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Back to the Center, Democrats (NYT Op-ed)

entremet

Member
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/...roid-app://com.google.android.talk&utm_medium

The path back to power for the Democratic Party today, as it was in the 1990s, is unquestionably to move to the center and reject the siren calls of the left, whose policies and ideas have weakened the party.

In the early 1990s, the Democrats relied on identity politics, promoted equality of outcomes instead of equality of opportunity and looked to find a government solution for every problem. After years of leftward drift by the Democrats culminated in Republican control of the House under Speaker Newt Gingrich, President Bill Clinton moved the party back to the center in 1995 by supporting a balanced budget, welfare reform, a crime bill that called for providing 100,000 new police officers and a step-by-step approach to broadening health care. Mr. Clinton won a resounding re-election victory in 1996 and Democrats were back.

But the last few years of the Obama administration and the 2016 primary season once again created a rush to the left. Identity politics, class warfare and big government all made comebacks. Candidates inspired by Senator Bernie Sanders, Senator Elizabeth Warren and a host of well-funded groups have embraced sharply leftist ideas. But the results at the voting booth have been anything but positive: Democrats lost over 1,000 legislative seats across the country and control of both houses of Congress during the Obama years. And in special elections for Congress this year, they failed to take back any seats held by Republicans.

Central to the Democrats' diminishment has been their loss of support among working-class voters, who feel abandoned by the party's shift away from moderate positions on trade and immigration, from backing police and tough anti-crime measures, from trying to restore manufacturing jobs. They saw the party being mired too often in political correctness, transgender bathroom issues and policies offering more help to undocumented immigrants than to the heartland

Thoughts?

This was co-written by a former Bill Clinton Staffer. Clearly Democrats are not connecting with the populace. We're getting killed in Governorships, Legislatures, Congress, and SCOTUS.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
I genuinely think the economic center is what is killing democrats. Social issues are great at protests but they do not mobilize voters as much as their wallets do.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
A good political strategy is to listen to Mark Penn, architect of such brilliant campaigns as Hillary 08, and then do the opposite of what he says.
 
I think the main issue is that on local levels, being closer to the center might be advantageous for Dems considering the tons of disparate communities and their individual needs. On a national level, being further to the left is seen as advantageous, as the types of issues that the party platform addresses should be as progressive as possible to display a clear separation from the right and to "energize" those who wouldn't vote otherwise, because they see things as "more of the same".

I'm not sure how to reconcile these two approaches into a unified party approach. The fundamental "issue" of the Democratic Part is that, unlike Republicans, we're crazy diverse. That in itself means there will be a diverse range of issues and opinions of what people feel should be prioritized. Republicans have appealed to the same narrow (demographically speaking) base for the last half a century and don't have to worry about that
 

sqwarlock

Member
They saw the party being mired too often in political correctness, transgender bathroom issues and policies offering more help to undocumented immigrants than to the heartland.

Yeah, how dare we care about way we treat each other!

I'm not going to stop caring about equality and other social issues to appease the conservative base of this country. Sorry.
 
Yeah Obama being the radical socialist he was really skewed the party.

The hell am I reading?

The written ejaculation of a man who wanted Hillary to focus on how Obama wasn't even a real American because of his heritage:

“[H]is roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited,” Penn wrote. “I cannot imagine electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.”
 
Central to the Democrats’ diminishment has been their loss of support among working-class voters

Yet another article ignoring the fact that the non-white working class supported the Democrats.

And to be frank, any voter who sees the Democrats as being hung up on letting trans people use the right bathrooms is a fucking moron because it's the Republicans who keep making it such an issue that they're willing to suffer economically for it.

Also, backing the police whenever they get away with killing a black person (especially celebrating it the way the Republicans did at the RNC) is not going to be worth the few white voters it would earn.
 
dRydgLS.jpg
 
This was co-written by a former Bill Clinton Staffer. Clearly Democrats are not connecting with the populace. We're getting killed in Governorships, Legislatures, Congress, and SCOTUS.

The biggest reason we're losing in many of those races (especially things like state legislature) is that we're really not paying attention to them, and Republicans are (and are putting money where their mouth is). Not because our message is off.

And "getting killed in the SCOTUS" is literally just about having lost this presidential election (and two senate seats).
 
Depends on location I think. The south is incredibly conservative, extreme left policies will likely not succeed there at all.
 

entremet

Member
LOL.

I just googled him and saw this take by Paste Magazine:


The Democratic party has held the House for four of the last 23 years and the Senate for 12 of those 23. While Democratic presidential candidates have won strict majorities for seven of the last eight contests, they've missed the White House on two of those occasions due to sloppy, awful campaigns.

Now, one of the failed architects of the political ideology—the kind of man that got the party to where it is today—has a lecture to give to the masses.

Mark Penn's op-ed, ”Back to the Center, Democrats," was published on Thursday in The New York Times. It was written with Trump supporter Andrew Stein. In the piece, Penn and Stein exhort Democrats to tilt to the right in order to start winning elections—as if that's not what put them in this hole to begin with.

Much has already been written about Penn's piece.

”Don't listen to Mark Penn" reads Sarah Jones' piece in The New Republic. ”Mark Penn's Bad Column Also Makes No Goddamn Sense" says Alex Pareene at Fusion. ”Clinton Strategist Mark Penn Pushes Democrats to Move to Center — And Quietly Profits From GOP Victories" reports Lee Fang at The Intercept.

They're right. Penn has no right to talk to the audience of the Times—or anyone, really—about anything related to politics. The reason for his total lack of credibility dates back to 2008.

The biggest reason we're losing in many of those races (especially things like state legislature) is that we're really not paying attention to them, and Republicans are (and are putting money where their mouth is). Not because our message is off.

And "getting killed in the SCOTUS" is literally just about having lost this presidential election (and two senate seats).
Oh I wasn't agreeing with the piece. But it's been getting a lot of play in the internet of late. See above.
 
Easily lost in today’s divided politics is that only a little more than a quarter of Americans consider themselves liberals, while almost three in four are self-identified moderates or conservatives.

Anyone know the source of this or just tales from my ass?
 
Unless Democrats can prove (or at least sell) the idea that liberal plans/programs/budgets will generate more jobs and household wealth for the Middle Class than Trump and the GoP's can, they'll lose.

Plain as that.

They don't have to sell that to liberals, by the way. They need to sell that to the undecideds and independents.
 
This dumb fuck is wrong just like every dumb fuck who believes Dems have to throw minorities under the bus in order to win. He talks like the bathroom bill as if it wasnt a massively important battleground for trans rights in this country. It's not just about political correctness dude it's about basic human rights.
 
The biggest problem in 2016 was an extremely divisive presidential candidate, gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the influx of propaganda and hacking, not left wing politics.
 
Mark Penn's company worked for the Republicans to defeat Ossoff in the recent special election and Andrew Stein dated Ann Coulter.

Let's not listen to them.
 

FoneBone

Member
I was relieved to see the stupidity of this piece unifying Sanders and Clinton partisans. Mark Penn's general incompetence transcends ideological boundaries!
 

RDreamer

Member
I think this is a pretty dumb take. Sanders is one of the most popular politicians in the country, and while I really don't take that to mean people would actually like to implement his policies it at least somewhat shows the policies of the left aren't anathema to voters and probably aren't a large cause of the losses throughout the last few years.

Most of the losses have been structural issues. Democrats suffered a big defeat in 2010 in combination because the outside party always has a bit of a surge and because, for Democrat voters, there was also a bit of a backlash of Obamacare not being quite far left enough. Since that time there have been quite a few elections where Democrats should have won a lot more, even a majority but couldn't because of the redistricting and gerrymandering brought about in 2010.

On top of that, Obama was painfully centrist. Hillary Clinton was a centrist. The right still somehow were able to paint them as liberal communist socialist nutcase. It really doesn't matter whether Democrats go really left or not, that's still going to be the accusation anyway and a lot of voters will believe it regardless. Because of this, they should go for the policies that are good for people regardless of where it falls on that spectrum.

I also love this attack on "identity politics" and it really makes me rage. Hillary barely fucking focused on it at all. It pisses me the fuck off that we just spent almost an entire election cycle not talking about the plight of people of color in our country and even that was too much? Fuck off. We barely debated it at all.

And transgender bathrooms weren't even remotely a key point in most elections around the country and the election it was a key point in? Well... a Democrat won.
 
That's idiotic. The right dominated the last election cycle because they veered farther right, and the left got crushed because they offered too much compromise.

This division is only going to grow but we've made it necessary. It's all or nothing now.
 

entremet

Member
I think this is a pretty dumb take. Sanders is one of the most popular politicians in the country, and while I really don't take that to mean people would actually like to implement his policies it at least somewhat shows the policies of the left aren't anathema to voters and probably aren't a large cause of the losses throughout the last few years.

Most of the losses have been structural issues. Democrats suffered a big defeat in 2010 in combination because the outside party always has a bit of a surge and because, for Democrat voters, there was also a bit of a backlash of Obamacare not being quite far left enough. Since that time there have been quite a few elections where Democrats should have won a lot more, even a majority but couldn't because of the redistricting and gerrymandering brought about in 2010.

On top of that, Obama was painfully centrist. Hillary Clinton was a centrist. The right still somehow were able to paint them as liberal communist socialist nutcase. It really doesn't matter whether Democrats go really left or not, that's still going to be the accusation anyway and a lot of voters will believe it regardless. Because of this, they should go for the policies that are good for people regardless of where it falls on that spectrum.

I also love this attack on "identity politics" and it really makes me rage. Hillary barely fucking focused on it at all. It pisses me the fuck off that we just spent almost an entire election cycle not talking about the plight of people of color in our country and even that was too much? Fuck off. We barely debated it at all.

And transgender bathrooms weren't even remotely a key point in most elections around the country and the election it was a key point in? Well... a Democrat won.

Yeah, I would agree that Sanders would've beat Trump (opens that can of worms again) and that is because he was unabashedly to the left of Hillary as well.
 

Saganator

Member
Fuck that. I'm not going to budge on my beliefs because the right decided to go even further right. GOP needs to go back to pretending to care about people and the country more than their donors and radical base.

Furthermore, I believe if districts weren't gerrymandered to hell and back, Dems would have much better representation in local government.
 
And yet Jeremy Corbyn who is arguably much left of Bernie even is very likely to be the UK's next prime minister. Just give until the Brexit pull out is completely bungled by May. And to people saying the US not as politically left wing as the UK, that is true, but only a recent development. Look at Eugene Debs or the populist trust busting era.
 

Kettch

Member
Republicans have fallen off a cliff to the right and they now control the entire government.

Why the fuck do democrats need to go to the center? Progressive policies are actually good for people, just message better and you're fine.

The plan shouldn't be to find a position that won't be attacked, because any position will be attacked. Plan to withstand attacks instead. Policy isn't the democrats problem.
 
Isn't the far left supposed to be the group whining about "identity politics"? lol

Not exclusively, no. While people in the far left like Bernie have come out against it, there are people closer to the center who have as well. There are also people in the far left and center who still support it.

Which is to say that throwing minorities under the bus isn't a far left or center left thing, it's a cowardly thing mostly being done by white people.
 
Yes, Sanders lost... Which means the democrats already did go to the center.

Clinton had the most left leaning platform of any Democrat before her running for President IIRC and Sanders running forced her to move it further left. This idea that Democrats are moving closer to the center is unfounded
 
I think that was a conflict regarding the "Bernie Bros", that they criticized identity politics, but I saw that being a bigger thing with centrists.

Sanders himself came out and criticized identity politics a couple of weeks after the election. Both the left and "centrist" wings of the Democratic party have people that attack identity politics, though from different angles, though essentially the implication is the same ("We should target more white voters because minorities will vote for us regardless")
 
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