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Balance between Christian Values of Pro-Life and Abstinence

R

ryseing

Member
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/us/teen-pregnancy-religious-values-christian-school.html?_r=0

She has a 4.0 average at Heritage Academy, the small private Christian school she attends; played on the soccer team; and served as president of the student council. But when her fellow seniors don blue caps and gowns at graduation early next month, Ms. Runkles, 18, will not be among them.

The reason? She is pregnant.

The decision by school officials to bar Ms. Runkles from “walking” at graduation — and to remove her from her student council position — would have remained private, but for her family’s decision to seek help from Students for Life. The anti-abortion group, which took her to a recent rally in Washington, argues that she should be lauded, not punished, for her decision to keep her baby.

“She made the courageous decision to choose life, and she definitely should not be shamed,” said Kristan Hawkins, the Students for Life president, who tried unsuccessfully to persuade the administrator of Heritage Academy to reverse the decision. “There has got to be a way to treat a young woman who becomes pregnant in a graceful and loving way.”

David Hobbs, the administrator at Heritage Academy, a nondenominational independent school in Hagerstown, Md., where students take daily Bible classes, declined to discuss Ms. Runkles. In a written statement issued on behalf of the school’s board of directors, he said she would earn a diploma, and called her pregnancy “an internal issue about which much prayer and discussion has taken place.”
Continue reading the main story

Ms. Runkles’s story sheds light on a delicate issue: how Christian schools, which advocate abstinence until marriage, treat pregnant teenagers.

“You have these two competing values,” said Brad Wilcox, a sociologist at the University of Virginia who directs the National Marriage Project, which conducts research on marriage and families. “On the one hand, the school is seeking to maintain some kind of commitment to what has classically been called chastity — or today might be called abstinence. At the same time, there’s an expectation in many Christian circles that we are doing all that we can to honor life.”
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Found this piece randomly earlier and thought it was quite interesting. I went to a Christian high school and knew a few girls who were expelled for becoming pregnant and keeping the baby even though they could have gotten an abortion with nobody being the wiser. I've always found this dichotomy quite interesting. Abstinence only sex ed doesn't work y'all.

Also, the girl was planning on going to Bob Jones University before she became pregnant. If you know anything about that place (several of my HS teachers were graduates) it adds a new level of irony to this piece.
 
P

Pau

Member
At the end of the day a lot of Christians see pregnancy and sex before marriage something to be punished. Doesn't matter if you keep the pregnancy or not.

The all girls Catholic school I went to expelled you if you got an abortion or married the father. If you kept the baby and didn't get married you were allowed to stay and walk for graduation. Still fucked up.
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
It's of a particular evil that an institution should deign itself competent and rightful enough to decide what behaviours people should have and to figuratively, if not literally, expel those who by circumstance of their life and desires have a momentary lapse.

And it speaks to how much they value women's personhood.
 
Y

yanipheonu

Member
I had such an atypical Catholic School experience. They were really upfront, "listen, try not to have sex until you're ready. If not, at least wear a condom and watch out for STIs."

The texts we had were surprisingly decent too, stressing that sex doesn't have to be the end all for a relationship, or just some coming of age thing to get out of the way.

But yeah most Catholic Schools take it too far it seems.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Pau said:
At the end of the day a lot of Christians see pregnancy and sex before marriage something to be punished. Doesn't matter if you keep the pregnancy or not.

The all girls Catholic school I went to expelled you if you got an abortion or married the father. If you kept the baby and didn't get married you were allowed to stay and walk for graduation. Still fucked up.
Click to expand...

wait why would you get expelled for marrying the father?
 
M

Maledict

Member
yanipheonu said:
I had such an atypical Catholic School experience. They were really upfront, "listen, try not to have sex until you're ready. If not, at least wear a condom and watch out for STIs."

The texts we had were surprisingly decent too, stressing that sex doesn't have to be the end all for a relationship, or just some coming of age thing to get out of the way.

But yeah most Catholic Schools take it too far it seems.
Click to expand...

This wasn't a catholic school in the article. Despite the popes regulations, western Catholics are a lot more relaxed on these issues that Protestant evangelicals.

(Or rather, Catholics have improved in recent years - the memories of what they did in Ireland are still fresh).
 
P

PlayALLtheGames

Banned
"Pro life" as a term needs to die. And a lot of Christians support expanded capital punishment. They are not pro life and they do not get to associate that term with their absurd, childish worldview.
 
J

Jakoo

Member
Earthbound64 said:
The male who contributed to the happening should be held to the same standard as the female, yes.
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It says in the article the father didn't go to the school, but yes, it would be interesting to see if the level of ostracism would cut both ways if so.
It wouldn't.
 
C

Chumly

Member
When my mom grew up her rural school "expelled" pregnant women. This was a public school. Thank god that isn't allowed anymore
 
L

Linkark07

Banned
Graduated from a Catholic School. While we were in school, as far as memory goes, only one had a child, and she was 14 years old back then. On top of that, she got pregnant next year after she left said school.

None of my companions had any children when they graduated. But, a year later or two, almost like one third of my promotion got pregnant, while being in college. Most of them abandoned their studies and seem to be fine raising their child and having a low pay job.

If they took abortion into discussion, I don't have the slightest idea. While abortion is forbidden in my country by the laws, there are many clinics out there who help women abort the fetus.
 
C

Calion

Member
Slightly more than half of women who have abortions — 54 percent — identify as Christians, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization that tracks abortion policy.

Among them is Jessica Klick, 40, the athletic director at Heritage Academy, who has been serving as a mentor to Ms. Runkles. Ms. Klick had two abortions, one when she was 20 and the second at 21, after becoming pregnant by a man she later married.

Ms. Klick, who has two sons with her husband, said she had spoken openly of her past to Heritage Academy students. She said she had felt pushed into terminating her pregnancies by her own strict religious upbringing. She was terrified of what her parents would think. When she called a clinic for an appointment, she gave a phony name.

“I went into an abortion clinic knowing I shouldn’t, and God was the last thing on my mind,” she said.
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Oh.
 
R

ryseing

Member
Maledict said:
This wasn't a catholic school in the article. Despite the popes regulations, western Catholics are a lot more relaxed on these issues that Protestant evangelicals.
Click to expand...

Ding ding. My HS was Evangelical as well. I've found there's a warped view of sex in that culture. Look up purity balls. It's some creepy shit.

And yes, guys who committed similar "offenses" were treated differently than girls.
 
E

Earthbound64

Banned
Angelus Errare said:
They rare if ever are. The amount of these kind of stories in which the girls get punished and the dude gets high fives and fist bumps are numerous.
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Even if he doesn't go to the school, feels like he should bare some responsibility for how it affects her life.
But, as noted, I'm sure that won't happen.
 
A

Affeinvasion

Member
I'm pretty sure my university had a pregnant student exchange program with other universities so that you could continue your coursework while not being ostracized by your original university community...which sounds like a nice service on the surface level but is absolutely horrifying when you consider that it was ever considered necessary in the first place.

The most insidious thing about abstinence education is that from a logical perspective, abstinence by its definition is objectively the "best" form of birth control. It just doesn't make any sense to apply it humans who are in the midst of their most formative and "trial by mistake" years (or frankly any humans).

Abstinence education also does a horrible job of helping people who have much different life experiences and body chemistries set boundaries for themselves and between partners.

I grew up in the Catholic Church and still consider myself to be Catholic. I expected and received abstinence education through youth group, etc. I also had to sit through abstinence education (it was the same fucking guy too) in my public high school. My wife and I both chose to forgo intercourse until we were married, which is not a choice I would condone for every couple. The important thing is that we talked about this kind of stuff beforehand and at the very least had our own ideas of boundaries that we didn't want to cross. This came entirely down to our upbringing and had nothing to do with the messages that abstinence education provided.

Now the biggest problem: All sex education decries pregnancy. The overall end goal of both abstinence education and safe sex training is to reduce teenage pregnancy. While that goal is worthwhile, the lack of support for young pregnant women is horrifyingly bad.
 
nekkid

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I feel like I'm in the minority amongst my peers, but man, I just can't wrap my head around abortion. I'd never seek to vilify anyone who chooses it - is their decision - but the idea of it just makes me really uncomfortable.

Raised Christian, but consider myself pretty liberal. This was never something that I was told was explicitly evil or anything - it's just my own feeling.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
Went to a private Christian HS.

The best bball player at our school banged a chick (freshman at the time), she was a senior.

She lost her spot on the team, lost her homecoming queen crown, and got shat on by her social circle.

The dude? I'll let you guys guess.
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
nekkid said:
I feel like I'm in the minority amongst my peers, but man, I just can't wrap my head around abortion. I'd never seek to vilify anyone who chooses it - is their decision - but the idea of it just makes me really uncomfortable.

Raised Christian, but consider myself pretty liberal. This was never something that I was told was explicitly evil or anything - it's just my own feeling.
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That's a perfectly fine stance. I don't think anyone will begrudge you that. The problem is when people start trying to regulate what other women do for them.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
Religious beliefs aside, her being shamed into it out of an abortion is an incredibly fucked up concept that goes above and beyond whatever dogmatic principles her elders are trying to hold her to. It really does seem like a move to exert dominance and control over her bodily autonomy than some sort of moral statement.

It's contradictory as well, this is the type of unrealistic thinking that leads to increased pregnancy termination that we've seen in statistics. Safe sex saves lives and it's just a bad move long term on the part of the school.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
In their mind you sinned for getting pregnant outside of marriage, they're not going to reward you for not sinning again (e.g., not getting an abortion).
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Earthbound64 said:
Even if he doesn't go to the school, feels like he should bare some responsibility for how it affects her life.
But, as noted, I'm sure that won't happen.
Click to expand...

He won't sadly. If men were held to the exact same standards (and punished) as women we wouldn't even have this archaic nonsensical "rule".
 
R

ReiGun

Member
yanipheonu said:
I had such an atypical Catholic School experience. They were really upfront, "listen, try not to have sex until you're ready. If not, at least wear a condom and watch out for STIs."

The texts we had were surprisingly decent too, stressing that sex doesn't have to be the end all for a relationship, or just some coming of age thing to get out of the way.

But yeah most Catholic Schools take it too far it seems.
Click to expand...

Didn't attend Catholic school, but that was my experience as well. It actually blew my mind when I realized how many school still pushed abstinence only education.
 
K

Kettch

Member
I wonder if they bothered asking her how she got pregnant. That's not always the result of a "sin" after all.

"So, we need you to tell us if your pregnancy was the result of a sinful sexual encounter or a traumatic rape, this will determine whether you can attend graduation or not."
 
V

Vegetable Lasagna

Member
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Also, we care about all life until it is born and then it can rot and fend for itself, because we don't like big government (unless it suits our agenda) nor taxes. Deal with it.
 
M

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Aurongel said:
Religious beliefs aside, her being shamed into it out of an abortion is an incredibly fucked up concept that goes above and beyond whatever dogmatic principles her elders are trying to hold her to. It really does seem like a move to exert dominance and control over her bodily autonomy than some sort of moral statement.

It's contradictory as well, this is the type of unrealistic thinking that leads to increased pregnancy termination that we've seen in statistics. Safe sex saves lives and it's just a bad move long term on the part of the school.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Shaming someone into any decision can usually be frowned upon.

I've also noticed a sad anti-pregnancy and anti-kids sentiment among my generation and I find it pretty interesting if not a little strange. I've known women who've gotten pregnant and made to feel like lepers for it, believe it or not. There's something to say about people who have a knee-jerk "Must abort!" reaction to any children/pregnancy news as well as those on the other side who scream for "preservation of life at every opportunity."

I'm rambling, and maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd, but I don't see the excitement for families and relationships like I was raised to believe.
 
Straight Edge

Straight Edge

Member
Kettch said:
I wonder if they bothered asking her how she got pregnant. That's not always the result of a "sin" after all.

"So, we need you to tell us if your pregnancy was the result of a sinful sexual encounter or a traumatic rape, this will determine whether you can attend graduation or not."
Click to expand...

I'm sure they would consider her being raped a sin since the female can just shut her body down.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
Went to Catholic school and we definitely had abstinence-only education ("condoms are unreliable and lead to terminal STDs so we're not going to waste our time describing how to use them" etc), but when a student would get pregnant, there were tons of hushed whispers but a public face of support from the administration. Teachers and the principal would ask how far along they were, get gifts for the baby, etc. Even had pictures of the babies in the yearbook.

Lots of topics, mainly regarding sex and gay students, were intentionally kept on the down-low. But you can't really hide a pregnant student. Expelling her would have caused an uproar among the other students, and scarlet-letter shaming her would have caused an uproar among the parents and administration. The prevailing attitude was to celebrate the decision to carry the child to term while intentionally ignoring the sex that led there in the first place.

I can't imagine an environment where someone is straight-up punished for being pregnant. I wonder what their stance would be if she were not pregnant by choice.
 
P

Parmadillo Marshmallow

Member
Jakoo said:
It says in the article the father didn't go to the school, but yes, it would be interesting to see if the level of ostracism would cut both ways if so.
It wouldn't.
Click to expand...

This exact thing happened to someone I know who worked at an evangelical Christian University. Woman became pregnant out of wedlock by a co-worker. Woman got fired, man kept his job. Legally the University prevailed because the woman signed a covenant that included a provision stating that women who become pregnant out of wedlock would be fired. No such provision pertaining to men. What a bunch of BS.
 
O

Occam

Member
It's not "pro life". It's pro repression. Pro control. Anti freedom. Anti rationality.

Humans have urges. To deny them is to be a hypocrite. Abstinence is nonsense.
 
Mexen

Mexen

Member
Get a girl pregnant here, you'll pay at least $3500 in damages, parents can charge way more than that. Let me put it in perspective, $1 dollar here can buy you a $30 Italian meal. Jokes aside, my currency is weak af against the almighty USD so three grand is arara'munny, mayne. Oh, if she's in college, that's on you too. If she works, she'll move in with you and everything is on you.
 
Y

yyr

Member
ReiGun said:
It actually blew my mind when I realized how many school still pushed abstinence only education.
Click to expand...

I think this is the root of the problem: that so many parents and school boards believe that "abstinence-only education" is in any way beneficial to anybody.

I grew up in Mahopac, NY, which is about an hour north of NYC. The majority of the population is of Italian and Irish origin, so there are many Catholics, and the school district has an abstinence-only focus. But as teenagers, we ALL knew that it didn't work, that it was hypocritical bullshit, and that it wasn't the best way.

Some teens are going to have sex. That's just the way things work, when nature is constantly shouting at you to do so. Why shouldn't we educate them, give them the tools they need to protect themselves? Education is empowering, not burying your head in the sand and pretending like it isn't a thing. Sigh.
 
N

Not

Banned
What, are you telling me religious people have contradictory beliefs and have become so proficient at mental gymnastics it's practically a second language whaaaat
 
M

Muppet of a Man

Member
Women are broodmares of the faithful, according to fundamentalists everywhere.

They are to be seen as chaste virgins prior to marriage. They are to barefoot and pregnant after. They are only to speak when spoken to. Welcome to religious hegemony.
 
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