Depends on which nation is firing the nuke. Multi warheads can be in the low tens of kilotons all the way upto 400 plus. Then you have the fact that there can be a lot of warheads on missile anywhere from 2-3 all the way up to a dozen or more. There's a reason NATO nicknamed one of the russian missiles as Satan...
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BBC: Tremor is detected in North Korea (up: nuclear test conducted)
- Thread starter mid83
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Depends on which nation is firing the nuke. Multi warheads can be in the low tens of kilotons all the way upto 400 plus. Then you have the fact that there can be a lot of warheads on missile anywhere from 2-3 all the way up to a dozen or more. There's a reason NATO nicknamed one of the russian missiles as Satan...
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Terrorists can't do anything with nuclear technology. You think ISIS can engage in weapons-grade enrichment when it can barely even hold territory? At most, North Korea could sell material for a dirty bomb, but... that's a market that already exists. Chechen terrorists attempted to use a dirty bomb in 1995.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Agreed.
America can chill the fuck out. Nk ain't nuking anyone as long as they aren't attacked first.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
It leads to some amazing pics as well
MIRV test.
That's incredible. Source for the photo?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
heard of a cluster bomb before?
Not what that specific image was showing though.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
It leads to some amazing pics as well
MIRV test.
Looks like right before the world ends
It's called 'Peacekeeper'
So each of those warheads was two to three times as powerful as the one NK detonated today.
More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper
PdotMichael
Banned
Falkland wasn't part of the NATO covered area, so article 5 wasn't relevant back then. It's disturbing to see that people don't have a clue about basic geopolitics and military alliances but are suddenly experts for East Asian.
It leads to some amazing pics as well
MIRV test.
New EVA movie viral marketing?
On topic: I wouldn't want to be in the place of the people in charge, because this seems like a mess with no "least bad" solution.
SmackDaddy
Member
Damn, learning about these technologies is frightening and awesome. So much destructive potential. End of the world is gonna be scary and beautiful D:
superdeluxe
Member
Regime collapse and a humanitarian disaster is the best case scenario it feels like
True enough. I've been poking and prodding around Wikipedia's stuff on EMPs. Fascinating stuff.
jellies_two
Member
I don't think america can afford a war.
It can't even afford a wall.
If USA breaks north korea and damages south korea you think it can wash its hands and say "job well done"? China would have every right to say ok we're applying a punitive tax to recover the immense costs of dealing with the humanitarian crisis on our border that we told you not to trigger.
American stock and bond markets would collapse and the economy would sink into deep recession forcing USA to beg the holders of american debt what they want in return for financial help. That's if the rest of the world was in any position to help at all.
Compare that scenario to inviting NK to shoot first, inviting retaliation that had global backing.
It can't even afford a wall.
If USA breaks north korea and damages south korea you think it can wash its hands and say "job well done"? China would have every right to say ok we're applying a punitive tax to recover the immense costs of dealing with the humanitarian crisis on our border that we told you not to trigger.
American stock and bond markets would collapse and the economy would sink into deep recession forcing USA to beg the holders of american debt what they want in return for financial help. That's if the rest of the world was in any position to help at all.
Compare that scenario to inviting NK to shoot first, inviting retaliation that had global backing.
Coriolanus
Banned
that's... not how it works.
not that the war wouldn't be terrible for the economy. it most certainly would, but that's not how being a US creditor works. At all.
jellies_two
Member
America has a huge national debt, and needs to service it, it needs the faith of international bond holders to buy the government debt at cheap rates. If it bumbles around in korea and leaves a total mess, tanks its own stock market and as interest rates go up screws the consumer credit it has little bargaining power left.
Where that leads I don't know, but it wouldn't be pretty.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Between North Korea, the fires and extreme heat of California, the massive ice cap split, and our current president for the next 3 to 7 years I gotta say things are a bit worrying me.
Edit:
Edit:
I'm fully convinced he's trying to end the USA.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Woah i didn't knew Brazil has a business relationship with NK
Hari Seldon
Member
I'm increasingly convinced that the only way to peacefully draw this down is to punish China economically. They talk a good game but don't do a damn thing about fatass Kim.
What on earth are France and Germany trading with NK?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You mean the country that makes all your electronics and probably half of everything sold on Amazon and Walmart.
Indeed if we rattle the nation that provides us with politically correct slave labour then we won't have nice things anymore, not unless you're rich anyway.
Champagne and BMWs?
It's a perfect foundation for full blown facism and any remaining American wealth and resources to be consolidated by those who seek the destruction of pax America.
Actually no, I am saying that there is no real argument on the legal basis because UK never tried to invoke it, probably because they believe they couldn't. We can all speculate, but chances are, its possible that they could of invoked it and nations would help regardless of the whether it legally constitutes it.
gutter_trash
Banned
harriet the spy
Member
At the same time most if those countries would instantly stop trading with NK if the alternative was a/ not trading with the US b/ contributing to global economic collapse.
Probably even China would.
Its interesting in a way - if there was a credible way to show they were ready to do it - it would probably work. Like an economic nuke / MAD.
Article 5 says that NATO promises to take "such action as it deems necessary", that could be anything from nuclear war to a stiff diplomatic protest.
Exactly what I was saying, its not like NATO isn't going to help an allied nation under attack just because the spot they were attacked doesn't technically fit into it's jurisdiction.
Insane Metal
Member
Fucking hell. This is disgusting. And saddening.120 kiloton estimated yield
https://www.norsar.no/press/latest-press-release/archive/large-nuclear-test-in-north-korea-on-3-september-2017-article1534-984.html
for context:
There's no way this will end well. Kim must be racing against the clock to make more and more powerful bombs.
Japan and south korea have missile defense systems and so do ourwarships that would be over there
They are nowhere close to perfect and missiles aren't even needed to kill a shit load of people in Seoul.
I like to believe this, but why can't a nuclear device be delivered into a major city via some kind of suicide van?
Can't do it without killing millions of innocent people.
It leads to some amazing pics as well
MIRV test.
holy shi
We dont have to nuke them.
Surely thwirs covert actions.
Is there any estimates how many deaths a ground war would be?
Ffs Chile. Why Bachelet?
You're suggesting we kill millions of people with nuclear arms to prevent millions of people being killed by nuclear arms
Not talking about NK casualties. That's how many people NK could kill in South Korea, Japan and the US before they're wiped out.
Likely millions in a ground war on both sides. The best case scenarios I've seen are in the hundreds of thousands and that's if every happy assumption is correct.
Hard to say without knowing who would be involved. I don't want to speculate on the sheer casualties that would result - either from combat or the aftermath. Any impact would be felt by not just the Peninsula but other neighboring nations.
The question becomes with say special forces. How many do you have to kill and who and when can we stop. Say we take Kim out and some of his closest power people. What happens if doing so we get a crazy old General who still remembers the Korean war and decides to authorize the usage of weapons and go endgame.
Covert Ops could open a Pandora box with elements we have no idea on versus the pudgy steam playing fuck we know now.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Again, they don't need North Korea for this. You could construct a Hiroshima-level bomb using about 16kg pounds of uranium; it'd be easier just to target Western sources of uranium in a few heists than ship it from North Korea to whichever country the terrorists wanted to bomb. I also think that if North Korea did it, it would still trigger immediate retaliation - it's just bomb-via-terrorist instead of bomb-via-ICM; North Korea was still a nuclear aggressor. So I don't think this is likely.
More worrying is state collapse. For example, North Korea appeared to have collaborated with the Assad regime in the past, which is now obviously an incredibly unstable region.
Bitch Pudding
Member
In Germany's case, mainly medicine products. If I remember correctly the total trade volume between them is below 5 million $ a year, which is basically nothing.
PdotMichael
Banned
There is no legal base for article 5. They could still asked for help, in fact the USA supported the UK in that conflict, but this was outside of the NATO. Article 6 was written exactly for such cases that some overseas conflicts doesn't become a case for the NATO.
Luschient
Member
Read this today and found it interesting.
North Korea mountain used as nuclear test site at risk of collapsing, Chinese scientist says
Wonder if China would be more likely to step in if there's a real danger of radiation coming across their border from NK?
North Korea mountain used as nuclear test site at risk of collapsing, Chinese scientist says
Wonder if China would be more likely to step in if there's a real danger of radiation coming across their border from NK?
BigJonsson
Member
Here we go again?
Ankit Panda‏Verified account @nktpnd
Int'l Seismological Center reports a Mb 6.5 seismic event at 03:30UTC @ #NorthKorea's nuclear test site http://www.isc.ac.uk/cgi-bin/web-db-v4?event_id=610963277&out_format=IMS1.0&request=COMPREHENSIVE
11:02 PM - 8 Sep 2017
Ankit Panda‏Verified account @nktpnd
Int'l Seismological Center reports a Mb 6.5 seismic event at 03:30UTC @ #NorthKorea's nuclear test site http://www.isc.ac.uk/cgi-bin/web-db-v4?event_id=610963277&out_format=IMS1.0&request=COMPREHENSIVE
11:02 PM - 8 Sep 2017