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BBC: Microsoft’s Mega-Deal Worries Small Video Game Developers

Anime-Vix

Member
Interesting article from the indie perspective


The company's Sarah Bond, corporate vice president at Xbox's Gaming Ecosystem Organisation, argues that Game Pass will, if anything, benefit indie developers by introducing them to new and unfamiliar types of game.
As an example, she says that of the people who tried indie puzzle game, Human Fall Flat, on Game Pass, 60% had never played a puzzle game before. And that 40% of those people went on to buy a different puzzle game outside of Game Pass.
"We are continuing to invest with indie developers and we will continue to do so as the service grows," Ms Bond says in an interview with the BBC, though she declined to discuss specifics.
"No, it will not make us a monopoly," she adds, referring to the planned deal with Activision.

When Tanya Short first pitched the idea for Boyfriend Dungeon, a computer game where the player's romantic partners are monster-vanquishing weapons, publishers didn't seem overly interested.
"They all rejected it. They said the name wasn't interesting, or they just didn't understand it," says Ms Short, the director and chief executive of independent game studio, Kitfox Games.
It was only after a growing buzz about the game, and some initial funds, via Kickstarter, that the games platforms changed their tune.
Boyfriend Dungeon is now available on a variety of systems, including PC, Xbox and Nintendo Switch.
But Ms Short worries that quirky games like hers, designed by creatively independent studios, will have an even harder route to market in the future - because the biggest corporate firms in gaming are expanding.

Ms Short is one of a number of indie game developers who have told BBC News they are worried about what the deal could mean for the industry.
Microsoft insists it will continue to cater for small, independent developers. But some of those developers are deeply concerned, for instance, that if the Microsoft-owned, Game Pass subscription service, increasingly becomes the only means through which many people access games, small studios could be left competing for funding and promotion via that platform.
It could be viewed as a video game version of the problem that some artists say they face on music streaming platform, Spotify.
Ms Short also points out that, currently, indie studios already avoid launching their games in the run-up to Christmas, since so many large, or "triple-A" titles are released during that period. Think Call of Duty or FIFA. But with greater consolidation of large developers - and platforms, such as Xbox and Game Pass, calling more of the shots - things could get even trickier.
"This Activision acquisition strikes fear in us because it makes it so much more obvious - maybe they could dominate the rest of the year and then what do we do?" she says.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
GP has tons of indie games. Also, the majority of games on Xbox are NOT on GP.

Release a good indie game and people will buy it no matter what time of the year. No need for sub plan either. Lots of big hit indie games start out at $10 or $20 selling tons of copies and maybe go sub plan later to get last ditch partnership money.

Sounds like Tanya Short has no confidence in her studio's games to compete.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Somebody save the indie devs that make games that mostly just bloat the store and disturb your way looking for good games to buy.

Animation Hand GIF by Pipapeep
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Been saying this from the start.

Gamepass is a fully curated ecosystem. Nothing gets on it unless MS says so. Its different from simply offering dev resources and managing licensing on the hardware platform because in that circumstance once a title has passed cert, it can then be published at a time of the vendor's choosing. An important consideration for marketing and competitive purposes.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Man, some of you guys need to read instead of reflexively defending your favorite platform. This is the very danger I’ve been talking about from the beginning.

If MS disincentivizes purchasing games and succeeds with GP, they become the gatekeeper of gaming. This is so plainly obvious …

Why are people who are actually trying to earn a living via software not allowed to express the dangers of this model without the same tired, and not even relevant, defense? I have yet to see anyone address this. And we have already seen how damaging and ridiculous these kinds of gatekeepers can be with the App Store.

The crux of this article has been apparent since the announcement of the service. But it will be hand waived by the typical crew.
 

kingfey

Banned
Been saying this from the start.

Gamepass is a fully curated ecosystem. Nothing gets on it unless MS says so. Its different from simply offering dev resources and managing licensing on the hardware platform because in that circumstance once a title has passed cert, it can then be published at a time of the vendor's choosing. An important consideration for marketing and competitive purposes.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.
Same for every console, and market. No one wants stuff on their system, that they dont like. Its called free market.

Gamepass is MS product. They dont owe to anyone, what they put on their service.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Been saying this from the start.

Gamepass is a fully curated ecosystem. Nothing gets on it unless MS says so. Its different from simply offering dev resources and managing licensing on the hardware platform because in that circumstance once a title has passed cert, it can then be published at a time of the vendor's choosing. An important consideration for marketing and competitive purposes.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.
That's true.

Sub plans work that way to keep people interested. You piece out the content bit by bit. Netflix is the same. You don't get NF trying to do deals where on January 1st there's 2000 new shows and the rest of the year there's nothing.

Even if every game company went to MS and said they want to be on GP, so MS make an offer. MS would say forget it because they'd be shelling out tons of partnership money for the same 25 million people where it's not like the sub count is going to ramp up to 100 million in a week.

It's a slow strategic build.
 

boomcrab

Member
Shes talking about the future of gamepass and what that might possibly mean for indie games down the line. I feel like I have to mention that since some of you dont read. There are some valid points here. The spotify comparison, while unlikely, kind of puts what she means better in perspective.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Shes talking about the future of gamepass and what that might possibly mean for indie games down the line. I feel like I have to mention that since some of you dont read. There are some valid points here. The spotify comparison, while unlikely, kind of puts what she means better in perspective.
Good thing gamepass isnt spotify.
As long as xbox store exist, these indie developers would make enough money. They also make money from other platforms, which their games exist in.

It would be a problem, IF gamepass didnt allow you the option to buy games.
 
Considering the amount of shovelware indies that is currently available I don't understand her concerns. Tons of indies grow and die and some never find their public without being highlighted by platform holders or algorithms. Game dev is becoming so simple that anybody can start developing their games but success is never preordained. I mean just look at mobile markets...With Game Pass there will be another platform and if subscription services were to become the way people consume the content, then the "sellers" (developers) will just adapt. At least for now Game Pass serves as a gatekeepr from all that trash available online.

Sounds like Tanya Short has no confidence in her studio's games to compete.
Exactly. Just because you develop the games it does not mean you are entitled to success. That's how all the markets work.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.
So how indies survive on Steam then?

If MS disincentivizes purchasing games and succeeds with GP, they become the gatekeeper of gaming. This is so plainly obvious …
But you operate under the assumption that Game Pass suddently becomes the only platform that provides the games. if subscription services become popular, we will have more services like this. Just like with the current storefronts their might appear "indie streaming service" and so on
 
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There are tons of indie devs in the world, from steam, xbox, playstation, nintendo, and mobile.
Sometimes like there is too much of them. I mean the amount of indie games I see on steam make me immediately go after the highest ranking or in top charts only. Literally have no desire to scroll through all of them.
 

kingfey

Banned
Sometimes like there is too much of them. I mean the amount of indie games I see on steam make me immediately go after the highest ranking or in top charts only. Literally have no desire to scroll through all of them.
and worst, its either same copy carbon, or poorly designed game. Its hard to find a good gem, with all these games flooding the market.
 
Were these indie devs similarly worried when Sony gradually shifted focus away from them when their own 1P AAA content started to get rolling, and they increased deals with larger AAA 3P games? Any links from press circuit interviews showing as such?

Dunno; it's just really hard to care for having genuine conversations on this stuff when there could be so many bad faith actors involved who only apply these "worries" and standards when it's a specific platform holder doing them, but not any others. Kind of like the people suddenly arguing about monopolies and industry consolidation despite others like Tencent and Embracer Group regularly investing in (and acquiring) lots of teams over the years and yet nary a pique raised.

If you're about those things, keep that same energy and keep it 100% in all instances, not just selective ones. That's my stance on it.


C'mon you gotta admit they have a bit of a point. Sort of like the 1P crossgen controversy before the consoles came out where Microsoft got lambasted for publicly saying they'd still provide 1P games for XBO and One X for a while, and Sony kind of rode on that to their benefit?

But then when Sony announced that more than a handful of upcoming 1P games would be coming to PS4, a lot of those same spots argued about how it was pro-consumer and a net benefit (which it is), while never going back apologizing for their bad takes when it was just Xbox stating they were supporting crossgen with 1P content?

It really does ask the question why so-called journalists and press can't keep that same energy, or even certain developers and publishers for that matter (like the Moon Studio dev). Sometimes it's like there's a legion of weird conditionals put up for Microsoft that would either hurt them competitively or cancel out something else they're trying to do, yet the same things are never pushed unto Sony and Nintendo. And it's usually members of the press who do it, only exacerbating the problem with wild parts of the fanbases.

I'm not even necessarily saying the Boyfriend Dungeon dev here is wrong in their concerns, but it's extremely ironic they have this concern, considering GamePass as a service is what helped their game get exposure in the first place. And if they're worried about Microsoft easing up on supporting indies as they expand their 1P resources, then they'll either find other avenues to push their games through, or one of the other platform holders will pick up the slack (like Microsoft did when Sony eased off on indies).

It's just very unrealistic of them IMO to expect a platform holder to not scale back their focus on 3P indie content as they increase focus on their 1P content. As long as they aren't totally blowing indies off, though, then it should be okay. Plus, this ironically benefits customers as it forces indie games to compete for even better quality to stand out from the crowd, so the best of the best tend to get noticed and picked up by platform holders.
 
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and worst, its either same copy carbon, or poorly designed game. Its hard to find a good gem, with all these games flooding the market.
Indeed. It very similar to whatever is happening on mobile market. Guess eventually mobile and general market will be either the same or very similar. With more powerful mobile phones and streaming, with the games like Genshin Impact, COD mobile and so on we will have the same games on different platforms.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Indeed. It very similar to whatever is happening on mobile market. Guess eventually mobile and general market will be either the same or very similar.
Its already getting close to that. Big games now days have $100 mtx coins. Most of the market copy the new successful trend (BR mode, and hero shooter mode).
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Maybe it should be noted that the (((concern))) goes from someone who made Boyfriend Simulator. What's next small devs are scared when Sony release major release and their shitty games are left alone?
 

Leyasu

Banned
I don’t get it, are Microsoft refusing to let her sell her games on Xbox? Or is she angling for the money upfront from having her game on gamepass but hasn’t yet received the offer? Or have they told her that they don’t want her game on the service?

What is it?
 
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Weird, we're in a resurgence of indie games and studios globally and on more platforms and devices than ever before. Given all the app stores, games stores and overall growth of the market and ability to essentially self-publish one has to wonder what this article and that studio are on about.

There are more indie games developed/available, more players giving them a go and more sales to boot. Irrespective of buyouts or subscriptions there are more programs from Steam, Xbox and Sony than ever before. There are also more government grants/tax write offs for hiring within the gaming industry than ever before also.

SMH.
 
I can see why they'd be worried, if subscription services take off and people stop buying smaller titles at regular prices because a bunch of them are included in a service that makes the competition even tougher. That also gives the subscription companies too much power, they can basically say if you want your game to have a shot at bringing in any money take our deal.
 
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Kagey K

Banned
I don’t get it, are Microsoft refusing to let her sell her games on Xbox? Or is she angling for the money upfront from having her game on gamepass but hasn’t yet received the offer? Or have they told her that they don’t want her game on the service?

What is it?
Boyfriend Dungeon launched on Gamepass, so I'm not sure.
 

Zeroing

Banned
Let me see if I understand all this?


we go from indies are good to indies are garbage depending on what platform they are on… the studio was “good” when gave interviews advertising gamepass but now it’s a bad studio because it shown concerns

Then there’s the old “Sony too” but Sony doesn’t even have a gamepass competitor…

And from there we are at “ the media hates MS” where if anything from the big 3, MS is the one who always have the bigger presence in gaming articles… Phil gives a lot of interviews!

So excuse me but I’m confused…

I’m going to play video games for a bit. You guys have fun!
 
Been saying this from the start.

Gamepass is a fully curated ecosystem. Nothing gets on it unless MS says so. Its different from simply offering dev resources and managing licensing on the hardware platform because in that circumstance once a title has passed cert, it can then be published at a time of the vendor's choosing. An important consideration for marketing and competitive purposes.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.

An excellent argument. Don't often see it spelled out as well as this. That said, Microsoft, just like any other company, has the right to create such an offering to their customers. The question will then be if regulators feel Microsoft has a right to own Activision Blizzard King and put all their games into Game Pass. I personally feel they won't take much issue.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Game Pass is great for indies. There is no doubt about that.
Honestly indies are the main reason for me to have Game Pass right now and why I think good indie devs should embrace it. It's already super hard to find a good indie game among all of the shovelware and a lot of people don't want to drop 20 bucks on a turd of a game with no way to get their money back. Either that or someone needs to come up with a way to do timed trials of indies so you don't get stuck with something bad. Makes me wish demos like we had back on the 360 wouldn't have gone out of fashion. Bless Gaben for making bad games refundable on Steam.
 

oldergamer

Member
Been saying this from the start.

Gamepass is a fully curated ecosystem. Nothing gets on it unless MS says so. Its different from simply offering dev resources and managing licensing on the hardware platform because in that circumstance once a title has passed cert, it can then be published at a time of the vendor's choosing. An important consideration for marketing and competitive purposes.

On Gamepass, if there isn't a "slot" free... no can do. And as MS bulks up on first-party product those "slots" are going to get fewer and more sought-after, allowing the platform to play king-maker with any up and coming third-party.
Thats totally incorrect. You really couldn't be more wrong. There hasnt been one game turned down from being on gamepass. If its good enough to publish its good enough to be on the service.
 
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zeorhymer

Member
Article is a failed hit piece.

"They all rejected it. They said the name wasn't interesting, or they just didn't understand it," -- talking about how MS reacted to a game
Then complains that games "will have an even harder route to market in the future" even tho her game was funded via Kickstarter and still went on consoles.
Another person says that there's less competition or something.

There's so many avenues for indies to create their own games it's mind boggling. This is what is happened with the US comic book industry. It's as if the author is trying to make MS the boogieman or something.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Thats totally incorrect. You really couldn't be more wrong. There hasnt been one game turned down from being on gamepass. If its good enough to publish its good enough to be on the service.

Maybe not yet, but the point is that as time goes on and the first party line up matures and fills out its going to increasingly become an issue.

MS is under no obligation to put any third-party title on Gamepass, and the terms for each title are going to be negotiated independently and an offer made based on perceived value. Meaning that if they don't consider the title worth much to the service, they'll make a minimum offer.

Indies have no leverage, its all on the service provider. And as the service grows both in terms of content and subscribers. the deals tend to get worse and worse for small-timers. This is precisely what has happened with streaming music.
 

kingfey

Banned
MS is under no obligation to put any third-party title on Gamepass
This all you need to say. MS owns that service, and they want games, which they can put on their service. Nothing wrong with that. They arent running a charitable business.
 
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