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[Bo_Hazem]

I understand. Just out of curiosity, how did you like Streets of Rage 4?

I was in "rage" because SOR, and maybe SOR2 in particular, is my most replayed game ever. I still have all the classic soundtracks of SOR in my car.

My problem is I wanted a matured SOR game, something like Fighting Force evolvement on PS1 if you remember that game. What I've seen in SOR4 is just a reskinned 1990's game that I already got fed up from beating more than 100 times. Me, my older sister and brother love this classic game, but they didn't respect the title because I've expected a more matured game this time around.

Didn't buy it, but might get it when it's on PS Plus or later. Something to note is I can't stomach old games/mechanics, I'm always in for innovations and new tech. Nostalgia is only nice to watch on youtube or listen to old music from those old games.

 

[bender]

Yakuza was my best modern beat em up game, now it's a mobile, chess-like combat BS.

God forbid the Yakuza team tried something new after creating six mainline games, a prequel, two remakes, various HD re-releases, two portable entries, and two spin-offs in the same style. Were you this ass mad when they released Kenzan, Dead Souls or Ishin?

 

[Chukhopops]

Bayo 2 is amazing but I still somewhat prefer Astral Chain, simply because of the gigantic learning curve and massive amount of combos you can achieve with the Chimeras.

A 60fps / native resolution version of it would probably give the game justice in terms of general perception.

 

[bender]

Bayo 2 is amazing but I still somewhat prefer Astral Chain, simply because of the gigantic learning curve and massive amount of combos you can achieve with the Chimeras.

A 60fps / native resolution version of it would probably give the game justice in terms of general perception.

I never got out of the tutorial. I really need to bump this game up in my backlog.

 

[NikuNashi]

I heard druckman wants to make Bayonetta next. List of things to improve.


Shorten legs.
Increase weight.
Baggy clothing (beige/green combat pants)
Make the face more masculine.
Remove the sexist (sexy) poses and replace with angry angsty 'badass' poses.
Insert contemporary storyline.

 

[SleepySlippy]

Bayonetta 2 is clearly a better game and pretty much polished to near perfection, in some ways nearly too much. Wonderful 101 is incredible but with some seriously weird design choices and overall it's just not as polished or spectacular as Bayonetta 2. Still both games were 100% a good enough reason to buy a Wii U and they worth it on Switch too. Enjoy.

However the climax in The Wonderful 101 is more exhilarating than in Bayonnetta 2. I remember laughing out of excitation while frantically smashing the buttons of my GamePad. The highs are well worth the downs in that game.

 

[tassletine]

It's an incredible game but I would put Hades above it.

 

[zoeyfan69]

I'd call Kirby a beat em up before bayonetta

 

[SSfox]

You can't compare bayo 2 to Gow or sor4. They play so much in different areas, to me they all best in their genre and style, but it can be compared to dmc5, and bayo is better, also I don't like the many playable characters in dmc5, they should've focus on 1 character and making a better lvl design. Also Bayo 1 is better than 2, 2 was good tho.

 

[SSfox]

Those are nintendo games, I don't like portables. Won't bother with something that's not on PS5/PC.

Oh man i'm so much with you I don't like portables games either, home console all the way, i only play portable when i don't have choice like a game I really interested in but it's only available in a fucking portable, i played nds dq games with emulator on pc, portable sucks, tho I think portable isn't as bad as mobile.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

God forbid the Yakuza team tried something new after creating six mainline games, a prequel, two remakes, various HD re-releases, two portable entries, and two spin-offs in the same style. Where you this ass mad when they released Kenzan, Dead Souls or Ishin?

I think they will see the sales and compare.

Don't even know what are these; Kenzan, Dead Souls or Ishin.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I forgot Revengeance. Awesome game for sure.
I’ll check out God Hand and Transformers. Honestly I saw Transformers come out but I thought “licensed game” and never really followed up with the reviews

Both God Hand and Transformers are chock full of punchy, pummeling action. In some ways, GH is like Punch Out except even wackier and you're not stationary, oh and despite the name, you have plenty of kicks as well.

Transformers builds on top of the lite third person shooting that was in MGR and makes it play more into the game, though you can always stick to mostly fisticuffs if you want. It's got some rough edges due to being a seemingly rushed, budget title but if you can overlook those, it's a good, high speed brawler in 3D.
Sadly it's been delisted digitally, so you're gonna have to do some hunting. Or if you have PS Plus (NA) from a few years back, it was free in one of the months.

Some YouTube videos when you do get around to the games!


(I haven't actually watched that GH play list myself, though I know the dude's been repping GH hard for many years now)

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

It's a hack & slash game.

It was called "Stylistic Action Game" by the genre and DMC/Bayonetta creator Hideki Kamiya.

Hack n' slash games are what's called "Diablo-like" in modern times even though Diablo's creators called it a hack n slash game.

 

[Spaceman292]

The only two flaws of Bayonetta 2 are:

- too many bossfights
- stupid hair

I can't remember the last time I've seen someone be so wrong.

 

[Labolas]

Based on pure mechanics and teaching you how to play the game, Bayo 1 is better but Bayo 2 does have some good qualities to it. Namely, it looks better and the spectacles are cooler to look at it.

I for one cannot wait for the third game and I am so glad Nintendo kept the series alive. But I am curious? Outside of Devil May Cry what is everyone's rec for other amazing 3D beat em up games? I am hungry for more and I really haven't played too many in the last few years...mostly due to the fact I kept getting disappointed in them!

Play Metal Gear Rising Revengence, Astral Chain is fun to play as well or if you want another Kamiya game, Wonderful 101 is good as well.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I heard druckman wants to make Bayonetta next. List of things to improve.


Shorten legs.
Increase weight.
Baggy clothing (beige/green combat pants)
Make the face more masculine.
Remove the sexist (sexy) poses and replace with angry angsty 'badass' poses.
Insert contemporary storyline.

You jest, but I'm open to seeing PG collaborate with a Western dev on anything.

It's no secret that PG has taken influence from the West and I'm sure they will fight hard to maintain the tradition of having great asses on their characters anyway.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I can't remember the last time I've seen someone be so wrong.

I can see the "too many boss fights" complaint having merit, albeit not worded in a way that gets the point across best.

Depending on how the devs space out boss fights, it can make the player feel like there's no build up to the big fight. On top of that Bayo 2 dialled down the overall damage output, making boss fights feel spongier than normal.

It was probably a conscious decision on PG's part, I remember them saying they wanted the game to feel like a consecutive chain of climaxes, but not everyone enjoys that without sufficient (obviously, this is subjective) build up.

For what it's worth, I think MGR had the best pacing and build ups to boss fights in PG's catalogue, even if it broke some sacred action game traditions while doing so (forced limp-walking, lengthy expository cutscenes + final boss straight outta nowhere). It definitely helps that the boss designs are all really endearing and iconic to me.

 

[Spaceman292]

I can see the "too many boss fights" complaint having merit, albeit not worded in a way that gets the point across best.

Depending on how the devs space out boss fights, it can make the player feel like there's no build up to the big fight. On top of that Bayo 2 dialled down the overall damage output, making boss fights feel spongier than normal.

It was probably a conscious decision on PG's part, I remember them saying they wanted the game to feel like a consecutive chain of climaxes, but not everyone enjoys that without sufficient (obviously, this is subjective) build up.

For what it's worth, I think MGR had the best pacing and build ups to boss fights in PG's catalogue, even if it broke some sacred action game traditions while doing so (forced limp-walking, lengthy expository cutscenes + final boss straight outta nowhere). It definitely helps that the boss designs are all really endearing and iconic to me.

I get that. I think MGR is more memorable and fun overall.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

I get that. I think MGR is more memorable and fun overall.

I think it also helps that MGR isn't too long and has lots of memorable sequences + music going on. Plenty of highly quotable dialogue too.

Would really like to see Kenji Saito (MGR & Transformers) get another directorial chance with more time and budget.

 

[Mr Branding]

ninja gaiden black and 2 are still the best imo. Gow Ascension is often unfairly judged since it really has a robust combat system. Bayo games are tied. The first has a better more streamlined combat system bit has those on rails chapters and the turrets ugh, but 2 has that climax get out of jail free card and the witch time is slightly shorter and weirder.

 

[xviper]

+ Good Gameplay

-Bad and repetitive boss fights
-Bad pacing
-Bad and cringe story and characters, Bayonetta is easily the worst main character in gaming history
-Bad graphics that looks like a 2008 game

Platinum last good game was MGR, after that everything went downhill

 

[yurinka]

It was called "Stylistic Action Game" by the genre and DMC/Bayonetta creator Hideki Kamiya.

Hack n' slash games are what's called "Diablo-like" in modern times even though Diablo's creators called it a hack n slash game.

No, Hideki Kamiya can call it however he wants, but almost everybody else calls the genre of Bayonetta or Devil May Cry hack and slash, as can be seen in place like wikipedia.

There is this 3rd person action-adventure variant of the hack and slash, and then there is also the action RPG variant of hack and slash of Diablo and similar games.

 

[MagnesG]

Bayo 2 is amazing but I still somewhat prefer Astral Chain, simply because of the gigantic learning curve and massive amount of combos you can achieve with the Chimeras.

A 60fps / native resolution version of it would probably give the game justice in terms of general perception.

Immediately hooked when it went on full animu.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I just beat it for the first time recently, excited for the Bayo 3 news finally this year.

IMO Bayo 1 is better... but they are close

1 had a better/more serious story, but 2 perfected the combat mechanics and UI. While the story of 2 completely irreverent and just enough to move the plot forward, the game to me was much much more fun.

I hope 3 is the best of both worlds.

 

[IKSTUGA]

Bayo 2 is good, but DMC V absolutely destroys it in almost every category. Amazing visuals + tight mechanics + Devil Trigger/ Bury the Light playing in the background = PERFECTION.

 

[VGEsoterica]

+ Good Gameplay

-Bad and repetitive boss fights
-Bad pacing
-Bad and cringe story and characters, Bayonetta is easily the worst main character in gaming history
-Bad graphics that looks like a 2008 game

Platinum last good game was MGR, after that everything went downhill

Bad graphics? We must have eyes that work differently. They certainly aren't the best ever but bad?!

 

[Keihart]

Somebody said God Hand?

You can't compare bayo 2 to Gow or sor4. They play so much in different areas, to me they all best in their genre and style, but it can be compared to dmc5, and bayo is better, also I don't like the many playable characters in dmc5, they should've focus on 1 character and making a better lvl design. Also Bayo 1 is better than 2, 2 was good tho.

You can pick either of the 3 main characters of DMCV and they all have better movesets with more utility and creative moves than the whole arsenal of Bayo 2. I do think that bayo 1 it's miles better than 2 tho.

 

[SSfox]

Somebody said God Hand?

You can pick either of the 3 main characters of DMCV and they all have better movesets with more utility and creative moves than the whole arsenal of Bayo 2. I do think that bayo 1 it's miles better than 2 tho.

I can see the plus on having multi characters, more variety and see, but in this kind of game, just give me one character with deep gameplay, good story and good lvl design. The way it's done in DMC5 is really not good imo, you play Nero, you unlock new stuffs, then ... BOOM guess what you're gonna play Dante next mission, and then once you come back on Nero i forgot what i bought to him and, and vice versa when switch with V and Dante, and the fact that both are deep gameplay wise make it even worse. IDK maybe it could've been better if it was done in other way, but i def not like the way multi characters were done in DMCV.

I agree about last point.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Replaying on Switch with having experience with Dark Souls games really helps navigate the fights better. Getting mostly Platinum rankings instead of stone this time...

 

[Belmonte]

Didn't play Bayonetta 2 yet, so I don't have an opinion. My favorites are God Hand, DMC3/V and Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma(didn't play the original yet).

Just passing by to give my thumbs up to anyone calling Bayonetta a beat em up. Always thought it was lame to define a genre of a game based if the character uses fist or weapons when, mechanically, it is the same.

The naming of the genre is a mess. I like to use "brawler" but I admit it is too wide term also.

 

[Majukun]

bayonetta 2 isn't even the best bayonetta game

 

[Dr_Salt]

I forgot Revengeance. Awesome game for sure.
I’ll check out God Hand and Transformers. Honestly I saw Transformers come out but I thought “licensed game” and never really followed up with the reviews

You better do.

 

[Neff]

Bayonetta is easily the worst main character in gaming history

How can someone manage to say the complete opposite of that which is true

 

[SkylineRKR]

DMCV Special with Vergil is the best I have played so far. Its ridiculous and just pure bliss. When bury the light kicks in during Stylish rank I just get into the zone and I get creative... and motivated! Then I fish for a JCE finish. I play this shit with Pulse 3D and its just something.

NG2 on Series SX/OneX is the other one.

 

[Effigenius]

‘Modern’ and ‘ever’ seem like conflicting qualifiers . Its like saying Hitman 3 is the best game since 2020 ever.

 

[mrwhatever]

Those are nintendo games, I don't like portables. Won't bother with something that's not on PS5/PC.

They are still doing Lost Judgement that is exactly what you want, is just more of what Yakuza 6 is.

But there is still all the Yakuza 0 to 6 mainline games + Judgement that you can play.

 

[mrwhatever]

Bayonetta is a great game but isn't a beat 'em up (same goes with DMC or GoW). It's a hack & slash game.

Good modern beat 'em ups are Fight 'n Rage or Streets of Rage 4. Battletoads is ok, a fun new take in the genre.

P.S.: I don't like her hair in Bayo 2, let's hope they give her long hair for Bayo 3.

This genre is interesting because it clearly came from those 2D sidescrolling games. But the ones you've mentioned are smaller 2D games, just that.

It is similar to imply that Mario Odyssey is not a platformer because Shovel Knight and Sonic Mania exist.
Yeah being 3D brings lots of new boundaries to game design, but even in Bayonetta you are walking forward punching and kicking dudes and getting their weapons to hit them back.
Even the recent Battletoads that you've mentioned added a grade rank system to each battle like Devil May Cry and some dashes/launchers and aerial combos to mix up the game.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

They are still doing Lost Judgement that is exactly what you want, is just more of what Yakuza 6 is.

But there is still all the Yakuza 0 to 6 mainline games + Judgement that you can play.

Played all of those lately, not replying them indeed and gonna give judgement a shot.

 

[Marty-McFly]

Very special game. Maybe #2 for me all time but nothing tops NG Black imo.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Lol also the Wii U hardly qualifies as ancient. I mean it came out one year before the PS4 and Xbox One and people would hardly call those ancient

Coming out a year before the PS4 and XBO didn't stop it from being closer to the 360 and PS3 in performance, if we mean more than just chronology in terms of ancient hardware

 

[nerdface]

It’s super fun, but Hades is the best hack n slash oat.

unless you play the gun or bow, then it’s the best shooter

 

[mcjmetroid]

The only two flaws of Bayonetta 2 are:

- too many bossfights
- stupid hair

Hoping for Bayo 3 to be the ultimate.

Too many floating sections with shit gameplay.

Bayo 1 is better

 

[clem84]

Lol also the Wii U hardly qualifies as ancient. I mean it came out one year before the PS4 and Xbox One and people would hardly call those ancient

Only because it travelled in time from 2006.

 

[yurinka]

This genre is interesting because it clearly came from those 2D sidescrolling games. But the ones you've mentioned are smaller 2D games, just that.

It is similar to imply that Mario Odyssey is not a platformer because Shovel Knight and Sonic Mania exist.
Yeah being 3D brings lots of new boundaries to game design, but even in Bayonetta you are walking forward punching and kicking dudes and getting their weapons to hit them back.
Even the recent Battletoads that you've mentioned added a grade rank system to each battle like Devil May Cry and some dashes/launchers and aerial combos to mix up the game.

Yes, they are smaller but are 2D sidescrollers where you can walk a bit vertically in addition to horizontally. Games like Bayonetta aren't sidescrollers and aren't 2D. And their gameplay, even if evolved from beat'em ups, it's way different.

It's like to say Halo and Doom Eternal are the same than Contra or Gunstar Heroes because you run and jump while constantly shooting. No, they are very different games even if a genre evolved from the other. Beyond the switch from 2D to 3D, the gameplay and progress through the game changed a lot.

 

[nerdface]

I mean the combo gameplay mostly happens on a 2D plane even if you jump, or use launchers. You don’t punch or parry ‘up’ or ‘down’. You control your character with 2 axis… and a jump button.

…the cool thing about the 3D backgrounds is it can be a level as you run, or maybe you’re flying through the air in another dimension twisting and turning.

…but at the end of the day you have 2 axis of control.

 

[Arthimura]

Honestly Bayonetta 2 got a lot of praise because it was a Nintendo exclusive, Bayonetta 1 was not so praised when the franchise was multiplat.

In my opinion there are better modern games in the genre. Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance was better in my opinion.

 

[mrwhatever]

Yes, they are smaller but are 2D sidescrollers where you can walk a bit vertically in addition to horizontally. Games like Bayonetta aren't sidescrollers and aren't 2D. And their gameplay, even if evolved from beat'em ups, it's way different.

It's like to say Halo and Doom Eternal are the same than Contra or Gunstar Heroes because you run and jump while constantly shooting. No, they are very different games even if a genre evolved from the other. Beyond the switch from 2D to 3D, the gameplay and progress through the game changed a lot.

Yeah, I agree with you in some areas. Sure the 3D aspect can create many new styles of gameplay, while original Crash Bandicoot and Mario 3D World translate more directly the more classic 2D vibe but with the z-axis, there are also games like Mario 64/Sunshine and Banjo Kazooie that have a whole different approach to 3D Platformer.

I also agree with you that people want to create too many dumb and unnecessary sub-genre names like character/stylish/majumbo jambo action that nobody uses.

But if you take Beat n up strictly to 2D side-scrolling games you also wouldn't call Yakuza games beat n ups. Their progressions system with multiple unlockable styles, movesets, new weapons and the sheer quantity of moves Kiryu has at the start of the first PS2 Yakuza game is more than most 16 bit games we have in the genre. Yakuza games also don't feature a jump button, something that was crucial in most Final Fight/Streets of Rage games.

Most of the Yakuza 0 gameplay ideas also come from its spin-off Ryuga ga gotoku Ishin that is more about guns and swords.
Batman Arkham games you also unlock new moves, have a grading system after each fight encouraging variety (Origins and Knight mainly) and even some interesting combos.
Ryse son of Rome also uses Arkham's combat but the game does not have any new moves or weapons and it clocks in after 4 hours.
Marvel's Spider-man PS4 also has a more intricate combat with aerial emphasis web shoots that keep enemies in the air and lots of unlockable moves and gadgets. (Not to mention Web of Shadows that is DMC levels of crazy combat)

So which one of those are 3D beat n ups?! You know I don't mind just criticizing and appreciating each style of combat.
Even Streets of Rage 4 uses a complex juggling system, a void/training mode like DMC5/Bayonetta, frame-specific techs, launchers and a proper grade rank system to each level.

But I really appreciate your answer and contribution to this discussion, it's nice to talk to people that like the same stuff as me

 

[WitchHunter]

"Growing up I absolutely loved the beat em up genre. Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Splatterhouse, Final Fight, Slashout, all the amazing Capcom and Konami arcade games....solid gold! Super simple and addictive gameplay...make progress, beat people up and keep at it!"
Agreed. But what happened after that? Have you been kidnapped and made you a conformist? Bayonetta? Really? It was a zerofeel game.

 

[WitchHunter]

Play Mother Russia Bleeds. The only current day game that has any value in this genre.

 

[Neff]

How does Wonderful 101 stack up against Bayonetta 2?

The Wonderful 101 was everything I wanted Bayonetta 2 to be but wasn't. Bayo 2 plays it way too safe and lacks the spark of the original. TW101 surpassed my expecations and then some. That game spoiled me fucking rotten.