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[Chaos2Frozen]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39416804

Violence in Paris over the police killing of a Chinese man has left three police officers injured with at least 35 people detained.

Demonstrators had gathered outside a police station on Monday to pay homage to the dead man.

His family denies he attacked an officer with scissors as they responded to reports of a domestic dispute.

A French inquiry is under way. China has made a complaint and is calling for its nationals to be protected.

Police say he attacked an officer with a sharp object as soon as he came to the door and the officer was only saved by his bullet-proof vest. Another officer then shot him dead.

But the family's lawyer says it "totally disputes" this account.

One of the man's daughters told French media that her father, who spoke little French, had gone to the door holding a pair of scissors he had been using to prepare fish.

"They smashed the door in, the shot went off and my father ended up on the floor," she told Le Parisien newspaper (in French).

China's intervention is unusual, says the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris. The government in Beijing has spoken out in the past about the threat to Chinese tourists in Paris from criminal gangs but this is the first time it has implicitly criticised an action by French police.

Estimated at more than 600,000 people, France's Chinese community is said to be Europe's largest.

The police watchdog is due to interview the family later on Tuesday.

At least 150 people took part in Monday's protest, some shouting "murderers!" at baton-wielding police.

There were accusations of police brutality last month, after a young black man accused police of sodomising him with a truncheon. The police officer in question says any injury inflicted was accidental and an investigation is under way.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Is France still under a state of emergency?

 

[CanUKlehead]

Sad thing is, in my head, I'm thinking if we replaced 'Chinese' with 'Arabic', the slant of the story would be terrorist attack somehow

 

[SephiZack]

The police's side of the story doesn't make much sense, why would the man stab a policeman as soon as he came to the door? It true there would be something missing in the story

 

[LinLeigh]

The Chinese are seen like a perfect example of integration in most of Europe. Hopefully their reputation will make people see that France does have some huge issues.

Issues that aren't as simple as people not liking the West.

 

[capitalCORN]

Is France still under a state of emergency?

Quite yes.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The police's side of the story doesn't make much sense, why would the man stab a policeman as soon as he came to the door? It true there would be something missing in the story

In the same way a handcuffed black man 'accidentally' falls on a truncheon. Repeatedly.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

The Chinese are seen like a perfect example of integration in most of Europe. Hopefully their reputation will make people see that France does have some huge issues.

Issues that aren't as simple as people not liking the West.

The problem is now, that the Chinese government kinda incites hate (similar to the Lotte incident).
There are also some Chinese that call for private protection by the police (also for undocumented Chinese, which, many dont know, also live in Europe).

The chinese social media is full of hate right now because of that.

 

[sfedai0]

This sounds right at home in the US. Shoot first, ask questions later.

 

[HolyCheck]

Lets all remember that this thread is not about the US.

Not every country hates their police.

Some dodgy shit may have happened.

 

[Alx]

The police's side of the story doesn't make much sense, why would the man stab a policeman as soon as he came to the door? It true there would be something missing in the story

The policemen were in plain clothes, and the man apparently didn't speak French. Maybe he thought they were home invaders.
There are major conflicts in both sides of the story that the investigation should easily make clear anyway, the police says he wounded one of them with scissors when the family says he never did. It shouldn't be too hard to check for the wound and for blood on the scissors.

 

[Killer Queen]

Man what's going on in Paris.

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

The guy was killed in front of his family, including his three young children. That's messed up. Shoot first...ask questions later. Fits right in with policing in the US.

I've read the Chinese community in France has had beef with the police before because they've been repeatedly victimized by crimes and the police essentially could care less, putting no effort in catching the perpetrators or providing additional security in their communities. This killing must have been a flash point for the underlying tension that was building up, leading to these massive protests.

 

[Surface of Me]

I thought bullet proof vests dont prevent stabbings? If so that is a big hole in the police's story.

 

[capitalCORN]

The policemen were in plain clothes, and the man apparently didn't speak French. Maybe he thought they were home invaders.
There are major conflicts in both sides of the story that the investigation should easily make clear anyway, the police says he wounded one of them with scissors when the family says he never did. It shouldn't be too hard to check for the wound and for blood on the scissors.

But the story says the cop was saved by body armour. How can they be plainclothed?

 

[Joni]

I thought bullet proof vests dont prevent stabbings? If so that is a big hole in the police's story.

It should be good enough to stop a scissor attack.

But the story says the cop was saved by body armour. How can they be plainclothed?

Combination of plain clothes with a vest over or under a sweater.

 

[capitalCORN]

Combination of plain clothes with a vest over or under a sweater.

But why did they show up at his door? If there was an altercation, why show up plain clothed?

 

[Joni]

Looked at some French languaged sources. This can't be too difficult to check out. According to Le Parisien the cop was wounded and the dude was known for family violence. If the cop is wounded, it is difficult to deny what happened.
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...llegue-tue-l-agresseur-26-03-2017-6798330.php

But why did they show up at his door? If there was an altercation, why show up plain clothed?

They were the 'anti-crime' brigade so it were probably not uniformed cops walking out outside all the time.

 

[Tiberius]

But why did they show up at his door? If there was an altercation, why show up plain clothed?

The BAC which is a special police force is in plain clothes with an orange police armband

Like here

Apparently the chinese guy was known for psychiatric problems (threw a pc tower through the window in the street)

 

[Oreiller]

I've read the Chinese community in France has had beef with the police before because they've been repeatedly victimized by crimes and the police essentially could care less, putting no effort in catching the perpetrators or providing additional security in their communities. This killing must have been a flash point for the underlying tension that was building up, leading to these massive protests.

Yeah, basically. Even worse, none of the anti-racism organizations have done much for the asian community because they don't condone their calls for more security. This whole situation is a mess.

 

[Alx]

In related news, the "riots" and associated violence seem to be fueled by the Chinese mafia.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justic...s-la-mort-de-shaoyao-liu_5103569_1653578.html

Also according to the neighbours the victim was known to be mentally unstable and violent.
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...yao_5102597_3224.html?xtmc=shaoyao_liu&xtcr=4

There are always several sides to a single story. That's why there are investigations.

 

[teepo]

isn't it also a common scam in these communities for people to show up at your door step claiming to be plain clothed cops?

 

[nampad]

I can believe that the police is in the wrong here but having China meddling in other nations issues is unacceptable.

 

[capitalCORN]

I can believe that the police is in the wring here but having China meddling in other nations issues is unacceptable.

You're way late on that front.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I can believe that the police is in the wrong here but having China meddling in other nations issues is unacceptable.

Countries have been sticking their noses in each other business for centuries and for this particular case it's justified as it's their people being harmed right now.

 

[nampad]

You're way late on that front.

So just because we are late we should accept the bullshit China is doing worldwide on a daily basis?

 

[capitalCORN]

So just because we are late we should accept the bullshit China is doing worldwide on a daily basis?

Let's not assume for a second that the west hasn't had it's finger up the world's ass in eternity now. They're not calling for violence,they're asking for police accountability. We'll save defcon one when they're tampering elections.

 

[Keasar]

In related news, the "riots" and associated violence seem to be fueled by the Chinese mafia.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justic...s-la-mort-de-shaoyao-liu_5103569_1653578.html

Also according to the neighbours the victim was known to be mentally unstable and violent.
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...yao_5102597_3224.html?xtmc=shaoyao_liu&xtcr=4

There are always several sides to a single story. That's why there are investigations.

Reminds me of what happened here in Sweden a few weeks ago when there was a riot after a drug dealer arrest, it being said that the riot was most likely fueled by local gangs trying to intervene considering how small and localized (one parking lot of around 30-50 people) that riot was.

 

[Kin5290]

The police's side of the story doesn't make much sense, why would the man stab a policeman as soon as he came to the door? It true there would be something missing in the story

Apparently the cops were called there to a domestic disputes, and people in those kinds of calls are known to attack each other or the police with little to no warning. Those kinds of situations are pretty damn unpredictable.

This situations seems like it'd be easy to clean up. Just examine the cop's vest for damage. The dead man's family's explanation makes zero sense however. Why would you ever get up while carrying scissors to get the door?

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Either way shooting someone dead seems a bit excessive. Surely the police are capable of incapacitating civilian armed with friggin' scissors, especially if they knew he had mental problems? I dunno, seems like a messed up situation in general.

 

[jellies_two]

I notice the social media putin trolls aren't very interested in this story because it doesn't fit their narrative. If it was muslim migrants it would be plastered wall to wall, and taken up by all the white nationalist types too.

 

[Drazgul]

Either way shooting someone dead seems a bit excessive. Surely the police are capable of incapacitating civilian armed with friggin' scissors, especially if they knew he had mental problems? I dunno, seems like a messed up situation in general.

It's always easy to say that afterwards but like it says in the article: "Police say he attacked an officer with a sharp object as soon as he came to the door and the officer was only saved by his bullet-proof vest. Another officer then shot him dead."

It's not like they just shot the guy, he attacked first and the second officer's instinct (rightly so, as per their training) was to protect his fellow officer. Police aren't trained to shoot only to wound, they'll always go for center mass because it's the most likely shot. Police training doesn't make them into olympian-level marksmen or master hand-to-hand combatants, so they won't take their chances with some Jason Bourne or Liam Neeson type moves.

And fwiw I'm not defending the shooting as such, just that a split-second snap decision like that is what they've trained for.

 

[SephiZack]

Well I knew there was something missing in the BBC news. The man having psychiatric problems explain many things.

And the riot with people speaking against violence while hurting policemen and burning a car sounds even more hypocritical now.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I notice the social media putin trolls aren't very interested in this story because it doesn't fit their narrative. If it was muslim migrants it would be plastered wall to wall, and taken up by all the white nationalist types too.

Honestly I don't see why they would hold back, I can't imagine Russian sympathizers have much love for the Chinese.

 

[capitalCORN]

Honestly I don't see why they would hold back, I can't imagine Russian sympathizers have much love for the Chinese.

Not as dangerous to the common man as a 'brown guy'.

 

[Blablurn]

Unforunate timing but...

Man with mental disease injures French man in Shanghai

 

[Alienfan]

Why aren't police officers required to have cameras on them at all times?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Looked at some French languaged sources. This can't be too difficult to check out. According to Le Parisien the cop was wounded and the dude was known for family violence. If the cop is wounded, it is difficult to deny what happened.
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...llegue-tue-l-agresseur-26-03-2017-6798330.php

Even then though, are the police so poorly trained that they need to shoot to kill when a guy has a pair of fucking scissors? I'd expect them to be better trained than that.

 

[yananana]

Why aren't police officers required to have cameras on them at all times?

It's still under experimentation in some sensitive areas.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...ers-obligatoires-dans-les-zones-sensibles.php

 

[Alx]

It wouldn't apply to plainclothes men anyway, since their whole purpose is to look like regular guys. Can't do that with a camera on your chest.

By the way it's worth mentioning that apart from the shady acts of violence mentioned in the OP, there are also peaceful (and apparently legit) demonstrations of protest from the Chinese community in Paris. It's not all riot and tear gas.

 

[Baleoce]

Why aren't police officers required to have cameras on them at all times?

It just seems like a given to me. Not only would it hold them to account, but in general for a lot of cases that go to trial it would help the justice system out immensely in adding additional perspectives and context.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Why aren't police officers required to have cameras on them at all times?

Plain clothes officers wouldn't be so undercover with a GoPro strapped to their chest. Also, I imagine there's an aspect of sensitivity involved in it. Maybe a domestic violence victim or sexual assault victim would feel less comfortable with a camera trained on them etc? I'm not sure, just sharing possible ideas, but I do in general advocate for body cameras to be available to general duties officers though.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Seems like there is info missing from this story. Disappointing but expected that so many people immediately assume French cops are exactly like American ones.

 

[Showaddy]

Seems like there is info missing from this story. Disappointing but expected that so many people immediately assume French cops are exactly like American ones.

Well it wasn't long ago there were nationwide protests in France after an officer raped a man with a baton. People are going to assume the worst.

 

[Lkr]

They shot him? I didn't realize French police were packing tbh

 

[fireflame]

I live in France and I would say people here do not have hostility towards Chinese people, in fact, it may be the opposite. Chinese and Japanese culture fascinate people and we respect Chinese as they are known as hard workers. What is more debated is the quality of factory products they sell, like toys,etc , because of economical competition, but otherwise we appreciate them(and tbh i would be happy to date a chinese or japanese woman one day).

 

[azyless]

Really doesn't seem that clear cut :

Les trois fonctionnaires de la brigade anti-criminalité (BAC) déployés sur place ont été auditionnés par l'Inspection générale de la police nationale (IGPN), la "police des polices". Selon les informations de franceinfo, ils ont expliqué avoir répondu à l'appel d'un voisin. Ce dernier aurait contacté la police après avoir "vu un homme déambuler dans les parties communes de son immeuble avec ce qui ressemblait à un couteau ou une arme blanche".

À leur arrivée, les policiers disent avoir vu la future victime les invectiver depuis son balcon. Ils ont également entendu des cris et des hurlements provenant de l'appartement, situé au sixième étage. Ils ont donc forcé la porte du logement et sont entrés, tombant sur l'homme. Celui-ci se serait jeté, armé d'un ciseau de 25 centimètres de longueur, sur le premier policier. Protégé par son gilet pare-balles, il a été seulement touché au niveau de l'aisselle et s'est vu prescrire trois jours d'incapacité temporaire de travail (ITT). "Il me plante, il me plante !" aurait-il lancé. Le deuxième policier a aussitôt fait usage de son arme, blessant mortellement l'homme.

Basically their version is that they heard screams coming from the appartment so they forced the door open and the man attacked one of them with large scissors (25 centimeters long can do some damage I imagine, it wasn't just regular small scissors). It says the cop was wounded and got 3 days off work so it should be easy enough to verify.

I'm not sure why they were carrying lethal weapons though, an electroshock weapon should be enough for these sort of things.

 

[Violet_0]

I live in France and I would say people here do not have hostility towards Chinese people, in fact, it may be the opposite. Chinese and Japanese culture fascinate people and we respect Chinese as they are known as hard workers. What is more debated is the quality of factory products they sell, like toys,etc , because of economical competition, but otherwise we appreciate them(and tbh i would be happy to date a chinese or japanese woman one day).

on the (German) news they said that the Chinese are targeted by "Arab" street criminals because they are assumed to have money and are expected to not put up a fight or get the police involved. How much of that is true, I don't know

 

[Alx]

Well it's a known fact that Asian shop owners commonly deal with large amounts of cash that they carry with them, so it's no big surprise that they become a primary target for thieves. Don't know about their relationship with the police though.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

From my experience too hostility towards chinese is rare in western europe in general. The only thing I can think about is the negative attitude towards chinese tourists in some of the big vacation spots.