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[Sapphire Dreams]

Off with my head if old.

After a recent spate of killings of members of religious minorities by Islamic extremists, the supreme court of Bangladesh has begun hearing arguments challenging Islam’s privileged status as official state religion, a measure applauded by religious liberty activists and minority leaders.

On February 29, Bangladesh’s Supreme Court officially began hearing arguments on the petition disputing the constitutionality of the adoption of Islam as the state religion.

Bangladesh’s original constitution, adopted soon after the nation split from Pakistan in 1971, declared the country to be a secular state.

It was the military ruler H. M. Ershard who decreed Islam to be the state religion in 1988, inserting an eighth amendment to the constitution to that effect. The legality of that move is what is now being disputed.

Religious minority leaders have commended the high court’s move to reexamine the state religion issue.

“When a state officially accepts a state religion, then it puts barricades for communal harmony because it recognizes supremacy of a particular religion and makes other religions inferior,” D’Cruze said, adding that recent extremist attacks on religious minorities are an indirect consequence of the adoption of a state religion.

“We hope and demand that every religion in Bangladesh are put on an equal footing in terms of status and respect,” he said.

Another religious leader, Govinda Chadra Pramanik, secretary of Bangladesh National Hindu Grand Alliance, said that by sponsoring Islam as the official religion, the state has created grounds for the persecution of minorities, especially Hindus.

Source

And another source

 

[BocoDragon]

Good. Theocracies are some of the worst institutions on the planet.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Good, secularism is best for everybody involved, religious or not.

 

[Kysen]

Good luck to anyone trying to get this into law. Didn't a few people get chopped in the street for daring to say anything negative against Islam?

 

[xptoxyz]

Good. Theocracies are some of the worst institutions on the planet.

While not secular they're not a theocracy either I'm pretty sure.

 

[EmSeta]

This might be a hard fight. Didn't the authorities basically turn a blind eye to those atheist bloggers who were hacked to death by extremists?

 

[Pizza con salsiccia]

While not secular they're not a theocracy either I'm pretty sure.

A lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between theocracy and state religion.
Not surprised that people in the OT would be confused.

Clearly not a secular society though, as you said.

 

[victreeb3l]

Breitbart and The Daily Caller? Really OP?

 

[dave is ok]

Breitbart and The Daily Caller? Really OP?

Asia Times and Daily Mail are running the same story.

 

[Amory]

That could be pretty dangerous for them.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Breitbart and The Daily Caller? Really OP?

Considering these sources are conservative, then there is some credibility to the story because of how they value tradition. Also , my main source was a Bengali friend of mine who told me the story, I found some sources telling the news and I wanted to share it

 

[FZZ]

Hope Pakistan goes through with it first, but chances for that are much lower...

 

[Xe4]

That could be pretty dangerous for them.

The path to a better world is paved with danger and the blood of those who wanted to do well, unfortunately. I do agree with you, though.

Good on Bangladesh in any case. A state religion has no place in any modern country.

 

[victreeb3l]

Considering these sources are conservative, there is some actually my main source was a Bengali friend of mine who told me the story, I found some sources telling the news and I wanted to share it.

Interesting. I'll check some Bangladeshi newspapers and see what they're saying.

I've always thought Bangladesh was a secular country. Feels like secularism and state religion make no sense together.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Hope Pakistan goes through the same. There were fucking protests today against Qadri's hanging. A guy who murdered the governor. Should tell us a lot.

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

I really dislike when people use the words like "Modern," because secularization is not "Modern" but a different cultural model. People in "Developed" countries are bounded by scientific thinking, as much as any religious country, because both science and religion are cultural. Sure the ideas of science are universal, but the terminology, and the way people interpret the scientific "facts." For example: Hand sanitizer does not actually help, but people are convinced that it is, because some scientist probably tested this out.

The problem with state and religion, is the state, not the religion. The idea of a state is capitalist and western centered idea, that why it does not work with a lot of cultures.

 

[orochi91]

From what I've read so far, they've been flip-flopping on this issue for years.

Also, with nearly ~90% of the population being Muslim, the likelihood of this passing are extremely low, lol

 

[AuthenticM]

I approve.

 

[ebullientprism]

Adopt cricket instead. Its more popular than anything else.

 

[SlimySnake]

Wow great job Bangladesh!

 

[nacimento]

As it should be, progress (hopefully) arriving.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Not sure this is a good idea tbh. I get the feeling this would embolden extremists if anything.

 

[NeOak]

I really dislike when people use the words like "Modern," because secularization is not "Modern" but a different cultural model. People in "Developed" countries are bounded by scientific thinking, as much as any religious country, because both science and religion are cultural. Sure the ideas of science are universal, but the terminology, and the way people interpret the scientific "facts." For example: Hand sanitizer does not actually help, but people are convinced that it is, because some scientist probably tested this out.

The problem with state and religion, is the state, not the religion. The idea of a state is capitalist and western centered idea, that why it does not work with a lot of cultures.

The main problem with religion is how people interpret it on their own. For example, giving money to a prosperity church doesn't get you money back, but some people are convinced that it does, because some preacher "tested" this out.

LOL at the rest though. Hard to argue with numbers, you know? And hand sanitizer is alcohol. Do you use alcohol to disinfect when you get a cut? Then why it doesn't "help"? "Help" to what? It's sold as a disinfectant, not as a hand condom.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Good luck, bros.

 

[2700]

As a Bengali, it has always been deeply disappointing how much religion still divides the Bengali race.

It was a mistake to abandon secularism in the first place. Unlike the partition, the Bangladeshi independence movement was based on Bengali nationalism and not religion. Bangladesh doesn't have Pakistan's problem, there aren't dozens of cultures, languages or ethnicities that need to be bound together by religion. Removing the separation of state and Islam so quickly has been disastrous; Hindus are fleeing to India, jamaat-e-islam are flourishing and politicians still to this day are divided over the issue.

Bangladeshis at some point will have to finally choose what they wish to be the basis for their laws, culture or religion.

 

[Valhelm]

Holy shit! Even if this is just a nominal change, that's absolutely incredible

 

[marrec]

State sponsored religions are shit good move

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

I had a Bangladeshi friend in China. Iranians called him Cos Padas or something. Meaning "Vagina worshiper". He was an extreme womanizer because that's all he would talk about. But he was also super into his religion (Islam). People are weird.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Also, with nearly ~90% of the population being Muslim, the likelihood of this passing are extremely low, lol

Bangladesh’s original constitution, adopted soon after the nation split from Pakistan in 1971, declared the country to be a secular state.

It was the military ruler H. M. Ershard who decreed Islam to be the state religion in 1988, inserting an eighth amendment to the constitution to that effect. The legality of that move is what is now being disputed.

.

 

[Stereogatari]

What is it with South Asian Muslim majority country military juntas and Islamification. I had no idea Bangladesh went through the same history as Pakistan on that front. They freed themselves only to repeat what they freed themselves from. Worst thing is these military guys are Secularised and Westernised. The fuck were they doing?

From what I've read so far, they've been flip-flopping on this issue for years.

Also, with nearly ~90% of the population being Muslim, the likelihood of this passing are extremely low, lol

90% Mulsim means nothing. That's just people who identify as Muslim regardless of individual practice. Turkey is 99% Muslim and has no Islamic laws.

 

[orochi91]

What is it with South Asian Muslim majority country military juntas and Islamification. I had no idea Bangladesh went through the same history as Pakistan on that front. They freed themselves only to repeat what they freed themselves from. Worst thing is these military guys are Secularised and Westernised. The fuck were they doing?


90% Mulsim means nothing. That's just people who identify as Muslim regardless of individual practice. Turkey is 99% Muslim and has no Islamic laws.

From what I've seen, Islamists are now far more entrenched in South Asian communities than they are in places like Turkey. The ship has sailed, with regards to peacefully detaching religion from the state at this point in these South Asian states; it would be pure chaos. Minorities would be intensely persecuted, as they would be held responsible by the extremists for the loss of that religion's state status.

That and the fact that Islamists have some weird relationship with the secular military entities in Pakistan and Bangladesh. It almost looks as if the military permits the existence and growth of Islamist communities there.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

I wholeheartedly support such a change.

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

The main problem with religion is how people interpret it on their own. For example, giving money to a prosperity church doesn't get you money back, but some people are convinced that it does, because some preacher "tested" this out.

LOL at the rest though. Hard to argue with numbers, you know? And hand sanitizer is alcohol. Do you use alcohol to disinfect when you get a cut? Then why it doesn't "help"? "Help" to what? It's sold as a disinfectant, not as a hand condom.

This is another problem with "Western" thought, the act of using Hand Sanitizer is symbolic rather than scientific, people do not know the scientific reason why they use Hand Sanitizer, they just know somehow it works (Even thought Hand Sanitizer is not that useful for people, and in the long term may hurt immunity).

And for you example, this is a "Western" phenomenon, its maybe a reaction to money in "Western" society. People who believe in that are not "Dumb" nor are their beliefs "Illogical"but giving money to receive money is a symbolic act in which reflects the American value "You have to spend money, to make money", and both acts are arbitrary. (Plus the people who are soliciting this are probably con artists).

What I'm trying to argue is that Religion and science (Secular) thought are equal, one is not more logical than the other. The idea of the contemporary State was based on secular government, so when you apply it to religious cultures, the reaction is not that great. So instead of trying to Secularize religious culture, we should reconsider if the whole world needs to be fragmented in states.

 

[Tesseract]

That's because they're gonna need entry into trumperica

 

[Rektash]

This is another problem with "Western" thought, the act of using Hand Sanitizer is symbolic rather than scientific, people do not know the scientific reason why they use Hand Sanitizer, they just know somehow it works (Even thought Hand Sanitizer is not that useful for people, and in the long term may hurt immunity).

And for you example, this is a "Western" phenomenon, its maybe a reaction to money in "Western" society. People who believe in that are not "Dumb" nor are their beliefs "Illogical"but giving money to receive money is a symbolic act in which reflects the American value "You have to spend money, to make money", and both acts are arbitrary. (Plus the people who are soliciting this are probably con artists).

What I'm trying to argue is that Religion and science (Secular) thought are equal, one is not more logical than the other. The idea of the contemporary State was based on secular government, so when you apply it to religious cultures, the reaction is not that great. So instead of trying to Secularize religious culture, we should reconsider if the whole world needs to be fragmented in states.

Spoiler

You must have really dirty hands.

 

[ReAxion]

why yes, I was there the day the Bangladesh state religion thread turned into the no-handwashing megathread |OT|

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

Spoiler

You must have really dirty hands.

why yes, I was there the day the Bangladesh state religion thread turned into the no-handwashing megathread |OT|

This is one example I was trying to illustrate a point with. The argument can be applied to several examples.

Spoiler

In fact, I have the dirtiest hands

 

[Anon67]

Hope Pakistan goes through the same. There were fucking protests today against Qadri's hanging. A guy who murdered the governor. Should tell us a lot.

Hope Pakistan goes through with it first, but chances for that are much lower...

I just can't even see this happening ever.

 

[gutter_trash]

Good,

theocracy is nothing but trouble

 

[AnAnole]

I really dislike when people use the words like "Modern," because secularization is not "Modern" but a different cultural model. People in "Developed" countries are bounded by scientific thinking, as much as any religious country, because both science and religion are cultural. Sure the ideas of science are universal, but the terminology, and the way people interpret the scientific "facts." For example: Hand sanitizer does not actually help, but people are convinced that it is, because some scientist probably tested this out.

The problem with state and religion, is the state, not the religion. The idea of a state is capitalist and western centered idea, that why it does not work with a lot of cultures.

WTF am I reading?

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

WTF am I reading?

What don't you understand?

 

[Moronwind]

I think almost all of the Nordic countries have Christianity as their state religion, Sweden did until 2000. Seeing as these are some of the least religious countries in the world this clearly doesn't mean much.

Edit: Alternatively it means that religion is only as repressed as it needs to be.

 

[Ganzlinger]

 

[Moosichu]

I really dislike when people use the words like "Modern," because secularization is not "Modern" but a different cultural model. People in "Developed" countries are bounded by scientific thinking, as much as any religious country, because both science and religion are cultural. Sure the ideas of science are universal, but the terminology, and the way people interpret the scientific "facts." For example: Hand sanitizer does not actually help, but people are convinced that it is, because some scientist probably tested this out.

The problem with state and religion, is the state, not the religion. The idea of a state is capitalist and western centered idea, that why it does not work with a lot of cultures.

If a scientist tested it and it worked... Science showed that.

If has been shown not to work, than whoever says it does isn't scientific by definition.


So...

What point were you trying to make there? I'm confused.


Just because someone doesn't believe in scientific principles, do technologies derived from science stop working with them? Will iPhones suddenly stop working in non-secular countries? Will the lack of combustion engine stop cars from running? Will building built using Newton's principles suddenly collapse the moment collective thinking disbelieves in science?

 

[Shmuppers]

Wouldn't this just paint a target on their head?

 

[zashga]

Good idea. Separation of church and state is god tier.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

This is another problem with "Western" thought, the act of using Hand Sanitizer is symbolic rather than scientific, people do not know the scientific reason why they use Hand Sanitizer, they just know somehow it works (Even thought Hand Sanitizer is not that useful for people, and in the long term may hurt immunity).

And for you example, this is a "Western" phenomenon, its maybe a reaction to money in "Western" society. People who believe in that are not "Dumb" nor are their beliefs "Illogical"but giving money to receive money is a symbolic act in which reflects the American value "You have to spend money, to make money", and both acts are arbitrary. (Plus the people who are soliciting this are probably con artists).

What I'm trying to argue is that Religion and science (Secular) thought are equal, one is not more logical than the other. The idea of the contemporary State was based on secular government, so when you apply it to religious cultures, the reaction is not that great. So instead of trying to Secularize religious culture, we should reconsider if the whole world needs to be fragmented in states.

A worldview based on hearsay, fallacious thinking and ancient writings by pre-scientific people is equivalent to the rigorous testing, peer review and predictive power of science...?

What is your 'logical' religious worldview?

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

If a scientist tested it and it worked... Science showed that.

If has been shown not to work, than whoever says it does isn't scientific by definition.


So...

What point were you trying to make there? I'm confused.


Just because someone doesn't believe in scientific principles, do technologies derived from science stop working with them? Will iPhones suddenly stop working in non-secular countries? Will the lack of combustion engine stop cars from running? Will building built using Newton's principles suddenly collapse the moment collective thinking disbelieves in science?

Sorry If I'm not adequately explaining my argument.

In countries like Bangladesh, which people in the West considered religious, thus less "progressive" than Western countries. I argue that all cultures participate in forms of symbolic thought and abstract thought, but each framed in different ways, one with Gods and the other with science.

All cultures participate in empirical activities and also symbolic abstract activities, that don't make sense. However in the West the prevailing thought is that Western action is justified with science, empirical or not. So I argue that perception that everything that Western people do is scientifically correct is wrong.

Again instead of trying to change cultures, we should look at the root of the problem (The State structure)

 

[Moronwind]

^Dunno about you, but secularism to me comes down to the idea that your religious convictions are your business and yours alone, therefor they should be kept the fuck out of politics which is the business of many.

 

[Zapages]

I just can't even see this happening ever.

Islamic Republic part in Pakistan didn't come until after Zulifiqar Bhutto.... From what I remember...