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Back to the Center, Democrats (NYT Op-ed)
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But... that's not what happened, at least in the last presidential campaign. Clinton ignored "safe" areas and put in more time in long shot states. Choosing any one factor that caused her to lose is a fool's errand, but that did not help, at all.
Again, all the money they funneled into a special election didn't move the needle for Ossoff. There's a fundamental issue that Dems don't turn out for local, state, or off-election year races. Until you figure out how to solve that enthusiasm gap besides "have someone like Obama every time", I don't see Dems taking back statehouses.
2017. Where free trade is evil. At least you agree with Trump on that?
The United States is one of the most socially progressive countries in the world. The American left is really good at influencing society through culture and media, as an example I'd present the rapid progress on gay issues. They just really suck at politics.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This piece is dumb for a variety of reasons
[citation needed]
Especially given that we are far more heterogenous than most western countries, the amount of progress we've made is great and all, but I dunno how you can say we're one of the most socially progressive when socially progressive laws don't really get passed.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I don't see the logic. It's not just that Republicans are dissatisfied with Democrat policies, they actively vote against Democrats. Democrats today are synonymous with taking away guns, hating white cishet men, and killing babies. In a fight between a Democrat and a man who bodyslammed a reporter, the person charged with a crime won. Criminals are preferable to Democrats (though in the minds of Republicans, they are criminals themselves). Is it worth ensuring that young people grow up and don't replace the older Democrats because why bother voting for someone that doesn't represent your generation?
TetraGenesis
Member
Bombsfall had a great tweet about this that I just can't find where he says something to the effect of, "Yeah, time to move back to the center from the Right."
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Countries that had quicker progress on the issue you chose to best represent the US's progressivity:
Netherlands
Belgium
Spain
Canada
South Africa
Norway
Sweden
Portugal
Iceland
Argentina
Denmark
Brazil
France
Uruguay
New Zealand
Luxembourg
This is a list of mostly Western European countries. There's a lot more to the world than the developed world.
Who do you think the Homo Empire is?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
If the point is "The US is an OECD country", then yes, it is. But I don't think that's controversial. Implicit in the statement being interesting is that you're comparing the US to its peers, not pointing out that the US is ahead of Bhutan and Liberia.
Yeah, 2017. Where apparently people don't know what free trade is and all the fucking damage it's done. But I'm just like Trump because I hate it. Fuck outta here with that.
On cue I watched explain some issues Democrats have with 2020 and I absolutely agree with him. It was interesting seeing Michael Steele on because after the 2008 Obama election it was really doom and gloom for Republicans. He has since left the party, but I remember listening to talk radio when he was head of the RNC on Hannity and them essentially talking about "how can we save the Republican party" etc.
I remember hearing from the Right and Left on how it would be impossible for the Republicans to bridge differences between the religious arm of the party, the fiscally conservative arm of the party along with the Libertarian part of the party, yet here we are with President Donald Trump.
As of right now there is no candidate that the Democrats have that can beat Donald Trump in 2020. Despite being an atrocious President, the 50-55% of the country that voted for him isn't going anywhere and they seem only emboldened.
Like Bill Maher pointed out everyone seems to be waiting for Mueller to save the day and save for a Watergate style investigation (which I'm holding out hope for), Trump is beating them in every imaginable way and dictating the course of discussion. And again like Bill Maher pointed out, Trump hasn't even played his "war card" yet which is something that is very troubling.
I don't know what the answer is for the left and Democrats but we have to get our shit together. The fact that Nancy fucking Pelosi is one of the faces of the party in 2017 should tell you all you need to know about the state of the party.
At the end of the day despite the divide between religious and fiscal conservatives it was always going to be easier for Republicans to rally uneducated voters on racist fear-mongering like they have done with Breitbart, FoxNews, talk radio, Drudge, Alex Jones etc. It's pretty depressing but just remember the Republicans were on the ropes after 2008 and I'm holding out hope for the natural cyclical course of politics to take course with Democrats starting to turn the tide in 2018. *Sigh*
I remember hearing from the Right and Left on how it would be impossible for the Republicans to bridge differences between the religious arm of the party, the fiscally conservative arm of the party along with the Libertarian part of the party, yet here we are with President Donald Trump.
As of right now there is no candidate that the Democrats have that can beat Donald Trump in 2020. Despite being an atrocious President, the 50-55% of the country that voted for him isn't going anywhere and they seem only emboldened.
Like Bill Maher pointed out everyone seems to be waiting for Mueller to save the day and save for a Watergate style investigation (which I'm holding out hope for), Trump is beating them in every imaginable way and dictating the course of discussion. And again like Bill Maher pointed out, Trump hasn't even played his "war card" yet which is something that is very troubling.
I don't know what the answer is for the left and Democrats but we have to get our shit together. The fact that Nancy fucking Pelosi is one of the faces of the party in 2017 should tell you all you need to know about the state of the party.
At the end of the day despite the divide between religious and fiscal conservatives it was always going to be easier for Republicans to rally uneducated voters on racist fear-mongering like they have done with Breitbart, FoxNews, talk radio, Drudge, Alex Jones etc. It's pretty depressing but just remember the Republicans were on the ropes after 2008 and I'm holding out hope for the natural cyclical course of politics to take course with Democrats starting to turn the tide in 2018. *Sigh*
The US also being very influential among it's peers. I think it'd be fair to say that Hollywood has been an important part of changing attitudes about homosexuality. Yet somehow the same country so influential in pushing gays rights was a bit slow in actually doing it politically.
I suppose what I'd want to see to test this theory would be a chart showing how attitudes towards homosexuality changed over time in various countries and when legalization of gay marriage was achieved.
old manatee
Banned
It's like the Republicans and trickle down economics: it doesn't matter how many times it fails, the next time it's bound to work by golly.
You're a fool if you think the right is united. In it's hatred of the left, sure, but only in that aspect.
Angelus Errare
Banned
A Mark Penn article, so I can basically sum it up as "Democrats need to move to the right because REAL Americans (white folks) like myself aren't a fan of not being the center of attention, oh and did I mention Obama isn't a REAL American?
Someone posted an image that showed a line scale showing "left" and "right" and the idea of compromise and it basically showed the left continuing to compromise and move right while the right never budged. I wish I had it.
The right is so united they can't even agree on appealing Obamacare.
Someone posted an image that showed a line scale showing "left" and "right" and the idea of compromise and it basically showed the left continuing to compromise and move right while the right never budged. I wish I had it.
The right is so united they can't even agree on appealing Obamacare.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I'm glad to see hating Penn unite everyone here.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The Democrats are centre right here in Europe
Jmanunknown
Member
Instead of concentrating on where to move more to the center or farther left Democrats should be looking at how to get the 46.9 percent of eligible voters who either could not or choose not to vote involved more in the political process either by making voting easier and more accessible or engaging and seeing why the people who choose not to vote did and show them the importance of voting and not voting.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
2020 is still ages away but I'm going to laugh if we run with a similar catch all center left candidate.
They were united enough to vote for Donald Trump in the Presidential election in states that should have been Democratic strongholds like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio. Even if it's in the hatred for the left+Obama, they're still united on something.
The RNC has brilliantly played into the fears of the religious right, chickenhawk right, libertarian right etc. with different media outlets tailored to their own beliefs. Just look at how Breitbart has formed since the start of 2008, how Alex Jones/Infowars became a credible enough voice for Donald Trump to go on his show. All these factions of the Republican party came out and voted enthusiastically for Trump.
I suspect most of it was (racist and irrational) disdain for Obama but it was enough to get Donald Trump elected.
Also a lot of Republican success in the Senate/Congressional elections in 2016 can be directly attributed to gerrymandering so I think that is almost issue #1 the Democratic party has to try to solve.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...mocrats-won-popular-vote-senate-too/93598998/
Things change quickly though and we'll see where this Presidency is in one year.
old manatee
Banned
Maybe we should run John Kerry again.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Now, this man gets it. This post should be stickied.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
That's literally the worst thing Democrats could do right now. Defining your position by comparing yourself to literal fascists isn't helping anyone. Nobody needs a coward.
Every fucking time, without fail.
It really doesn't reflect well on us Europeans when we come into threads, with no understanding of context, political environment or basic policy platforms and say this. It is factually *wrong*. The democrats are far further left than the Conservative party of Great Britain, the republicans of France, the right wing in Spain and on most issues the CDU in Germany.
Stop mistaking a party that's trying to move a very right wing country leftwards in steps for being rightwing. It's nonsense.
Ron Mexico
Member
It was mentioned elsewhere, but I'd start by building more at the lower levels of government, which both reinforces the bench and gets at the "Dems fall in love, GOP falls in line".
Creating a consistent brand of embracing the entire left of the spectrum. The center-left and those further to the left can then focus on what they agree on rather than re-litigating the '16 primaries.
Even reading some of the slightly lower profile political races (NJ Governor race I'm looking at you), it's disheartening to see how much is taken for granted. And still, I'd focus my efforts even lower than that. Down to the county. To the municipality. You then raise awareness, activity and ultimately engagement leading to turnout.
Instead we just focus on the bigger, more newsworthy, more finger-pointing worthy and watch as the wheels spin over and over going nowhere.
Creating a consistent brand of embracing the entire left of the spectrum. The center-left and those further to the left can then focus on what they agree on rather than re-litigating the '16 primaries.
Even reading some of the slightly lower profile political races (NJ Governor race I'm looking at you), it's disheartening to see how much is taken for granted. And still, I'd focus my efforts even lower than that. Down to the county. To the municipality. You then raise awareness, activity and ultimately engagement leading to turnout.
Instead we just focus on the bigger, more newsworthy, more finger-pointing worthy and watch as the wheels spin over and over going nowhere.
Arguably it didn't do Dems any favor in voter turnout.
Latino turnout held steady, overall minority percentage held steady, black voter turnout down 7% total, black Millennials only Millennial group to decrease (overall Millennial & Gen X turnout up).
I don't think a step back toward center for Democrats is a terrible idea. Calling that "Republican-lite" is laughable. Coming back toward the center doesn't have to mean abandoning gay rights, a path to citizenship, or no longer being critical of police racial policies. I would argue those are all centrist ideals these days.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It's as simple as that.
Maybe there was a time when swing voters were more important than turning out the base, but in a political environment as split this, there's no way that's true anymore.
This article is total garbage, which is expected, considering the source.
So our answer to crazy income inequality and economic desperation in the middle- and working-classes should be "renewed growth" aka tax cuts for the rich and expanded corporate welfare? Fuck that.
As far as abandoning identity politics, we've had big wins from the left on LGBT rights in the last decade, and while we haven't gotten criminal justice reform, at least we were able to bring the discussion of race and policing to the forefront. However, social justice isn't just about victories. Ultimately if the Democratic Party isn't willing to stand up and fight to protect vulnerable members of American society, then it isn't worth saving.
There wasn't anything wrong with Clinton's policy positions in the 2016 race. She ran on a great platform that should have been a big winner. It's just that she was the wrong salesman for those policies. We can and will do better in picking a candidate in 2020.
So our answer to crazy income inequality and economic desperation in the middle- and working-classes should be "renewed growth" aka tax cuts for the rich and expanded corporate welfare? Fuck that.
As far as abandoning identity politics, we've had big wins from the left on LGBT rights in the last decade, and while we haven't gotten criminal justice reform, at least we were able to bring the discussion of race and policing to the forefront. However, social justice isn't just about victories. Ultimately if the Democratic Party isn't willing to stand up and fight to protect vulnerable members of American society, then it isn't worth saving.
There wasn't anything wrong with Clinton's policy positions in the 2016 race. She ran on a great platform that should have been a big winner. It's just that she was the wrong salesman for those policies. We can and will do better in picking a candidate in 2020.
This is a list of mostly Western European countries. There's a lot more to the world than the developed world.
Who do you think the Homo Empire is?
America, where you don't look up to those who are better than you, but rather keep comparing yourself with those lagging behind you.
"So honey, what did you get on the English test?"
I got a C+ mom!
"Huh, Julie tells me her son got an A-. I really wish you'd apply yourself like Eric does."
But mom, I'm doing so much better than the ESL kid, isn't that enough?!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Moving the center would actually mean moving to the left for the Democrats.
ElectricThunder
Member
Well, there was Gravel and Kucinich back in 2008 vs The Big Show that was Clinton/Obama/Edwards---as somebody that paid extra close attention back then it is pretty damn surreal to see how differently the fate of Sanders played out, even if in absolute terms the Center held just as it did then despite him gaining* much more ground vs the prior 2 essentially getting smothered like a fire at a quilt factory early on by the party/media/etc as the narratives were chomping at the bit after Bush especially without the true advent of social media that Obama ultimately managed to grasp the tip of alongside the rest and Edwards tremendous fall from the stage.
It all comes down to Resources of all sorts, Apparatus, and finally Votes----so any surprise folk come 18/20 are going to be in for a rough ride as you can only take away so much from any prior contest in a vacuum as each has surely only made running the gauntlet that much more perilous and inclined to tighten the reins.
50% of the country didn't vote for Trump. Less than 25% of the population voted for Trump. And this is way too early a statement to make for 2020. We have no idea what the next few years will bring, or who will potentially rise in the political world, and Trump barely won the Presidency to begin with.
The 'war card' isn't going to do shit for Trump. His hardcore supporters are isolationists and don't want a war, and the general population don't want a war, either. Remember that little bombing show he did in Syria? Didn't move the needle, and he got criticized a lot from far right supporters who were disappointed in any sign of foreign intervention.
I know, but Bush, you'll say. But the situations surrounding Bush and Trump are totally different. People remember the amount of hate and mocking Bush got at the end of his Presidency, they tend to forget he wasn't like that throughout his entire Presidency.
And he's winning in every possible way imaginable? He's done nothing outside rollback Obama era regulations, and gotten a partial part of his Muslim ban temporarily through (I'm fairly confident it will be knocked down, too, once it goes to the SC, but we'll see). He's yet to have a major legislative victory half a year into his Presidency, and even if they manage to push through healthcare, he's shown himself to be pretty ineffective in actual dealmaking, it'll all be Ryan, McConnell and the Whips, and everyone in Congress knows that, making Trump a lame duck with a rubber stamp.
Lordy, you've drunk some of that right-wing kool-aid. But a lot on the left have, though.
What world are you living on?
Fucking hell with this bullshit.
Name a "right of center" policy the Democrats hold.
AuthenticM
Member
they already are in the fucking center and that is why they lost
It should tell you the party believes in getting shit done and keeping the people who are goddamned good at their jobs at the top level?
Seriously, what's your beef with Nancy Pelosi. She pretty much wrangled cats and got the ACA accomplished.
They're saying they need to be even more center-right than they already are. Ie: drop minorities. And copy right wing economics that doom the poor and middle class. Which they did for decades already. This is disgusting on all grounds. Despise centrism and how often they propose this nonsense. They're the weak link in the party. About time they faced it.
Sorry if double,on mobile.
Mark Penn is saying this.
The center left and far left both despise Mark Penn.
He is not relevant.
She's the newest (kind of also oldest) boogeyman for the right, and we must exile anyone who is a boogeyman for the right, so that only old white men remain.
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