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Batman [Mafia] |OT| The mafia game Gafia deserves , but not the one it needs
- Thread starter roytheone
- Start date
More things for me to counter, a doctor does not surprise me in the least as it adds dynamic to a strong killer.
Being 1-shot isn't a nerf by the way. This number of players would call for 2-shot regular vig or 1-shot strong.
Sorian counters Xam. Even if both are town, Xam may target scum.
What are these votes going for?
And who has the good point? These votes are feeling random.
To see if we still have it. I voted wee before I saw Topo doing the same BTW
wee isn't my strongest scum read BTW so I don't wanna lynch her.
No, see, you're answering the wrong question here. We're not asking why your strong kill has a windup nerf, the question is why you have a strong kill. A one-shot vanilla vig in an 18-player game is not a dangerous enough role to require adding a strong modifier to it, especially since there are 4 roles who counter you even without it, so it must be to balance something else - but what? We've yet to see any town roles that would be particularly affected by it, and we've already discovered two maf roles. You argue that your windup exists because of the doc, but adding an entire night of charging to bypass one player is a shitty trade-off that makes it harder for you to land a kill than it would be without the strong part at all.
I answered this in the other post though. There is probably a bulletproof maf. It's not like I can point to balance without knowing the other team. We have two maf roles known, the limerick thing and the vote eraser/role block. The other 2-3 are a big mystery. The doc is ONE thing I am countering, I doubt it is the only thing.
weemadarthur
Member
This is compatible with someone who casts sleepwalking, which isn't that common a role, right? One was in Princess so I'd be surprised to see it repeated so soon.
Or you were redirected in some way. That seems more likely. It's tough though, because if there's a redirect or switcher, we can't count on the night results being what was intended. It takes away certain arguments.
CornBurrito
Member
My 2 cents: Whenever I've been scum I've employed the tactic of contesting the alignment of claimed roles with meta balance arguments. "Oh, I don't think it would be balanced if scum had a double voter. Especially one that couldn't turn off the double vote."
weemadarthur
Member
Sleepwalker is a very common role. We had one in Love Boat as well.
The very first Gafia game had a sleepwalker and that game influenced a lot of later games' roles.
weemadarthur
Member
A sleepwalker is common. But he sounded like he was claiming not to be a sleepwalker.
it sounds like the opposite to me.
So what you're saying is, town has a strong one-shot windup vig to counter a bulletproof maf who (due to the fact that it's Day 4 and you seem to be the only townie killing role) has a low chance of being nightkilled in the first place?
Seems legit.
Going to have to agree with Fire here. The claim smells of obvious sleepwalker.
weemadarthur
Member
Oh. Then why is he being coy?
I'm happy to think he's a sleepwalker, because it lets us analyze every one else's night actions without trying to decipher switches.
That's my guess. Ask me again after the game when I've seen the full role list and I'll be happy to tell you if this game was balanced well or not. I always give the benefit of the doubt and assume it is so I'm offering one likely explanation. A lot of elements go into balancing roles, it's not usually a 1:1 thing.
Because he is lying and if he is telling the truth then that means Trigger is a scum tracker. There is no purpose to a sleepwalker unless it is throwing off a scum tracker.
Xamtheking
Member
Assume nothing role-wise
Just because we haven't seen a role before doesn't mean it can't be in the game
I think PW is a great example of that
Just because we haven't seen a role before doesn't mean it can't be in the game
I think PW is a great example of that
weemadarthur
Member
So you think the options are:
coppanuva is truthful, trigger is scum
Coppanuva is lying, coppa is scum
Coppanuva is lying, attempting a town gambit
?
Yes and fuck this game if it is the last one because we are on day 4 with no scum dead yet and I can already tell I'm the next likely mislynch.
You should know a thing or two about a pointless ability
Besides, the first Gafia game had a sleepwalker, but no scum trackers or any mafia aligned investigative roles. It may be a hint, but not a guarantee.
You should know a thing or two about a pointless ability
Besides, the first Gafia game had a sleepwalker, but no scum trackers or any mafia aligned investigative roles. It may be a hint, but not a guarantee.
It certainly doesn't help when no one is letting me use it.
The first gafia game had a sleepwalker because, if I recall (not looking it up right now), scum team was relatively weak so some traps were placed to cause possible mislynches. So the peeping tom might find the sleepwalker in a bad position. We've kind of gravitated from those mislynch traps.
weemadarthur
Member
You are alive on Day 4.
Sophia's flow chart is not wrong in its recommendations.
You are commonly killed by mafia in the first two nights, especially if your scum hunting is on point. Unless of course, you Are mafia.
They just as easily made it so I didn't matter. They set me up to not have a vote day 3 or a power night 3 and now why waste a good thing, obviously I'm a good possible lynch after my insistence on Kark.
CornBurrito
Member
Camjo in general is trying really hard to push this "why would you be a strongman as town?" thing.
Though Sorian's claim legitimately doesn't sit right with me. Vote: Sorian. But if Sorian flips as town then the person I'd be taking a look at would be Camjo.
And why doesn't it sit well with you?
You know we're in Mylo if Sorian flips town and we have four scum, right?
And we're in mylo now if there are 5 scum. The complete lack of a neutral so far means we need to at least consider that as a possibility.
Xamtheking
Member
CORNB WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK
Votes need to be on a separate line of text
5/18!? Isn't that a bit excessive? I mean 4/20-24 is common and 3/18 with a neutral killer seems OK to me if scum is reasonably powerful.
28% is high but not out of the realm of possibility. It would be unheard of if there was a killing neutral in play but we've had one kill a night and even counting my one shot, that's quite a few mislynches for scum to win, one way to tip that scale a bit it just one more scum. Anything under 30% is fair game as long as the rest of the PRs make sense and scum is the only one killing for the most part.
CornBurrito
Member
Camjo's argument is convincing to be honest. I just don't want to discount the possibility that he's using meta balance arguments because he is scum.
CornBurrito
Member
No, I didn't quite realize that.
But if we were so close to Mylo why did we have people advocating yesterday for going down Launchpad's list?
Did we? I think the final sentiment was scum hunt and if someone lines up with Launch's list then all the better but if not, no harm no foul.
CornBurrito
Member
"we" collectively might not have. But unless I'm mistaken there certainly were people bringing up "go down the list!" as if it were a valid strategy. Which, if we were this close to MyLo yesterday, was not a good strategy at all.
I dunno
*shameless brag*
And being town I now know Launch's list either had zero or just one scum.
I voted Kark/Gryvan because:
1. He was in the list of 4 Launch gave us - I'm going to admit I thought using it as a base was a good idea.
2. I thought he was unnecessarily hostile just before he left the game.
3. I bought Sorian's arguments against him.
4. I didn't really believe his role claim and Gryvan running with it gave me a bad feeling. I still can't explain why he didn't just tell us Ace distracted players because he got belly rubs.
5. If he flipped scum, we'd get a ton of useful info based on his previous votes and statements in comparison with the others who were mostly null reads, not to mention potentially clearing Sorian.
Of course hindsight is 20/20. I regret not letting my frustration with his leave cloud the mostly-town read I'd had up to that point of him. Maybe that would have led to a coppa lynch instead.
About who I think might be scum, I feel like I'm fumbling through the dark right now. I feel like Karu, Trigger and Coppa are the low-hanging fruit right now, and I'd be ok with any of them going. I already said I'd love to be convinced of Sorian's scummyness, but he's been even more of a town read for me than Kark throughout the game, and him getting all worked up with another town player and digging his own grave is so typical that I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I'm at least going to agree lynching Sorian would be the greedy move to do if we're feeling gamble-ish, but I'm really not the one to lead that push.
weemadarthur
Member
Unvote
Don't get me wrong, I'll put my vote back. But we have 12 players, and a majority is 7. We had 4 votes on Sorian already.
I am pretty sure there are at least 3 scum. There could even be 4. We're at a point where, if there are multiple kills out there, scum could bus a player to force a turbo and still end up in Mylo if things go badly. And we haven't even seen everyone check in yet. What if there is a neutral who can kill? We should be on top of this, remembering the worst case scenario needs to be accounted for.
Don't get me wrong, I'll put my vote back. But we have 12 players, and a majority is 7. We had 4 votes on Sorian already.
I am pretty sure there are at least 3 scum. There could even be 4. We're at a point where, if there are multiple kills out there, scum could bus a player to force a turbo and still end up in Mylo if things go badly. And we haven't even seen everyone check in yet. What if there is a neutral who can kill? We should be on top of this, remembering the worst case scenario needs to be accounted for.
Xamtheking
Member
Guys, listen: We need to trust Sorian, if only for a moment. If you wanna give scum the easy victory, that's your choice, but I'm much more interested in a town victory. We need to press Coppa and Ty4on, as they were on the list. Also, I think no-one will be under the limerick curse or have their vote stolen because I think scum can only use those powers eveey other night.
It's possible we still have votes stolen and curses thrown. Trigger, Karu and Launch haven't posted yet.
Why do you think both of them are scum powers, though? If so, even if the vote steal doubles as a delayed role blocker it seems like a weak arsenal for scum when we supposedly have a vig, doctor, chat blocker, vote cop, tracker, overrider and have confirmed role cop and commuter. Assuming four scum there's only one more PR unless they can kill and use their PR at the same time.
CornBurrito
Member
Unless I am mistaken, Absolut was on that Launch list. Why would scum kill someone on the list (did Absolut even soft claim PR?) and reduce it to a 50% gamble?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but the Joker sounds more like a neutral role to me. I don't think it's scum.
I've got a possible explanation. It's bait. The non-town in that list is a neutral.
As such, considering my current theory that the other neutral in this game is the Joker and Coppa visited Kark while nothing happened to him, I'm going to say that Ty4on is the clown in question.
VOTE: Ty4on
Also voting to see if I've been Joker'd
I've got a possible explanation. It's bait. The non-town in that list is a neutral.
As such, considering my current theory that the other neutral in this game is the Joker and Coppa visited Kark while nothing happened to him, I'm going to say that Ty4on is the clown in question.
VOTE: Ty4on
Also voting to see if I've been Joker'd
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
VOTE: Ty4on
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Here's what I know so far:
1) Sorian got hit with something on Night 2. It took his vote and we can see the effect of it. He's claiming it's Joker toxin.
2) Sorian is claiming he was roleblocked. If that is true, it was obviously not the town roleblocker, so it had to be non-town.
3) There's a non-town between Coppa and Ty4on.4
4) Scum was willing to dwindle that list down by eliminating AB. Could mean two things - they're ready to bus someone (which isn't a huge loss because they've not lost anyone so far) or there is actually no scum in that group.
5) Coppa visited Kark on N2, but he had no visible effect on Kark. Likely means that he has an information role, which would probabilistically make it a scum role.
1) Sorian got hit with something on Night 2. It took his vote and we can see the effect of it. He's claiming it's Joker toxin.
2) Sorian is claiming he was roleblocked. If that is true, it was obviously not the town roleblocker, so it had to be non-town.
3) There's a non-town between Coppa and Ty4on.4
4) Scum was willing to dwindle that list down by eliminating AB. Could mean two things - they're ready to bus someone (which isn't a huge loss because they've not lost anyone so far) or there is actually no scum in that group.
5) Coppa visited Kark on N2, but he had no visible effect on Kark. Likely means that he has an information role, which would probabilistically make it a scum role.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Amendment to 2) It had to be non-town if his claim is legitimate