-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Avadon: The Black Fortress |OT| Quality PC (including Steam for $9.99) and iPad CRPG
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh sweet. Avadon is nice but its pretty streamlined and even a little dumbed down. The Avernum remakes are going to win a lot of fans I think.Cryptozoologist said:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Blog post by the developer about the porting process, some interesting stuff:
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-first-game-is-out-for-ipad-hooray.html
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-first-game-is-out-for-ipad-hooray.html
Reluctant-Hero
Member
So what are your, or anyone else's, positives & negatives regarding the iPad app? I just picked up an iPad2 and I'm strongly considering purchasing Avadon.Jugendstil said:
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Totally feeling ripped off with the iOS release being so much cheaper. His half assed explanation for it was silly to say the least. The iOS version is according to Jeff apparently worth less because it's limited to the native res of the iPad instead of any res you want and there are no keyboard shortcuts and shit like that, while performance can be a little ropy on iPad versus the iPad 2. Like, no shit dude. In the end, he just told me Avadon, the game, is worth $10 even though I paid over double that just a short while ago. Why am I punished for having one OS over the other when his game is available on both? Hell, even if I had an iPad I had no way to know the release would be so much cheaper in order to choose to wait it out for that short while. Suffice to say I won't be buying future Spiderweb games if they're priced over $10 since he says they all will have iOS releases from now on. So I guess that means I won't be buying them at all if he keeps ripping PC users off. And that's the reason I've not been posting all his news here either and didn't even make this post in all the previous bumps, but was in the mood for it this time. Had there been price parity I would have no problem to keep promoting his stuff here. iOS sales should have just been supplementary to the main PC userbase so a higher than the usual price point of the App store would have been fine for that, without pissing people who already paid far more off. Now if he later finds iOS sales are so great that at $10 they better support the development of his games than the $25 PC release, even in that case I also see no reason for there to be a price difference from now on if the iOS version alone would make it profitable and the PC sales would end up supplementary to that, at the same price range. With all the know how he's accumualted over the years having a PC/Mac version wouldn't cost him that much more to demand over double the $ to keep providing that. It's not even like the game got older and thus cheaper in the meantime, he's still selling it at the higher price on PC, he rarely has sales and stuff.</terrible rant>
LocoMrPollock
Banned
Good grief dude.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its not the best Spiderweb RPG but its pretty good. Too linear for my tastes and it takes some pointers from BioWare, but its pretty well written, the combat system is fun, and exploration and questing is a good time.Reluctant-Hero said:
DangerousDave
Member
Alextended said:
Is as simple as:
At 25$, in Mac-PC, he sell X copies. But the kind of game is so niche that he will sell only a few units more if it put it at 10$, but he will gain much less for copy. It won't be affordable.
In iPad, at 25$, no one will buy the game. Who really want to pay 25$ already done it in Mac or PC. In iPad no one expect to pay the same than in PC. You can see tons of PC or console games (Plants vs Zombies, Puzzle Quests, Dungeon Defenders, Max & Magic Marker, etc) that are sold by less. If you look any iPhone/iPad thread, you'll see that people think that 5$ is too much for most games. 25 is like a 200$ game for PC or Mac.
So Avadon guy don't have to charge the same in iPad than Mac because is "fair". He has to charge what he think that will give him benefits.
DangerousDave
Member
Alextended said:
I don't understand your complain.
The PC/Mac version should be 10$? Or the iPad version should be 25$?
If it's the first, the answer is simple, he won't be able to get enough benefits of the game for living.
If it's the second... are you asking for a game to be more expensive?
IamMikeside said:I wish I had time to put into games like this - I used to be so addicted to RPGs, but I simply can't put enough hours into a session these days
same here, i bought avadon and it really reminded me of those Infinity Engine games i loved so much back in the day... but i rarely find myself with time to dig in.
jon bones said:
OK, I've got a plan
You can do my job (but I'll take the money), take care of my girlfriend and all that stuff for a year in addition to living your own life & I'll just play awesome huge RPGs, then next year I'll do the same for you...that way we'll both have time! Sound good?
Also, no funny stuff with the girlfriend.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Then why reply? I think it's clear and have no other way to explain it. It's how I feel based on the dev's decisions. That's all there is to it. Feel free to feel however you want.DangerousDave said:
His market is now larger than previously since he also offers an iOS version of the same game. Or is the iOS version not selling that well? Given his hasty "all our future games will be on iOS too" blog post I imagine it's doing well. If not, too bad because it still tells me the game is only worth $10 after all so despite not yet owning iOS platforms I'm not gonna be willing to pay more on any platform if that's how he handles his future games so all he's gonna be seeing from me is either $10 or nothing at all which is much less than any of his previous games. Too bad but I don't wanna be the reason random strangers who happen to own another platform get to pay less than I did by helping make up for his costs via an evidently overpriced version. I'd rather help myself. Selfish gamer and all that, much like anyone else.
I'm not gonna snoop around his IRS records or anything like that to make my decisions, I'll only speak as a consumer based on what I see, and what I see is practically the same game offered for $25 on one platform and $10 on another. If others have done it before makes no difference to me, I'd oppose that also had I cared about those games.Clevinger said:
LocoMrPollock
Banned
Alextended said:
Oh ffs dude. The game is worth more than $25 to begin with, and it was on sale for $5 a month ago on D2D. Everyone knew it wouldn't launch at $25 on the ipad. Why? Because it's suicidal and it wouldn't have sold. It's a completely different market, and you can't very well play the ios version on your home pc, can you? No.
In any case, the bottom line is if you didn't feel the game was worth $25, then you shouldn't have bought the fucking thing. End of story. But please, continue to act like a 5 year old brat if you need to.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Did I kill your dog or demand that you feel the way I feel about the whole thing? Other people are constantly replying to challenge what I think/feel for myself, my money, my games, as if I should change my mind, now you come with the same attitude because you're a fanboy that would pay any price for it. Feel free to send the guy cash for nothing if it makes you happy, I didn't ask and I don't care about that shit. I should be the one going "ffs why is what I decide for me so important to you guys?" or whatever, not you, lol.LocoMrPollock said:
And yes obviously it's my fault I bought it. So what, I can't complain about the situation? I couldn't complain if I hadn't enjoyed the game either? I could ask for my money back but I won't sa I've finished it and don't want to be a jerk for the sake of it like other people appear to do here, that doesn't mean I won't express my dissatisfaction with things just as you express you'd be willing to pay more than $25 or whatever else. Deal with it. Or don't, I couldn't care less, I'm done with this shit.
No, though he could have informed us, since there were debates about it on various forums, including his, but he did not.
Riiight.
When you paid $25 for the game you did so because you felt it was worth it. That the game then was available for cheaper elsewhere shouldn't have any bearing on your original decision.
Do you get pissed if a pair of jeans you bought goes on sale a couple weeks later? Are the jeans somehow now worth less to you?
Do you get pissed if a pair of jeans you bought goes on sale a couple weeks later? Are the jeans somehow now worth less to you?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Steam release is up: http://store.steampowered.com/app/112100/
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The price stratification thing is pretty obvious. Spiderweb has a strong brand and a loyal following, and can easily command a $25 price. On the iPad, they have no brand, no following, and more intense competition, plus the iPad lends itself more easily to a lower-cost-more-volume model, so a lower pricepoint made sense (even leaving out any content/interface stuff).
Spiderweb's games have not historically been on Steam and I think at least some of the reason why has been their premium price. Steam has a similar value proposition to the iOS App Store; high volume, but stiff competition and a strong downward pressure on price. Also, while Spiderweb has a premium brand on PC, their brand is not well known to a large segment of the market including Steam users. Finally, at this point the Steam release is a fairly late "port" so to speak. We've seen this before; VVVVVV was $15 originally, released for $5 on Steam. Many of these emerging marketplaces help developers reconsider their pricing/value strategies.
I don't think Spiderweb were out to scam anyone. It's a transition period, both the iPad release and the Steam release are experiments in relying on an outside marketplace, which is at odds with the fierce independence Vogel has had before. I hope it works out well for him.
Spiderweb's games have not historically been on Steam and I think at least some of the reason why has been their premium price. Steam has a similar value proposition to the iOS App Store; high volume, but stiff competition and a strong downward pressure on price. Also, while Spiderweb has a premium brand on PC, their brand is not well known to a large segment of the market including Steam users. Finally, at this point the Steam release is a fairly late "port" so to speak. We've seen this before; VVVVVV was $15 originally, released for $5 on Steam. Many of these emerging marketplaces help developers reconsider their pricing/value strategies.
I don't think Spiderweb were out to scam anyone. It's a transition period, both the iPad release and the Steam release are experiments in relying on an outside marketplace, which is at odds with the fierce independence Vogel has had before. I hope it works out well for him.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, the pricing thing has been interesting to follow, especially because Jeff has very very vocally been against the "race to the bottom" model. I agree with most of what Stump said, especially because this is such a late release on Steam.
I'm pretty sure he'll be launching the Avernum remake at $20 across the PC and $15 on iPad though.
For anyone just looking into this thread, my general opinion:
Not the best Spiderweb RPG by a long shot but a fairly enjoyable romp. A bit too linear, even in the early game, and your choices really don't amount to anything, but the variety in combat abilities is fun and the level design and quest design feel very classic. At 9.99 if you enjoy RPGs there's very little reason not to give it a shot.
If linearity bugs you though keep an eye out for my Avernum thread early next year. That's a remake of his first game in the new engine and its classic "huge world many quests freeform"
I'm pretty sure he'll be launching the Avernum remake at $20 across the PC and $15 on iPad though.
For anyone just looking into this thread, my general opinion:
Not the best Spiderweb RPG by a long shot but a fairly enjoyable romp. A bit too linear, even in the early game, and your choices really don't amount to anything, but the variety in combat abilities is fun and the level design and quest design feel very classic. At 9.99 if you enjoy RPGs there's very little reason not to give it a shot.
If linearity bugs you though keep an eye out for my Avernum thread early next year. That's a remake of his first game in the new engine and its classic "huge world many quests freeform"
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
There's a good price now. Buy it folks (per what The_Technomancer said). It's still weird he sells it for more on his website, I imagine there are more people like me who, when they happen to see a Steam game they like yet somehow missed previously, they like going to the developer's website for the actual purchase to support them further (rather than give Steam a cut or whatever). But they won't with the price disparity. Yes, I've read his blog, not much different to his "version differences" justifying the iPad price.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I've bought this game twice on principle. It's a pretty decent game, but I feel as if I'm more investing in the future of Spiderweb, rather than the game itself. I'm excited to see what comes from this in the future.
oneils
Member
Alextended said:
In his blog, Vogel explained the price disparity this way:
- if sales on steam don't take off and it proves to be failure, then he can circle the wagons and take it off steam.
After that his own site would have the game, still for 25bucks.
If he drops his website price now, and steam proves to be a failure, then he has pretty much locked in the 10 dollar price point. He won't be able to recover and raise the price back to 25 bucks.
Essentially, the steam price is an experiment to see if his games appeal to a wider audience for 10 bucks. He already knows his games appeal to very narrow audience for 25 bucks.
Jeff Vogel talks about the Steam release and game pricing on his latest update from his blog:
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/08/avadon-is-out-on-steam.html
Thought it was an interesting read. Will be my first Spiderweb Software game when I pick this up on Steam in the next few days.
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/08/avadon-is-out-on-steam.html
Thought it was an interesting read. Will be my first Spiderweb Software game when I pick this up on Steam in the next few days.
I am pretty concerned about his release timing. Same day as Bastion, a week before Deus Ex: HR, only a few months before Skyrim. RPG fans are pretty set right now with amazing content, they're not really having to go looking for alternative indie content. I also hope he's in communication with the Eschalon people to learn how well they did dropping their prices during the Summer sale. If that was a success, hopefully he'll do the same thing this Xmas sale and meet similar successes.
Still, hope the Steam sales machine works for him. It sounds from his post that Steam actually came to him, that's cool that Steam is still seeking out unique indie content. I know personally the $25 price point has always made it very hard for me to support him when there is such a wealth of alternatives (although not in his specific genre of course) for much much less money. But at $10 I bought the game even with no intention of playing it in the near future (probably won't get around to it until next year.)
Ahh, well, glad to see they changed their minds then. (Or he changed his mind if the price was the barrier to allowing him into the market.)
Still, hope the Steam sales machine works for him. It sounds from his post that Steam actually came to him, that's cool that Steam is still seeking out unique indie content. I know personally the $25 price point has always made it very hard for me to support him when there is such a wealth of alternatives (although not in his specific genre of course) for much much less money. But at $10 I bought the game even with no intention of playing it in the near future (probably won't get around to it until next year.)
Alextended said:
Ahh, well, glad to see they changed their minds then. (Or he changed his mind if the price was the barrier to allowing him into the market.)
Great CRPG on Steam for 10USD ! Soooo bought.
And here is how I will reward the developer. I will buy 2 additional copies for 2 friend that I know crave CRPGs.
For a total of 30 USD. 5 more then if I had paid the game at its original price. That ought to cover the Steam margin that the developer won't get.)
And here is how I will reward the developer. I will buy 2 additional copies for 2 friend that I know crave CRPGs.
For a total of 30 USD. 5 more then if I had paid the game at its original price. That ought to cover the Steam margin that the developer won't get.
)cooljeanius
Member
In that case, how does that explain the Mac App Store version still being $20? It has many of the same characteristics as the iOS App Store and Steam, and yet it's still being sold for a higher price there.Stumpokapow said:
Macmanus
Member
Guys, this is an indie developer playing around with different price points on different platforms. He's seeing what works.
I'm sorry that early and devout customers got burned, but I'm just thrilled this exists.
If it wasn't for this gaming being put up on Steam, I never would have heard of it. I haven't played a video game since early last fall. It's been almost a year and this strikes me as the perfect game at the perfect price point to get back into the hobby - albeit at a very casual level.
I'm sorry that early and devout customers got burned, but I'm just thrilled this exists.
If it wasn't for this gaming being put up on Steam, I never would have heard of it. I haven't played a video game since early last fall. It's been almost a year and this strikes me as the perfect game at the perfect price point to get back into the hobby - albeit at a very casual level.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Looks like the Steam release is getting it reviews from larger outlets: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/avadon-the-black-fortress/review.html?tag=games;game_title;2
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The game is the daily deal today on Steam, grab it for $4.99
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It takes a while. First several hours feel linear and grindy, but then it begins to open up a bit.Fewr said:
It's alright, I'm a consolite peasant in the transition to pc gaming, so I'm used to linearity.The_Technomancer said:
Anyway, if anyone's undecided about it, what I like about it is that it is very well written (imagination >>>> graphics), and (at least so far) I'm not "the chosen one blah blah blah."
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Keep us updated on your impressions, I'm curious what people new to the brand think of Avadon as its a bit different in structure then most his titles.kyubajin said:
Not sure if this is new thread worthy, but Avernum: Escape From the Pit is announced as the next Spiderweb game.
It sounds like a remake of a remake (Exile 1 > Avernum 1 > this). Is Vogel losing his creativity? How many times are people going to be willing to play the same story?
It sounds like a remake of a remake (Exile 1 > Avernum 1 > this). Is Vogel losing his creativity? How many times are people going to be willing to play the same story?