Humdinger
Gold Member
Should be edited into the OP.
Thanks. I'm no fan of MS, but people do like to cherry-pick quotes in order to fan the flames.
Game companies are “baffled” by Microsoft’s multiplatform strategy, reluctant to develop games for Xbox consoles, according to a new report
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Drama Platform
Thanks. I'm no fan of MS, but people do like to cherry-pick quotes in order to fan the flames.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I mean I fully expect developers to give up the XBS. The obvious question is when. How many times did we see games get a PS4 port but not an X1 port and the XBS is doing even worse than the X1. Once the attach rates drop beyond a certain point, you're going to see support fall off. There's enough evidence of that.
A lot of people online try to push long form podcasts. It's why you have a WWE style attitude about simple business and economics. The problem for Dring is that outside of some people who actually care about this stuff, no one knows who he is.
If I was his media manager, I'd have him putting out a series of tweets similar to Mat P. and having short video segments expanding on the context of these tweets, combined with well written articles and then and only then maybe some long form interviews.
He does like one long for interview a month. And as someone who is actually interested in the data that he has, I'm not watching these videos. He launched his youtube channel over a month ago yet barely has more than 1K subscribers.
He doesn't segment his content very well. Everything seems random and he doesn't do enough to market his site or his channel. There doesn't seem to be a proper cadence to it.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Seeing you say this is very telling as you have been less bullish on Xbox.
And people wonder why I root for the death of Gamepass and why its a cancer. It is a great deal if you are willing to put up with the Windows Store and Xbox app on PC (they aren't that bad)
Gamepass is a parasite that is keeping Xbox alive, while at the same time killing it. It cannot be overrstated how much of failure it is when Call of Duty, failed to move the needle in a meaningful way.
I wont be surprised if the next Call of Duty is not a Day 1 title and it goes back to Playstation marketting like we're already Blops6 PS5 bundles. That is something I found absolutely unfathomable even last year.
On another note, my Gamepass subscription has finally expired and I will not be renewing. This basically enabled me to get my fully debloated Windows 11 IoT LTSC running as a Steam machine.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The Xbox crew has been telling us for YEARS that Final Fantasy games were coming to Xbox...but they're still not here. Why?
LordCBH
Member
If there's not an announcement at the June showcase then it's safe to say it isn't happening
noob smokes
Member
Wtf was xbox thinking its on them they are giving out games for 'free' on gp why the fuck would buy any of em after this its on them not the consumers they really stabbed themselves in the foot with a doubled edge sword
Me yesterday:
LOL.
And here we are, past that date, being the Xbox console with the best third-party support in history and with every game announced for 2026+ coming to Xbox, when supposedly by now we should be seeing massive cancellations or games that not coming to Xbox...
Judging by the article, it actually sounds more like there are developers who aren't happy with Xbox bringing their first-party games to other platforms because it makes things more difficult for them. Because for them, a situation where MS's first-party games stay on Xbox consoles (which would "help" increase the Xseries' user base) would be better, allowing them to have a larger number of potential users and less competition. MS needs to do things to resolve the clash between his interests and those of his partners (devs and Studios).
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Sooner
Member
Healthy reminder - you're wrong.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Gears of War 2 and 3 still aren't on PC and they have been in port everything mode for PC for a long time. Old Forza games will only ever be accessible through emulation. I guess an official x360 emulator on PS5 isnt impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Fess
Member
Nope. Sorry.
If you want to think about it seriously, try figure out how that will happen when not even all games can be accessed anymore for new owners on Series consoles.
You think they'll dig out old contracts and start pay up for new licensing deals and start porting delisted titles like Forza Horizon 1-4 for PS5?
You think they'll create an emulator for PS5 to run your old games for Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One? You think you'll even be able to run the discs?
You think the no longer available emulation team will be revived to get frameboosted Xbox One titles running on PS5?
And what about games from studios no longer around?
……
Nope. As said you'll get the new games and select old titles. That's it.
And that's exactly why oldtimer Xbox fans with big libraries of games going back 20 years aren't overly positive about Xbox ever fully merging into their PC Xbox App. It's literally not possible. You'll never get it all. Can't be done. At best they'll try fooling you with cloud streaming but it's not like everything is available there.
Killer8
Member
I think the cuts that both manufactures take will become less relevant to Xbox as time goes on and Xbox cements itself as a true third party.
Sony will continue to take a 30% cut of Microsoft games sold on their machine, because that's standard practice for releasing on PlayStation, but they won't be "using it against Xbox" (in Phil's words), because Xbox is becoming a third party like any other releasing games on PlayStation. At that point it would be like Sony using Capcom's 30% cut to harm Capcom via different dealings. Microsoft and Sony are no longer in direct competition in the traditional sense. That reality still seems lost on some.
Microsoft will reach a point where Xbox hardware is just totally irrelevant to their plans and maybe even ceases to be a thing. The sales numbers are speaking for themselves this gen and the next Xbox will be even worse. Rumors suggest that they are making a hybrid console x PC that even allows games from Steam to be installed. It goes without saying that games bought through Steam and installed on the next 'Xbox' aren't going to give Microsoft their 30% cut like when bought through their own store. Likewise, right now, a game played via Game Pass isn't giving them the cut either. The userbase is so small and everything important is on Game Pass anyway that I bet the number of people still actually buying games is small.
The way Microsoft makes their money now and going forward is via COD, Game Pass Ultimate and game sales on PC, PS5 and Switch 2.
The Activision Blizzard deal didn't pan out in the way people expected ie. buy them and make COD exclusive. But they own the biggest publisher in gaming now with a franchise that basically prints billions of dollars per year.
Game Pass Ultimate subs are gathering pace on PC and the objective now is to convert the Xbox console faithful into pseudo-PC gamers. It's an easy enough task of keeping that going by simply offering money to other publishers to add the PC versions of their games to the service.
And as for game sales, they are deprioritizing about 30 million Xbox players and reprioritizing around 10x that number spread across the old rival platforms.
I was hesitant to say "Microsoft might just need to get comfortable making less money" in this post like I was originally going to, as I think they may end up making more money than ever once they finally go all-in as a third party. Phil Spencer admirably tried his best to resurrect a dying brand, but the real genius here is Satya Nadella recognizing there is still a ton of money to be made in gaming just by swallowing their pride.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
In all honesty I wanted Xbox to thrive for a few reasons
First I think healthy competition is good for any business for the consumers and we haven't had real competition for quite awhile now
Second and kind of selfishly I have some good friends there and a couple who are no longer there and one was done super dirty in the end after what he accomplished for them so not super thrilled with them as of late
Sadly I truly love Gamepass and Play Anywhere but I also buy titles when I know I am going to enjoy a game but I also know things are tight for a lot of people and for many its just not feasible to buy games AND pay for GP so since GP did not have the affect the wanted numbers wise they are in trouble.
NickFire
Member
Does it really matter though? I know it might for some of the most passionate about old games. But isn't that an extremely small minority of gamers?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I wanted Xbox to succeed when they actually wanted to succeed.
When they innovated and were leaders they did GREAT things. They had people like Peter Moore, J. Allard, and Shane Kim to name a few. Those were non-MS people who understood what gamers wanted. They new how to nurture studios, lock up high quality exclusives (2007....man...what a time to be an xbox fan) and while it wasn't perfect (RRoD) they created a large following and made Xbox the multiplayer place to play.
Gamepass, was an innovation, but Phil and co BADLY misunderstood that market, games are not consumed the way Netflix is and they started it in an era when subscriptions were cheap enough that people could keep them going. The market got saturated with subscription services and gamers simply have different habits.
When they became trend chasers (Kinect an all in one box) and brought the Microsoft culture into the brand with people like Don Mattrick, Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg and Matt Booty is when they flopped and have flopped hard. They let people like Pete Hines walk. Their solution to every problem was to throw money at it and fester an online FUD culture with henchmen like Jez Corden, Arthur Gies, Colt Eastwood. I will NEVER root for that to succeed. NEVER. There solution was to buy everybody and I have no doubt that Phil and Co wanted to make Bethesda and Activision exclusive. They have never come CLOSE to getting their money's worth from Bethesda. They haven't touched franchises like Fallout or Elder Scrolls. Fallout 3 and New vegas should have been remastered LONG ago. They had SO much potential with the stuff they owned and they blew it. They had no balls.
Jim Ryan, for all the hate he gets (and I HATE that man) understood what game MS was trying to play and while he didn't stop the acquisitions, he got MS to air a LOT of their dirty laundry and make them stay 3rd party.
XBox tried to be too many things and never got good at one thing.
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Fess
Member
It absolutely matters in the context of saying that all games will be accessed on a different platform. And it matters for those who actually for real consider doing a platform transition. For Xbox to PS, as well as PS to PC. It just ain't happening. Not fully. I've tried it, you end wishing for ports that'll likely never come.
But if you only play new games, or the biggest games in a serie, then great, your PS5 and PC is now your Xbox, and likewise your PC is now your PS5. Sometimes late ports, sometimes day 1, varied results, but you'll get access to the games.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Moving forward you can count on all Xbox games being day 1 on PS5 and PC.
There will be games like GTA6 that don't show up on PC until a year or two down the line.
I'm skeptical of a lot of people moving from say XSX to PS5. I've yet to see any real evidence of that (and I don't think DS2 and Ghost of Yotei are going to be the games that spark this). I think maybe many have moved from X1 to PS5. The next 18-24 months in gaming will probably define the next 5-10 years of gaming.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
I think that is the point. Come up with some really stupid idea and get someone to quote it and now people will click on your site out of sheer whatthefuckism. If people aren't buying games on Xbox because Gamepass has enough for them to be satisfied then that makes sense, but then so does putting the game on gamepass once sales are meh.
Sooner
Member
Oh, ok. If you're talking about old games, sure. But, why would anyone buy a next-generation Xbox console just to play old 360 games?
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ShadowkillXNA
Member
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Depends on how much it costs to port vs how many they expect.
So no, not silly.
And unless it's going through ms store then ms has no say at all what games release on windows.
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dgrdsv
Member
It's not the same. The fact that both consoles are using x86 CPUs and similar GPUs means nothing, the majority of differences come from APIs (which are completely different) and h/w capabilities (which are different enough for consoles to be different h/w targets).
Windows though you are right, if a game is being made for Windows then porting that to Xbox is fairly easy. So it would only make sense to not make an Xbox game if there would be no Windows version either.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
There's so many games I would FOR SURE lose from my library if I went off Xbox hardware.
%.Not to mention Series controllers are literally my favorite game controllers. Ever. And i absolutely detest PS controllers. Particularly the Dual Sense. It's moving in the wrong direction, if anything. Gross.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Such a terrrrrrible take. Yeesh. You have no idea how much impact they've had on console gaming since 2001. Such a ridiculous/ silly comment that misses the mark completely, and has no knowledge of console games history.
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DanielG165
Member
Ahhh, there's that important context that gaming forums don't tend to like!Should be edited into the OP.
Sooner
r:
Oh, ok. If you're talking about old games, sure. But, why would anyone buy a next-generation Xbox console just to play old 360 games?Just as nobody is buying the Xbox now to play old or even new games.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Xbox has one more cycle in it, for sure. PS and Nintendo, eh, maybe 2?
And obviously we all know that in 20, 30 whatever years there won't be proprietary hardware with exclusive games. That format won't be necessary forever. It's just the way things go.
Fess
Member
I think so too but the full transition isn't doable.
I've tried Xbox to PC and I accepted that I need a Xbox for the complete Xbox experience. It's really just the biggest games that gets ported and then there is the delisting and closed studios etc.
I guess there is a small chance that they'll be able to update the Xbox App to play legacy Xbox titles, that would ramp up the library, but I don't see how they can move over the entire library.
And Xbox to PS will be worse no doubt.
So in the end my Series X stays. Even if it's been collecting dust for like a year…
And PS to PC, I've tried that as well. Currently waiting for Stellar Blade, GT7, Demon's Souls and Astrobot to complete my PS5 library. Cool. But what about PS1-PS4? There is like a handful of ports from PS4, otherwise it's a wasteland.
So I still have a dusty Pro on a shelf and have no plans to get rid of it.
Yes I know there are unofficial emulators. But sometimes you just want a serious and convenient plug and play official experience and not some janky bedroom coder app.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I use my Series X all the time, it's my primary console. Switch is usually just for Nintendo games (sometimes indies), but it's ancient of course.
The interesting thing for me is I've never been huge into any first party Xbox IPs, outside of the occasional Halo but I've not played that in ten years+. I love Xbox for the controllers, the back compat, the online experience, Game Pass, and the Play Anywhere. It's for sure my preferred place to play big games like Hogwarts, Jedi Survivor, Monster Hunter, Assassins Creed, replaying the big gems from prior like Witcher 3, Skyrim, Stardew, etc.
I honestly don't see that changing unless im no longer given the option of a new Xbox every 7-8 years. It'll happen someday but, eh not for a long time.
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DanielG165
Member
Yep. There are plenty of games that are solely on Xbox hardware that I care too much about to not have one of their consoles in my house. My Series X sees just as much use as my PC does, perhaps even more during the work week.There's so many games I would FOR SURE lose from my library if I went off Xbox hardware.
Not to mention Series controllers are literally my favorite game controllers. Ever. And i absolutely detest PS controllers. Particularly the Dual Sense. It's moving in the wrong direction, if anything. Gross.
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You think people buy Xbox? You think 3 million last year is a significant figure? Brace yourself for less than 2 million they're selling this year.They aren't? Hmmm. I guess anyone could just post anything regardless of whether it has any basis or not. Interesting time to be alive, for sure.
DrFigs
Member
It's really funny how people used to dismiss valid criticisms of xbox that we've been posting about for years on forums like neogaf, by saying "microsoft is a multibillion dollar company, they know what they're doing, where did you get your business degree, etc". but then other gaming companies in the know are also saying "this is fucking stupid, we don't understand what they're doing either". it's the same situation w/ gamepass. this strategy has been obviously dumb from day 1. it has been a mess for a very long time.
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Its actually a great take. They fuck up everything they touch.
Windows is an absolute shitshow and Linux gaming is growing.
Xbox is an absolute shitshow.
There are so many alternatives to Microsoft products that few would miss them.
Nobody uses their products out of love, but out of necessity
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Microsofts money is in many ways what damaged Xbox. Lack of money forces you to make hard choices and be creative. Money shielded them from all of that.
Fess
Member
I used to play a lot on my Series X. But after building a couch PC there was no reason to power it on for anything new. Everything is on PC now. Gamepass. Day 1. With better visuals and performance. And mods. And free online.
Microsoft only have themselves to blame for how things has evolved. I don't think some of their strategies make any sense at all, not for their console business. But I'm thankful that they're there when it's beneficial for myself. Like Gamepass. I save sooo much money on it right now.
But BC… Yeah, that's an area where it's ahead of PC for sure.
I plan to skip both Xbox and PS next gen for as long as possible. But staying away for real would lead to salt and crankiness, eventually they'll be needed and then I'll be there, but no day 1 purchase. (Edit: I just realize that I said this at the end of last generation as well… So, wish me luck on actually doing what I say I plan to do this time! lol)
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Like I said, don't think that Sony will pick up many XSX owners but given that there are still 30 million Xbox users unaccounted for and maybe some Xbox series s owners, Sony could increase their TAM by over 30 million units if they play their cards right. That puts them into the 150 million area, which would be wild for a system that has really been quite expensive most of its life cycle.
If Sony is smart they won't raise prices in the US until the Xbox is no longer viable at retail.
neocycle
Member
To hell with them. They turned gaming into work with achievements, added online paywalls and bought and demolished game companies and franchises. There is not a single positive thing that comes to my mind when I think about Microsoft.
neocycle
Member
You don't realise how bad you have it. Buy a PS5 now and thank me later.
Fess
Member
Both Sony and Microsoft can gain a lot from the current industry changes.
MS could in theory have a 75+ million bigger audience for their games, more people playing, talking, streaming, rating, voting than ever before.
And as you say Sony could have a new bigger than ever audience too.
But we'll see what happens. I think you said earlier that the next couple years will show where the industry is heading. I agree completely. By 2027 we should have a pretty clear picture to go on for predicting possibly the next decade or two.
Hardware, software, cloud, launchers, accounts, cross play/purchases/saves, hybrid devices, OSes, PC focus, cost, Moores law etc etc etc
So much could change.
Or nothing at all…
I lived through the birth and death of Commodore and by the end fans had moved away elsewhere in a slow merge type of way in all directions. I can see the same happening to Xbox fans if Microsoft truly back out of hardware completely. Some will move to PC, others to PlayStation, some to Nintendo. SEGA was a similar scenario. Where are those fans now? Everywhere.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
To get the hardware to survive, they need to relaunch Xbox as a pc in a console format or something similar, as there is literally no reason to buy one as of now.
A pc as a console would be something I'd get, but I see no reason why Microsoft would do this as they wouldn't be able to make it a walled garden.
A pc as a console would be something I'd get, but I see no reason why Microsoft would do this as they wouldn't be able to make it a walled garden.
Badlucktroll
Member
as xbox rides off into the sunset whilst we endure this weird crap we must now take the time to ponder and reflect
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
There are hot takes and then there is whatever delusional rant this is.
3 trillion dollar company that does nothing useful? You think people and companies spend $200 billion a year on MS stuff because they are useless?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Because they have a fucking monopoly you genius.
Still that doesn't mean their products aren't shit.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
How can they have a monopoly if there are so many alternatives to their products that nobody would miss them?