himself, and can’t believe his good fortune. In the time-honored tradition of romantic comedies, hijinks ensue.

If you’re wondering why you haven’t heard of that movie, it’s because it never existed: Feig pitched executives the idea of the 21 Jump Street actor playing the lead, and his “pie-in-the-sky” choice trickled its way onto the internet as a genuine casting announcement. Nearly three years later, that film hasn’t been made with Tatum, Milhiser, or anyone else. In fact, there hasn’t been a gay studio comedy at all since Sacha Baron Cohen released Brüno in 2009, based on the flamboyant Austrian reporter Cohen originated on Da Ali G Show.

Today’s Hollywood has gone back in the closet, and it’s not just Rupert Everett urging gay actors not to come out. A 2014 Williams Institute report attested to widespread bias against LGBT actors behind the scenes. The think tank polled queer SAG members and found that nearly half “strongly believed that producers and studio executives think [gay] performers are less marketable.” A majority personally witnessed discrimination. “An openly gay extra was fired because the lead character felt uncomfortable having him around,” the Institute reports. “In fact, two were fired a week apart for the same reason.” If the industry is uncomfortable with gay people even being on set, it’s no wonder they’re treated as worthless and laughable on screen.

Lots more at the link.

 

[echoshifting]

I'm glad you made a thread about this, I read it yesterday and found it really interesting. Crazy that that Paul Feig movie just vanished into thin air.

 

[MontyMarx]

Too many people would get upset so they're better safe then sorry, in their minds.

 

[Rayis]

I really want to see that gay romantic comedy, I hope they pull their head out of their ass and make it

 

[Discotheque]

Birdcage was hilarious. Really like that movie a lot.

Damn shame about this. There are plenty of actors out there who are forced to be ambiguous about their preference now.

 

[riotous]

90s were an interesting time.. you could get away with more homophobic and racist jokes but also a lot of media was almost more progressive than it is today.

I think everything has moved towards being more homogenized. While you won't see a lot of jokes in movies where someone just gets called "gay" or a "fag" (watch movies from anywhere before 2005 and it's almost shocking how often these lame jokes are told), you also won't see movies like To Wong Foo or The Birdcage.

I think the country is more progressive but media has just gone towards the middle as much as possible.. offend no-one and sell products.

 

[gamz]

Love Birdcage.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

It really does feel like the mainstream gay comedy died with the 90s. Remember In & Out with Kevin Kline?

 

[Rentahamster]

Birdcage is one of my favorite comedies. I want more

 

[maxcriden]

It really does feel like the mainstream gay comedy died with the 90s. Remember In & Out with Kevin Kline?

Fun fact? That film in theaters was my first exposure to gay people...unless the Ellen episode happened first? Unsure if I'd heard of gay people before this.

(I should mention I was 9.)

 

[gamz]

At least TV still has gay comedy.

 

[blame space]

they should do a To Wong Foo 2

 

[SFenton]

I think the country is more progressive but media has just gone towards the middle as much as possible.. offend no-one and sell products.

Agreed, with the explosion of social media. It's difficult to tackle touchy subjects, it's more difficult to tackle them in a way that everybody's happy. Kind of sucks, but it's a business- remember the couple of days people were miffed over The Ancient One's casting for Doctor Strange?

To topic, I haven't seen much of it, but I've enjoyed Grace and Frankie on Netflix. Certainly not a comedy but it falls under the wider umbrella of "media prominently featuring a gay couple", and I definitely recommend checking it out.

 

[blame space]

not that dressing in drag and being gay are the same thing, but they just should.

 

[gamz]

Agreed, with the explosion of social media. It's difficult to tackle touchy subjects, it's more difficult to tackle them in a way that everybody's happy. Kind of sucks, but it's a business- remember the couple of days people were miffed over The Ancient One's casting for Doctor Strange?

To topic, I haven't seen much of it, but I've enjoyed Grace and Frankie on Netflix. Certainly not a comedy but it falls under the wider umbrella of "media prominently featuring a gay couple", and I definitely recommend checking it out.

Sense 8 too

 

[echoshifting]

It really does feel like the mainstream gay comedy died with the 90s. Remember In & Out with Kevin Kline?

Yeah, there's a good bit in the article about In & Out:

The following year, Kevin Kline starred in the decidedly non-drag In & Out. Kline plays Howard Brackett, a schoolteacher who is outed by a former student. His one-time pupil wins an Academy Award for playing a gay character (à la Tom Hanks in Philadelphia) and thanks Brackett in the speech for teaching him to be tolerant of others. There’s one problem: Howard is engaged to be married to Peggy (Joan Cusack) and he’s straight—or at least he thinks he is? His friends point out that he does own a lot of Barbra Streisand records. In & Out, which received acting nods at the Oscars and Golden Globes, made the equivalent of $121 million in 1997.

What made the reluctant coming-out film successful was not the presence of makeup and heels, but its universal themes of acceptance—of others or yourself. Most of Howard’s friends know that he’s gay before he does and don’t care, but it takes Howard a while to catch up. His fianceé has objections to his realization, of course, but her major complaint is that he waits until their wedding day to figure himself out. Who wouldn’t be upset? But it’s worth it to see hysterical Joan Cusack yell to a crowd of wedding guests “Does anybody here know how many times I’ve had to watch Funny Lady?” before laying into her formerly betrothed.

 

[SFenton]

Sense 8 too

Oh, haven't checked out Sense 8 (little wary of Wachowski output even though I liked Cloud Atlas). Interesting that it's also a Netflix program, though I'd wager it's not as focused on the gay relationship so much as G&F is (since that's the crux of that show)?

 

[mantidor]

It really does feel like the mainstream gay comedy died with the 90s. Remember In & Out with Kevin Kline?

I did like that one, silly fun but nothing terribly offensive.

I guess that is the problem, a movie like the Birdcage wouldn't be made today because people would get worried how it might offend someone, and I'm not talking about bigots but actual lgbt audiences themselves, that is a huge problem with comedy, if it tries to be politically correct it just doesn't work, but we live in a time where people walk on eggshells all the time, at least in public.

At least TV still has gay comedy.

Where? How? I want to know.

 

[Karkador]

I was too young to really understand what Birdcage and Wong Foo were trying to say, but it seemed like those movies were kind of..punching down? Especially with the casting. What redeemed them?

 

[elrechazado]

What about that thought provoking classic vehicle for academy award winner Cuba gooding Jr. - BOAT TRIP

 

[gamz]

Oh, haven't checked out Sense 8 (little wary of Wachowski output even though I liked Cloud Atlas). Interesting that it's also a Netflix program, though I'd wager it's not as focused on the gay relationship so much as G&F is (since that's the crux of that show)?

There's two main stories that focus' on gay characters and an transgender relationship. Both are touching and funny arcs. But, yeah, give Sense8 a try. It's great.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Oh, haven't checked out Sense 8 (little wary of Wachowski output even though I liked Cloud Atlas). Interesting that it's also a Netflix program, though I'd wager it's not as focused on the gay relationship so much as G&F is (since that's the crux of that show)?

There are multiple gay (well gay and lesbian) couples as main focuses in the show

 

[gamz]

I did like that one, silly fun but nothing terribly offensive.

I guess that is the problem, a movie like the Birdcage wouldn't be made today because people would get worried how it might offend someone, and I'm not talking about bigots but actual lgbt audiences themselves, that is a huge problem with comedy, if it tries to be politically correct it just doesn't work, but we live in a time where people walk on eggshells all the time, at least in public.



Where? How? I want to know.

Modern Family man! I love that show and Mitch and Cameron are one of the best parts of the show.

 

[cr0w]

I did like that one, silly fun but nothing terribly offensive.

I guess that is the problem, a movie like the Birdcage wouldn't be made today because people would get worried how it might offend someone, and I'm not talking about bigots but actual lgbt audiences themselves, that is a huge problem with comedy, if it tries to be politically correct it just doesn't work, but we live in a time where people walk on eggshells all the time, at least in public.



Where? How? I want to know.

Modern Family, for one.

I don't watch much TV outside of premium network shows so that's all that comes to mind immediately.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Yeah, there's a good bit in the article about In & Out:

Yeah, I just finished the article. So glad that got a mention, I used to love that movie as a kid. They also mentioned The Kids Are Alright, which was a pretty good one too.

I think Hollywood has this reluctance to do gay films because they don't know how to approach it. Same way that a romantic comedy with two Black leads isn't just a romantic comedy, it's a Black comedy. They get labelled and then pushed out of the mainstream.

Romantic comedies aren't even expensive films to make, they're some of the cheapest right next to horror films. So it isn't some huge risk, the biggest expense is usually the cast, and you could always just go with unknowns.

 

[Zoe]

It really does feel like the mainstream gay comedy died with the 90s. Remember In & Out with Kevin Kline?

Fun fact? That film in theaters was my first exposure to gay people...unless the Ellen episode happened first? Unsure if I'd heard of gay people before this.

In & Out, Ellen, and ER all bothered me back then. The gay characters had to be told that they were gay.

 

[echoshifting]

I was too young to really understand what Birdcage and Wong Foo were trying to say, but it seemed like those movies were kind of..punching down? Especially with the casting. What redeemed them?

I can't comment on Wong Foo, just The Birdcage. I don't think you're entirely wrong...there are a lot of easy jokes and words you just wouldn't hear in a movie these days ("fag" gets tossed around a lot). The characterization of the gay characters does rely on a lot of tropes. I watched the movie recently with my daughter and I had to explain to her the social atmosphere the movie was released in. Homosexuality didn't really start to experience mainstream acceptance until around the time these movies were released, perhaps even afterward.

In the end, though, there are deeply humanizing moments in this film that break through the stereotypes and help to portray these characters as human beings with real emotions and needs. The scene in which Nathan Lane's character is exposed as a man is particularly powerful. I think that's why these movies retain impact and relevance even today.

 

[BobTheFork]

I want to ask a question in an appropriate way as I never saw The BirdCage.

Do Nathan Lane and Robin Williams kiss or have anything like a sex scene (or an implied one)? Is there anything meaningful about a gay relationship in it?

I ask because I always thought The Birdcage was made because it didn't handle things regarding homosexuality in a serious way. It looked like it was built on very old Gay stereotypes from Hollywood. Crossdressing, effeminate, lispy stereotypes.

It never felt like the kind of movie that would be used in an argument on increasing the coverage of homosexuality in movies going forward. It didn't seem to me like a breakthrough picture. Again, didn't see it so I could be wrong but the trailers made if look that way.

 

[SFenton]

There's two main stories that focus' on gay characters and an transgender relationship. Both are touching and funny arcs. But, yeah, give Sense8 a try. It's great.

There are multiple gay (well gay and lesbian) couples as main focuses in the show

Suppose I shouldn't be surprised as the Wachowskis, themselves, are transgender. (I forget that a lot.)

 

[mantidor]

Modern Family man! I love that show and Mitch and Cameron are one of the best parts of the show.

Modern Family, for one.

I don't watch much TV outside of premium network shows so that's all that comes to mind immediately.

Oh I forgot. I love Modern Family but sometimes Mitch and Cam get on my nerves, but yeah I guess there is that.

 

[TheSeks]

Wow. Channing Tatum would've willingly played a gay character? I guess my mind-view of him being a 100% frat-bro isn't that 100%.

 

[gamz]

I want to ask a question in an appropriate way as I never saw The BirdCage.

Do Nathan Lane and Robin Williams kiss or have anything like a sex scene (or an implied one)? Is there anything meaningful about a gay relationship in it?

I ask because I always thought The Birdcage was made because it didn't handle things regarding homosexuality in a serious way. It looked like it was built on very old Gay stereotypes from Hollywood. Crossdressing, effeminate, lispy stereotypes.

It never felt like the kind of movie that would be used in an argument on increasing the coverage of homosexuality in movies going forward. It didn't seem to me like a breakthrough picture. Again, didn't see it so I could be wrong but the trailers made if look that way.

I don't recall a kiss but there's very touching scenes between them. Esp one on a park bench near the end. I mean it's more zany comedy, but the heart is in the right place.

 

[echoshifting]

I don't recall a kiss but there's very touching scenes between them. Esp one on a park bench near the end. I mean it's more zany comedy, but the heart is in the right place.

Yeah, they don't really kiss (they sort of peck each other near the lips at one point but I don't think it qualifies), but their relationship feels very real and intimate throughout.

It would have been cool to see them kiss but even that small peck made a lot of people uncomfortable. Such were the times.

 

[mantidor]

I want to ask a question in an appropriate way as I never saw The BirdCage.

Do Nathan Lane and Robin Williams kiss or have anything like a sex scene (or an implied one)? Is there anything meaningful about a gay relationship in it?

I ask because I always thought The Birdcage was made because it didn't handle things regarding homosexuality in a serious way. It looked like it was built on very old Gay stereotypes from Hollywood. Crossdressing, effeminate, lispy stereotypes.

It never felt like the kind of movie that would be used in an argument on increasing the coverage of homosexuality in movies going forward. It didn't seem to me like a breakthrough picture. Again, didn't see it so I could be wrong but the trailers made if look that way.

There is not much kissing but it is absolutely implied they do sleep together and are very close physically to one another.

They definitely have more displays of public affection than the straight parents for sure, who are shown to be super conservative.

 

[blame space]

Wow. Channing Tatum would've willingly played a gay character? I guess my mind-view of him being a 100% frat-bro isn't that 100%.

makes u wonder if your mindview is wrong about other things!

 

[gamz]

Albert: Don't give me that tone!
Armand: What tone?
Albert: That sarcastic contemptuous tone that means you know everything because you're a man, and I know nothing because I'm a woman.
Armand: You're not a woman.
Albert: Oh, you bastard!


Cracks me up every time.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Great movie.

 

[BobTheFork]

There is not much kissing but it is absolutely implied they do sleep together and are very close physically to one another.

They definitely have more displays of public affection than the straight parents for sure, who are shown to be super conservative.

I don't recall a kiss but there's very touching scenes between them. Esp one on a park bench near the end. I mean it's more zany comedy, but the heart is in the right place.

Thank you. I wasn't sure if it was seen as a progressive movie at the time. sounds like things were handled well.

 

[Etzer]

Where? How? I want to know.

Other than Mitch and Cam on Modern Family, The Real O'Neals on ABC is about a kid coming out to his Catholic family.

 

[Robdraggoo]

Will and grace was hugely popular at the time it was on. Lightning in a bottle. Surprised no one attempted to recapture that.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

Birdcage is a classic

"Don't forget da shrimps!"

😂😂😂😂

 

[A Link to the Past]

At least TV still has gay comedy.

I think that this is my takeaway from all of this. At least TV is so diverse that I'll never have to go wanting for LGBT representation in it.

 

[echoshifting]

Yeah, it's interesting that tv is light years ahead of film when it comes to LGBT representation. I wonder why that is? I guess mainstream appeal is more important for movies...? That's the best I can come up with.

 

[lenovox1]

Will and grace was hugely popular at the time it was on. Lightning in a bottle. Surprised no one attempted to recapture that.

They've tried lots of times. Remember Partners on NBC? And that one was even helmed by the creators of Will & Grace. John Goodman even had a sitcom on FOX called Normal, Ohio that lasted for about a minute.

W&G's success can be attributed to the American media's obsession with the lives of upper class, white Manhattanites at the time, an attractive cast, a very strong, prominent female lead, and it's strong, wittty adult humor that was new for broadcast television at the time, along with the lightning in the bottle factor.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

90s were an interesting time.. you could get away with more homophobic and racist jokes but also a lot of media was almost more progressive than it is today.

I think everything has moved towards being more homogenized. While you won't see a lot of jokes in movies where someone just gets called "gay" or a "fag" (watch movies from anywhere before 2005 and it's almost shocking how often these lame jokes are told), you also won't see movies like To Wong Foo or The Birdcage.

I think the country is more progressive but media has just gone towards the middle as much as possible.. offend no-one and sell products.

The 90's were a interesting time for media compare to today if you think about it.

 

[snaffles]

I Love You Phillip Morris was really good I thought, but as they state in the article it didn't get a very wide release.

 

[cr0w]

Wow. Channing Tatum would've willingly played a gay character? I guess my mind-view of him being a 100% frat-bro isn't that 100%.

Based on everything I've seen and heard he's an extraordinarily decent human being in real life.

http://diply.com/jump-up/channing-tatum-ultimate-good-guy/143306

Yeah it's a list, but it compiles a lot of good stuff he's done off-screen.

 

[gamz]

Channing Tatum playing a gay character doesn't sound like a stretch to me.

 

[echoshifting]

Channing Tatum playing a gay character doesn't sound like a stretch to me.

Yeah not at all. He's a good guy with a surprising amount of range.

 

[Sanjuro]

Are we ready for a gay James Bond?