• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Avadon: The Black Fortress |OT| Quality PC (including Steam for $9.99) and iPad CRPG

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Radogol said:
I was about to do the same and even throw in Nethergate for good measure, but found no PayPal option on checkout :(
I probably should have put the details in the OP
4. To order by Paypal: Send payment to spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com. Then E-mail us at spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com telling us you have ordered. Give your name, address, what products you want.

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/ordering.html

Also, Nethergate is definitely worth it, just to experience. For better or for worse (mostly better) its one of the more interesting RPGs I've played, although it is quite dated.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Er, yeah, brainfart... Just meant the structured story with choices vs the open roaming approach...
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Oh...my god. So...many words. I have to read my RPGs again? What the hell is this, 1997???


THANK GOD
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
About 3 hours in:

Different from Geneforge, but very intriguing. I think I like some of the bigger changes that make it more "modern."
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
RockPaperShotgun wrote about the Windows/demo release but nothing fancy. I hope they do a Wot I Think (which should be favorable, and funny). Maybe hits will compel them?
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I guess I shouldn't triple post so I'm editing this one. All my screenshots so far, all just from the demo, which I'm getting the most out of. It's been straightforward but fun.
http://i.picpar.com/f83427727b3e75d32b5ee9b9b3c3996c4ba46981.png
http://i.picpar.com/8aec28a1c085db7dbc7c5d95cb360f25e853ec0d.png
http://i.picpar.com/b0f3fd4471ebe28c74a7627a2462e4e0b0ee0776.png
http://i.picpar.com/6b983a47a8954fc1f4cafd1d16dab62f7d0f4a8c.png
http://i.picpar.com/5bb399a9db3462b8980d7e74e82bc1ed4a284be8.png
http://i.picpar.com/cdc7db17c7515749e0899b725f7c450abedca46c.png
http://i.picpar.com/5b2aa76f0a6d27d4e0ebca684ce6a83a0eddb63a.png
http://i.picpar.com/d55e50f7993db04ee69c6747581fddef3537eebb.png
http://i.picpar.com/f35bf0c8eacca7992d5255ac9090c35bb77d03b1.png
http://i.picpar.com/fb358595899cc30f5089c4e865e13250052e5a3b.png
http://i.picpar.com/746694b899b3463ab134cf27b15e6abffd617f43.png
http://i.picpar.com/0a4a10c87b73d7014ed03576edd11d3f175fe1cc.png
http://i.picpar.com/119984302b56a65ab8a35e1cb4cf5989088bd85b.png
http://i.picpar.com/fa65d15496c66c11f273b21683f3d83e9116b5ab.png
http://i.picpar.com/1707fc8b462a133386034e49385e24de7a4f0cac.png
http://i.picpar.com/484d0e1e87422dc52747e5896b91bc16292d12ee.png
http://i.picpar.com/2151d13abc9bbaf5274b0290da55f0dcdcedc9f6.png
http://i.picpar.com/97f6e109eec5311b25a41daddaf0ed567510c35e.png
http://i.picpar.com/c7eb0e16884361920843ddad1dbf974d71c3d9a3.png
http://i.picpar.com/08dbf46e7607dbe9c312374f128603a77908434c.png
http://i.picpar.com/2ffcdaea9c5e199ca25b3e8f7d92c0db636e3c7f.png
http://i.picpar.com/3652f048c57682a4444d575933684b228b049b5f.png
http://i.picpar.com/7aac799c3e903692c82055efda9e1379144f4b7c.png
http://i.picpar.com/e7bb52fa2a8fcbdd8d8bec014ca9428120e7b1d0.png
http://i.picpar.com/53c6be72094ee85204632f2b82420114c6fd0e44.png
http://i.picpar.com/7ac826c36511311b7d966f4709fde0ab1919f0e1.png
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Meh. On second look, I'm disappointed in this so far. Too linear for an old school throwback. Character classes are too restrictive and the party system kind of blows.

Not bad or anything, but not really great.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Are you talking about the demo or the full game? Maybe I don't remember so well but I don't think I was doing anything more complex than what the demo offers in the beginning stages of something like say, Baldur's Gate II or Icewind Dale (both of which I love for different reasons, and actually played relatively recently). Granted, D&D is a much deeper combat system and I had to learn it from scratch when playing those two games, which was quite the task initially (although low levels aren't exactly complex either), but the exploration and discussions were on the same level as what I've seen in Avadon's demo. Not every classic/good RPG (not that I'm claiming this is a classic, I'd have to finish it first) is as open as Fallout or has as many choices as Planescape Torment. So, yeah, you're sent on a simple first task (talk to Dragon, do as he asks, return) but on the way you can explore and do other tasks at your leisure. I played for a few hours yet I never did that first task (the area you complete it in is unavailable in the demo).

There were several quests to do and the underground areas were pretty much as large as the surface, I liked that multilayered feel. I also liked the inventory management, I got quite a few items, accumulated about 3000 gold from the quests and spent some time buying, selling and pimping out my characters, including a trip back to Avalon to reforge some equipment with a couple buff gems. The weight limit made it so I couldn't just equip the best armor even if I did meet its requirements. For example I had to have my warrior using some light leather gear and only a few iron/steel/plate items trying to maximise the armor he could have before getting encumbered, and to balance his attack.

The fights were as easy as any RPG's early areas. I did come across enemies that had some immunities and area of effect skills at one point. I read these games should be played on Hard or Torment, normal (which is what I played on) is apparently meant for most people to be able to complete it without much frustration, and casual is for total newbies.

But yeah this definitely appears to be his most streamlined game so you might wanna try his previous titles as Technomancer described their qualities (or was that in another thread?). Just keep in mind the further back you go the more dated they will seem to be even compared to Avadon's polish (duh).
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, the linearity is definitely my biggest problem with Avadon, hands down. It feels so restrictive after his other games, even though the story does begin to get interesting after the second mission or so.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's your biggest problem but is it a big problem, still haven't purchased it so it helps to know :)
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Alextended said:
Are you talking about the demo or the full game? Maybe I don't remember so well but I don't think I was doing anything more complex than what the demo offers in the beginning stages of something like say, Baldur's Gate II or Icewind Dale (both of which I love for different reasons, and actually played relatively recently). Granted, D&D is a much deeper combat system and I had to learn it from scratch when playing those two games, which was quite the task initially (although low levels aren't exactly complex either), but the exploration and discussions were on the same level as what I've seen in Avadon's demo. Not every classic/good RPG (not that I'm claiming this is a classic, I'd have to finish it first) is as open as Fallout or has as many choices as Planescape Torment. So, yeah, you're sent on a simple first task (talk to Dragon, do as he asks, return) but on the way you can explore and do other tasks at your leisure. I played for a few hours yet I never did that first task (the area you complete it in is unavailable in the demo).

There were several quests to do and the underground areas were pretty much as large as the surface, I liked that multilayered feel. I also liked the inventory management, I got quite a few items, accumulated about 3000 gold from the quests and spent some time buying, selling and pimping out my characters, including a trip back to Avalon to reforge some equipment with a couple buff gems. The weight limit made it so I couldn't just equip the best armor even if I did meet its requirements. For example I had to have my warrior using some light leather gear and only a few iron/steel/plate items trying to maximise the armor he could have before getting encumbered, and to balance his attack.

The fights were as easy as any RPG's early areas. I did come across enemies that had some immunities and area of effect skills at one point. I read these games should be played on Hard or Torment, normal (which is what I played on) is apparently meant for most people to be able to complete it without much frustration, and casual is for total newbies.

But yeah this definitely appears to be his most streamlined game so you might wanna try his previous titles as Technomancer described their qualities (or was that in another thread?). Just keep in mind the further back you go the more dated they will seem to be even compared to Avadon's polish (duh).

I bought the game on principle alone. I've still got a ways to go, but honestly, I haven't seen anything open really at all. Dungeons are kind of dull so far, but the combat is simplistic fun at it's best. I am still annoyed that the characters choices are so limited and the party is basically 2 people at a time. I am happy to have any CRPG at this point, but if you're going to make one, I feel that you ought to fully commit.

But, it's probably just Minecraft fucking with my head again. That game really raised the bar in terms of what I expect out of "indie" games.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
WanderingWind said:
But, it's probably just Minecraft fucking with my head again. That game really raised the bar in terms of what I expect out of "indie" games.
Not necessarily. If you don't feel that this game is utter shite then I would recommend giving at least one other game by him a chance. I'd recommend giving Geneforge a spin, its still his best IMHO
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The_Technomancer said:
Not necessarily. If you don't feel that this game is utter shite then I would recommend giving at least one other game by him a chance. I'd recommend giving Geneforge a spin, its still his best IMHO

Nah, I didn't want to come across as a hater or a contrarily. Again, I love the fact that somebody is taking a stab at the CRPG. All the old masters have faded into dust or became that which they hated, so the scraps that have been left behind all seem like a feast.

Just, I don't know. If this game let me do more about making the character my own, or a fully-fleshed out character in its own right and not just "NINJA MAN" or "SORCERESS LADY" and gave us a full party and allowed for some meaningful exploration, I'd be happy.

However, little touches like the fluid combat, the random encounters that flesh out the world, and the old-schoolness of it all are much appreciated.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, if you want exploration that matters then Geneforge 1 is one of the best games I've ever played in that regard. Imagine finding yourself on the island from LOST, except that the Dharma initiative was focused on genetic manipulation, and they left their race of slave-people behind, who are now developing their own cultures for the first time.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, if you want exploration that matters then Geneforge 1 is one of the best games I've ever played in that regard. Imagine finding yourself on the island from LOST, except that the Dharma initiative was focused on genetic manipulation, and they left their race of slave-people behind, who are now developing their own cultures for the first time.

I'll give it a shot, but I get the feeling that the next game they make will be a bonafide winner.
 

xelios

Universal Access can be found under System Preferences
Been loving this game. I've played most of Spiderweb's games so it feels a bit restrictive at first in comparison, but I like the updated graphics and some of the changes (talent trees for instance). It's fun, they make good stuff that not many other developers make anymore, highly recommended if you want something different.

Better than Eschalon imo, which I was into at first because it felt very Ultima-ish, but was quickly let down.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I guess this is, in a way, Spiderweb's "Icewind Dale" then? Well, it's bought, I enjoyed that game all the same, and have been enjoying this so far. I'm playing on hard and I get my ass handed to me every so often until I figure out how to take down a particular stronger enemy or boss. I'm mainly using the Shadowalker and Sorceress companions, my main character is a Blademaster. Though I equip the others every time I return to Avadon too, and I tried out the Shaman companion in place of the Shadowalker a bit, she seems cool enough. I just done with the third main quest, I liked the last one personally, even though people say I'm far from where the story gets good, those events are sure to bring trouble later. It felt wrong when I couldn't choose to stand against an obviously malicious character, but overall I like how the stories are told so far.
 

Primate Ryan

Neo Member
Well then, I was enjoying myself until I hit the part fairly early in the game where you visit the
wretches
for the
dragon
.

The game has almost become unplayable. While I had some stuttering before that point, it is now constant and mouse clicks often don't register. My pc is good enough to play Dragon Age 1 with 60 fps so that shouldn't be the problem. I also tried playing in Windowed mode, changing some of the settings, compatibility mode, only assigning one core to the game and updating my drivers, but nothing changes.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Primate Ryan said:
Well then, I was enjoying myself until I hit the part fairly early in the game where you visit the
wretches
for the
dragon
.

The game has almost become unplayable. While I had some stuttering before that point, it is now constant and mouse clicks often don't register. My pc is good enough to play Dragon Age 1 with 60 fps so that shouldn't be the problem. I also tried playing in Windowed mode, changing some of the settings, compatibility mode, only assigning one core to the game and updating my drivers, but nothing changes.
Thats very weird. Maybe post about it on the Spiderweb Forums, they're usually pretty good about taking bug reports/offering advice.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Yeah I haven't encountered any real bugs (on Windows 7) outside the very occasional slight freeze before a spell or something like that plays out. I hope you'll get a solution.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I finished the shaman companion chick's homeland quests (and a few side quests here and there before moving on with the main plot), that was pretty good (and tough, maybe I went too early?) except for the very end. You get to make a choice there about an NPC but after making it, nothing changes, you can even talk to the NPC again and have the same dialogue and choose something else, Bioware style. Couldn't he at least make the dialogue show the matter is closed and they'll make preparations for what you chose or whatever, even if nothing more actually happens before your eyes? Other dialogues in the game do at least do this (such as the evidence papers thing).

Also, maybe I suck at this because I'm reading online how people manage to go through whatever area, on Torment difficulty, without using skills or consumables, to show that the system is apparently broken and too easy, but I often have trouble on Hard and resort to using up many consumables (like group healing scrolls, blessing stones, etc), which aren't virtually infinite as in other games, money is limited despite selling all that loot. Traders only sell limited supplies anyway, and you'll want to spend the money on armor and other things depending on the part you're on (I just got to a castle and there's a tailor and a smith that sell some good stuff and I only have enough money for a few pieces, nowhere near enough to get things for all my party, not that they even sell enough for all of them).

Anyway, fun game so far, I only have minor issues with it, for what it is. Is it a bug that makes all doors, stairs, crates, chests, etc, not display at all anymore (when they're in fog of war) after you leave the area and revisit it later? It makes it hard to remember where you left locked chests or certain exits that aren't shown on the large map.

Some more screens here.

I tried to post some of this on the guy's blog twice, the Google profile link seems broken and I don't have any of the other supported logins...
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
She's in the garden past the dining room. She's a shaman and likes nature :p

Shima is in the dining room himself.

Basically Avadon's Western area. I think, it's weird with its diagonals.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I missed this, the game's now out on Desura, moddb's digital distribution thing. It seems cheaper too. But I've never used that so I can't tell you if it's worth it. If anyone knows what the DRM is like, if it has a mandatory application like Steam, or more relaxed like Impulse, or it's a DRM-free website like gog, can tell you him/herself.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
May I reiterate how boss the combat system is? Please keep it for future projects Spiderweb!
And hire me to market your shit so it sells millions, kthx!
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Alextended said:
She's in the garden past the dining room. She's a shaman and likes nature :p

Shima is in the dining room himself.

Basically Avadon's Western area. I think, it's weird with its diagonals.
I still can't find where in that area I need to get the information so I can follow her.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Oh, I'm really sorry about that, I thought you never even spoke to her and that she never left the garden for the quest to begin. I forgot that you need to find her letter after that part. Go to the dining room, then downstairs. Jenell's quarters are all the way to the left and near the middle. I hope you didn't pixel hunt in the garden for too long...

Edit: here: http://i.picpar.com/cf43b20a810ff4dac5fb7798e8b841f3a847e16e.png
 
Finished the demo of it the other day. The way the character system works where you can only bring 3 characters with you on missions while the others stay in the hub and gain experience on their own kinda reminded me of Chrono Trigger. I know Vogel is adamant about reusing his engine, but I've only played 3 of his demos (not even the full games!) and I'm already starting to get tired of some of the repeated sound effects and graphics...
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Reusing assets sounds like a must to keep development going. Geneforge 4 sold 4000 copies. See my post here. There are welcome improvements over the years, just nothing they could do if they actually had a more mainstream acceptance. Who knows, maybe Avadon will be the start of it all with its various interface and graphical updates. Buy it!
 

Van Buren

Member
cooljeanius said:
Finished the demo of it the other day. The way the character system works where you can only bring 3 characters with you on missions while the others stay in the hub and gain experience on their own kinda reminded me of Chrono Trigger. I know Vogel is adamant about reusing his engine, but I've only played 3 of his demos (not even the full games!) and I'm already starting to get tired of some of the repeated sound effects and graphics...

Honestly, the art for the graphics is constantly improving in his games. Either that, or I'm so numb to them, that I don't mind them anymore.

On the other hand, the repeated ambient sounds used in place of music is starting to stand out when compared to the gradual improvements in graphics. Eschalon had a few catchy tunes that worked well when my character slowly plodded across the map. They would do wonders for Spiderweb Software games too.

EDIT: I'm not hating on the game, though - I'm a fan of every single one of their games ( though to varying degrees). But I can dream for a few changes, can't I ?
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Yeah, I'm sure he could at least find some nice fully free tracks that fit his themes if nothing else. Maybe the thought hasn't occured to him...
 

Van Buren

Member
That said, if budgetary constraints forced him to choose between commissioning music tracks and consistent rpg mechanics & writing, I'll take the latter every time.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, the further I get into this the more it really grows on me. The first few hours didn't seem so hot, but I'm really really enjoying myself now that things are opening up more. Combat is definitely awesome, I feel a real sense of progression as my abilities become more and more varied and powerful.
 

Primate Ryan

Neo Member
Primate Ryan said:
Well then, I was enjoying myself until I hit the part fairly early in the game where you visit the
wretches
for the
dragon
.

The game has almost become unplayable. While I had some stuttering before that point, it is now constant and mouse clicks often don't register. My pc is good enough to play Dragon Age 1 with 60 fps so that shouldn't be the problem. I also tried playing in Windowed mode, changing some of the settings, compatibility mode, only assigning one core to the game and updating my drivers, but nothing changes.

Update: the DirectX version works flawlessly, but since I bought the game from Gamersgate , I don't have a key for that version. I mailed Spiderweb and hope to be up and running again tonight or tomorrow.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
That's good, though I think the DX exe only runs in low color depth (see the banding etc in the title screen for example) so keep looking for other solutions, just in case.
 

Ruuppa

Member
Playing a Hard Shadowwalker, and just got to the 3rd new area. Really enjoying it so far, but I miss having a fourth party-member like I had in Avernums. Messes me up that I can't have my usual Tank/Ranger/Mage/Priest combo going. Doesn't matter all that much difficulty -wise, since even on Hard an experienced player can blaze through most fights.

Oh, and a Ctrl+J like from Baldur's Gate wouldn't be amiss. It's annoying to track my way through old areas, looking for stuff I missed or people who have gained new quests.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
What did Ctrl+J do in BGII? I don't remember. Edit; oh, the teleport cheat I guess. I'd probably only use it in a replay, if that. A field of view cheat might have seen use, in already visited areas, so I can find the chests and entrances I didn't have lockpicks for previously a little easier. Only a little though, since everything resets to closed.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Some more screens here. The game crashed while I was fighting a Drake as I attempted to cast Ice Storm. I wasn't doing too great anyway, it's a weird battle that lasts a while. Before that in another quest I fought some kind of ghost that kept banishing party members. I won't explain what that does exactly. It's all been pretty fun, love the battles.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Woot, passed that quest too. The story's getting more and more interesting. Also, lol @ Avadon's version of Q giving me crazy and mostly useless items. This game's great.
 
Have you played Exile/Avernum? And how would you compare it to those games?

I absolutely loved Exile 1-3 back in the day, and explored 100% of Avernum 1-3. I had A4 shareware version but never got far, and never liked the Geneforge games

This looks supremely interesting.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Alextended said:
Some more screens here. The game crashed while I was fighting a Drake as I attempted to cast Ice Storm. I wasn't doing too great anyway, it's a weird battle that lasts a while. Before that in another quest I fought some kind of ghost that kept banishing party members. I won't explain what that does exactly. It's all been pretty fun, love the battles.
Yeah, I got there and gave up on that one last night. Managed to get him to heal the one warrior, at the expense of two of my characters, then when he said I had to take out the other two as well, and all I had was one lone blademaster, I was just "fuck that" and went to bed.

Have you played Exile/Avernum? And how would you compare it to those games?

I absolutely loved Exile 1-3 back in the day, and explored 100% of Avernum 1-3. I had A4 shareware version but never got far, and never liked the Geneforge games

This looks supremely interesting.
Avadon is far more linear, although that changes a bit as the game goes on. Its not nearly as open world as Avernum
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, I got there and gave up on that one last night.
Did you clear that abandoned house in the (I think) previous area? That has a cool fight too so if the Drake annoys you (well, I'm sure you'll get it right next time you play really, but I've got some tips if not) maybe go to an earlier save and do the other quests in the area first if you haven't.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Alextended said:
Did you clear that abandoned house in the (I think) previous area? That has a cool fight too so if the Drake annoys you (well, I'm sure you'll get it right next time you play really, but I've got some tips if not) maybe go to an earlier save and do the other quests in the area first if you haven't.
Got down to the final level and just couldn't take her out, so I said I'd come back with a few more levels. I'm thinking of just swapping out the shaman for my mage, I think the universal healing and the wolf will be more useful then direct damage.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I beat it with blademaster, shadowwalker, sorceress. But I had to use several scrolls and potions and I also have a scarab on my sorceress that gives her a group heal. She's basically my healer as well as mage, I give her all the scrolls etc and keep her out of trouble with most damage happening from the other two while she does buffs/debuffs, unless an enemy is particularly weak to her damage spells. But yeah there's no reason to be afraid of using items when they're actually needed.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I imagine you can download either version and input your key. I don't remember having to choose what version I want when purchasing it but I guess that varies depending on where you buy from. Maybe you can just email him and ask if you want to be 100% sure. Perhaps third party digital distribution portals and services handle keys differently.
 
Top Bottom