Vicetrailia
Banned
Being self-centered does that.
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Being white is a privilege, says this PSA.
- Thread starter ChiTownBuffalo
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Being self-centered does that.
And frankly not nearly as much ground has been made up as people want to believe:
"Recent data shows, though, that much of black progress is a myth. In many respects, African-Americans are doing no better than they were when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and uprisings swept inner cities across America. Nearly a quarter of African-Americans live below the poverty line today, approximately the same percentage as in 1968. The black child poverty rate is actually higher now than it was then. Unemployment rates in black communities rival those in Third World countries. And that's with affirmative action!
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate."
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate."
(link to the article in the linked post)
uh yeah.. This thread is a circle jerking thread of jerking hate. It benefits no one and has accomplished nothing. There is no discussion going on.. just beliefs being spit out back and forth and people feeling they are of a higher conscience... Fucking please.
I've been living race blind for 44 fucking years. Get the fuck over yourselves.
Amibguous Cad
Member
Let's put it this way: would your situation be better, worse, or about the same if you were also black?
I'm not sure why people take pointing out one privilege as a denial of all other forms of privilege. Obviously there's more than one axis on which this operates. Pointing out that some, even many whites are not privileged in other respects does not take away their privilege with respect to their race.
Why do you think that's what they're going for? I didn't feel that way watching the ad at all. Or for any social justice movements, to be honest. I take it as a good faith effort to explain how my experience differs from other people's, so I can know how to avoid perpetuating those injustices.
kame-sennin
Member
You can't have oppression without corresponding privilege.
Do you not see my point? I gave you one example in one city of how a first generation European immigrant might experience privilege. Dismissing it by saying 'I don't live in that city' is avoiding the actual point. There are numerous examples of privilege that does not extend from wealth gained during the 19th century. And racial profiling is not limited to NYC.
Check valve
Neo Member
The only privileges I've seen mentioned in this thread are less harsh sentencing and searching. I follow the law and don't commit illegal crimes. I've worked hard for my spot in life and it's very degrading when people point the race card as if being white is an auto-win. Now, I know that's what not what the majority of this thread is implying, however the same can't be said for the public in my vicinity.
Dude Abides
Banned
Well, one of the privileges of being privileged is that it allows you to easily ignore privilege.
Anyway, the point I was making is that however your particular situation may have been, it doesn't discredit the notion of white privilege as a social phenomenon. As someone who once bristled at the notion of white privilege along lines similar to those you're expressing here, I found it important to understand that the concept doesn't necessarily imply that every single white person has the world handed to them on a silver platter.
theignoramus
Member
UrokeJoe
Banned
(Today, 08:38 PM)
lol.
anyway, this is demonstrably false. the last few pages have been loaded with evidence that you, for whatever reason, chose not to see.
yet you have the nerve to tell us to get the fuck over ourselves, as if this just some disney myth we've conjured up in our heads.
I mean jesus christ, racial profiling is a belief now? an opinion not based in fact?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
The term white privilege mostly applies to Europeans from British or Welsh stock with a history of being in the states..
If your last name is Wilson or some obivous "American" name vs "Cervenka" then you might not see that privilege.
blacks being underprivileged is true as well...
But really it is a balance of the two..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Very well said
Red_Ragnarok
Banned
But youre just considering whites and blacks, what about Indians and North East Asians and South East Asians. When I posted before about Asians not getting harassed by police, and not having large incarceration rates, people replied to me and said that Asians have different types of problems instead like being considered outsiders while only whites get the status of true Americans. Now Im not arguing that this is false, I just believe that it is a problem that will happen to minorities anywhere.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Asians do get harassed on the west coast where they fit a certain stereotype of Asian bangers..
As well as the brown...
Hm.
I listed some other advantages that come from living in a society that privileges whiteness, but what about about, say, not having your money stolen from you by the police? The two pertinent sections here are "Finders Keepers" and "The Shakedown."
And few excerpts from those two sections:
"Property or cash could be seized based on mere suspicion of illegal drug activity, and the seizure could occur without notice or hearing, upon an ex parte showing of mere probable cause that the property had somehow been "involved" in a crime. The probable cause showing could be based on nothing more than hearsay, innuendo, or even the paid, self-serving testimony of someone with interests clearly adverse to the property owner. Neither the owner of the property nor anyone else need be charged with a crime. [...]
According to a report commissioned by the Department of Justice, between 1988 and 1992 alone, Byrne-funded drug task forces seized over $1 billion in assets. [...]
In United States v Reese, for example, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals described a drug task force completely corrupted by its dependence on federal drug money. Operating as a separate unit within the Oakland Housing Authority, the task force behaved, in the words of one officer, "more or less like a wolfpack," driving up in police vehicles and taking "anything and everything we saw on the street corner." [...]
Journalists and investigators have documented numerous other instances in which police departments have engaged in illegal shakedowns, searches, and threats in search of forfeitable property and cash. In Florida, reporters reviewed nearly one thousand videotapes of highway traffic stops and found that police had used traffic violations as an excuse - or pretext - to confiscate "tens of thousands of dollars from motorists against whom there [was] no evidence of wrongdoing," frequently taking money without filing criminal charges."
According to a report commissioned by the Department of Justice, between 1988 and 1992 alone, Byrne-funded drug task forces seized over $1 billion in assets. [...]
In United States v Reese, for example, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals described a drug task force completely corrupted by its dependence on federal drug money. Operating as a separate unit within the Oakland Housing Authority, the task force behaved, in the words of one officer, "more or less like a wolfpack," driving up in police vehicles and taking "anything and everything we saw on the street corner." [...]
Journalists and investigators have documented numerous other instances in which police departments have engaged in illegal shakedowns, searches, and threats in search of forfeitable property and cash. In Florida, reporters reviewed nearly one thousand videotapes of highway traffic stops and found that police had used traffic violations as an excuse - or pretext - to confiscate "tens of thousands of dollars from motorists against whom there [was] no evidence of wrongdoing," frequently taking money without filing criminal charges."
And this was overwhelmingly happening to poorer black people. It was only after these same laws were used to go after rich white men - one of whom died in a raid on his ranch in search of marijuana (none was found) and the other who had his Lear jet confiscated on the basis that it had unknowingly transmitted a drug dealer - that outrage was sufficient for any changes to be made.
empty vessel
Member
If you figure this out, you will be the new Jesus.
Red_Ragnarok
Banned
But I think the incarceration rates I found earlier showed that Asians had disproportionally low rates. What about whites who act the same way, they don't get harassed?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I don't know if they have "wigger" stats..
Also I would like to know the stats of people they hand over to immigration to be deported.. I don't think they get added to the incarceration stats..
So basically you read like the last page and then responded without giving it any real thought (and obviously zero research into the issue) because the idea that you might be privileged offended you. Cool beans.
Instead of getting so defensive, why don't some of you actually open your ears and hear what the other side is trying to say?
There is truth in "white privilege." There is a lot of benefits to being the "same" as the people in power.
I can only really speak for America, but in this country, the vast majority of people with "power" or in positions of power, are white men.
They tend to distribute this power among themselves, and people like themselves.
There is a lot of truth to the anecdote of the two men that go to a job interview. One is black, the other is white. They both have the same degree and skill set. Both have the same amount of experience at the job. They are both equal. And yet, the white male will walk away with the job, especially if the interviewer is white as well. The same can also be said for the black male if the interviewer happens to be black, but it is rare that black men are running fortune 500 companies and bringing in billions, or in a position to hire anybody.
For America, there is an undeniable history of discrimination against blacks. It's naive, and, to be honest, rather ignorant to assume that that history ended in some nebulous time period between the end of the Civil War in the late 1800s, and the end of the Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s.
Think about that long and hard; The Civil Rights movement ended barely 65 years ago. That's barely a generation.
There was a lot of hatred and bigotry during that time period that minorities fought to overcome. We weren't allowed to vote. We weren't allowed to marry out of our race. We weren't allowed to eat in certain restaurants, use certain water fountains, or use certain restrooms. My mother is 62 years old, and she lived through that. Been harassed and assaulted by police officers. This isn't something that happened centuries ago that black people just won't let go of.
There is still an active amount of people in politics that are as old or older than my mom, who actually have a say in how this country functions/develops. Those same people that didn't want blacks to integrate with whites are still around today. They are the same people that are trying to actively keep gays from being allowed to marry, or actively trying to keep women from having a say in what they do with their bodies.
Blacks are still being looked at as dangerous, untrustworthy, criminals, gangbangers. Mainstream media hasn't ever stopped beating on that drum. Instead of being as overtly racist as they were in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, they have gone into character assassination. Destroy the culture's reputation, and the work is done for them.
Blacks get followed around markets while shopping, assumed to be a fan of rap/hip hop culture, assumed that rap/hip hop culture is the same as thug/gangster culture. Educated blacks that have a desire to better themselves are assumed to be the exception to the rule, when, in truth, there is a very small group of blacks that fit that stereotypical "gangsta" persona you see in TV 99% of the time. It's gotten so bad, that blacks themselves have grown suspicious of their own people, and accept cultural stereotypes about them as fact (see any Tyler Perry movie..., I'm only partially joking).
When there is a white character on television, for example, that suffers from a drug problem, has an aggressive, abusive streak, or is a killer thug or gangster, people just assume that he is the exception to the rule. "Why, he's an individual who's on the wrong side of good." A black character on television, that suffers from a drug problem, has an aggresive, abusive streak, or is a killer thug or gangster, is just "par for the course. You grow corn, you get corn." It's expected of us to be trouble-makers and thugs, and we are treated accordingly.
When I bring up white privilege, I don't do so to make white people feel bad. Me and my wife talk about this sort of thing all the time (she is white, and I am black). I mention it because it is a very true thing in America.
We all have obstacles in our path while going through life, but in America, blacks have had some significant obstacles placed in theirs, due to nothing more than a history of bigotry and racism. We fought for our freedom and rights, but many white Americans were not happy about that, and some of them shifted to a passive aggressive way of keeping that discrimination alive.
Since setting foot in America, blacks have been trying to fight a negative perception of us. It's been damn near 300 years, but so many non blacks seem to be just as afraid of us as they were back when we were slaves. It's a shame.
I can empathize with what women and the LGBT community are going through, because blacks have been down that path as well. Don't worry, your time will come, but be prepared to keep that fight for your rights and cultural perception changes. We've been fighting for generations, and some people just don't seem to want to let it go.
Please keep in mind that not all white people share the same views of the bigots that make life difficult for minorities (not just blacks, though I am speaking from the only perspective I know of: the black perspective), it's just that they happen to benefit from being in the same nationality as those bigots.
I certainly don't hold any grudges, but I'm not going to shrug my shoulders, or bury my head in the sand and pretend that that sort of thing isn't going on. That's not helping anybody.
There is truth in "white privilege." There is a lot of benefits to being the "same" as the people in power.
I can only really speak for America, but in this country, the vast majority of people with "power" or in positions of power, are white men.
They tend to distribute this power among themselves, and people like themselves.
There is a lot of truth to the anecdote of the two men that go to a job interview. One is black, the other is white. They both have the same degree and skill set. Both have the same amount of experience at the job. They are both equal. And yet, the white male will walk away with the job, especially if the interviewer is white as well. The same can also be said for the black male if the interviewer happens to be black, but it is rare that black men are running fortune 500 companies and bringing in billions, or in a position to hire anybody.
For America, there is an undeniable history of discrimination against blacks. It's naive, and, to be honest, rather ignorant to assume that that history ended in some nebulous time period between the end of the Civil War in the late 1800s, and the end of the Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s.
Think about that long and hard; The Civil Rights movement ended barely 65 years ago. That's barely a generation.
There was a lot of hatred and bigotry during that time period that minorities fought to overcome. We weren't allowed to vote. We weren't allowed to marry out of our race. We weren't allowed to eat in certain restaurants, use certain water fountains, or use certain restrooms. My mother is 62 years old, and she lived through that. Been harassed and assaulted by police officers. This isn't something that happened centuries ago that black people just won't let go of.
There is still an active amount of people in politics that are as old or older than my mom, who actually have a say in how this country functions/develops. Those same people that didn't want blacks to integrate with whites are still around today. They are the same people that are trying to actively keep gays from being allowed to marry, or actively trying to keep women from having a say in what they do with their bodies.
Blacks are still being looked at as dangerous, untrustworthy, criminals, gangbangers. Mainstream media hasn't ever stopped beating on that drum. Instead of being as overtly racist as they were in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, they have gone into character assassination. Destroy the culture's reputation, and the work is done for them.
Blacks get followed around markets while shopping, assumed to be a fan of rap/hip hop culture, assumed that rap/hip hop culture is the same as thug/gangster culture. Educated blacks that have a desire to better themselves are assumed to be the exception to the rule, when, in truth, there is a very small group of blacks that fit that stereotypical "gangsta" persona you see in TV 99% of the time. It's gotten so bad, that blacks themselves have grown suspicious of their own people, and accept cultural stereotypes about them as fact (see any Tyler Perry movie..., I'm only partially joking).
When there is a white character on television, for example, that suffers from a drug problem, has an aggressive, abusive streak, or is a killer thug or gangster, people just assume that he is the exception to the rule. "Why, he's an individual who's on the wrong side of good." A black character on television, that suffers from a drug problem, has an aggresive, abusive streak, or is a killer thug or gangster, is just "par for the course. You grow corn, you get corn." It's expected of us to be trouble-makers and thugs, and we are treated accordingly.
When I bring up white privilege, I don't do so to make white people feel bad. Me and my wife talk about this sort of thing all the time (she is white, and I am black). I mention it because it is a very true thing in America.
We all have obstacles in our path while going through life, but in America, blacks have had some significant obstacles placed in theirs, due to nothing more than a history of bigotry and racism. We fought for our freedom and rights, but many white Americans were not happy about that, and some of them shifted to a passive aggressive way of keeping that discrimination alive.
Since setting foot in America, blacks have been trying to fight a negative perception of us. It's been damn near 300 years, but so many non blacks seem to be just as afraid of us as they were back when we were slaves. It's a shame.
I can empathize with what women and the LGBT community are going through, because blacks have been down that path as well. Don't worry, your time will come, but be prepared to keep that fight for your rights and cultural perception changes. We've been fighting for generations, and some people just don't seem to want to let it go.
Please keep in mind that not all white people share the same views of the bigots that make life difficult for minorities (not just blacks, though I am speaking from the only perspective I know of: the black perspective), it's just that they happen to benefit from being in the same nationality as those bigots.
I certainly don't hold any grudges, but I'm not going to shrug my shoulders, or bury my head in the sand and pretend that that sort of thing isn't going on. That's not helping anybody.
It could be like my mutant superpower. To be used at all retail outlets, bank loan offices, and anytime I'm driving with a police car behind me. And at every job interview. After I get the job, I'll switch back and toss them an evil laugh. Much like a vampire, all you needed to do was invite me in...
Yeah, I was being pretty generous. I was born in '79, just 11 years after the Civil Rights movement ended.
My mom did a great job of keeping me in the dark (no pun intended, lol) about race while growing up, but it wasn't until I was about 5 years old when I was first introduced to the concept of "blacks" and "whites."
I was in Kindergarten, and my mother was taking me home from school. I was talking about one of my friends, and my mom asked me, "Is he black or white?" I had no idea what she was talking about. In my mind, the kid was just my friend. I don't think his skin color ever once factored into why I was hanging out with him. I asked my mom what she meant by "black or white," and she explained. She didn't go into any more detail beyond "white" meaning "light skinned," and "black" being "dark skinned."
It wasn't until I was older that I was introduced to the "darker side" of race (fucking puns! god dammit!).
I remember also wishing that I was "white" when I was a kid, not so much because I was ashamed of being black, but because I had associated, in my mind, that being "white" seemed better.
Basically, all of my white friends seemed to have "full" families: mom, dad, siblings. They also seemed to have nice homes. Nice cars. All the latest toys and video games.
By contrast, all of my black friends, and my family, were often single parents, mediocre homes, no car, or busted car, and we hardly got many toys or video games growing up.
I had connected in my young mind that being dark skinned and black just wasn't fun. I wanted what my white friends had.
Nowadays is another story. I'm proud of who I am, and of my nationality. I have a diverse racial background, but I identify as black. I've experienced my fair share of racism and bigotry and discrimination. I've received a different type of discrimination because of my vitiligo. It's real, and it still happens today. It's frustrating when people try and dismiss our concerns like we are just bringing shit up from a long time ago, and won't drop it.
This isn't about "white guilt." It's simply about acknowledging a serious division between the races, and on working to improve that and bring us together, not keep us apart.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I am mixed so never wished I was white because I considered myself half until I was about 7 or 8.. that is about the time I was first called "half-breed" then it sunk it that I would never really be accepted as white but I would be as black...
Well at the very least i dont enjoy TSA touching my Indian ballsack every time I take a domestic flight, so there's that I suppose.
cutmeamango
Banned
But wait, what is your skin color, and facial feature-wise what do you resemble the most?
EDIT: Oh, and why was there a need to be accepted by either of skin color groups?
I think it's hard for a disadvantaged white person to understand.
It's like you can get a taste when you go underdressed to a fancy resturant. I've certainly felt rich/upper class people stare down their nose at me, but I don't think I can fully appreciate what that is like all the time. Not really sure I want to either.
Red_Ragnarok
Banned
They screen everyone. What about all those stories of old white cancer patients getting pat downs?
Are you trying to argue that racial profiling doesnt occur in airport security/TSA?
The stories where everyone goes "LOL, why are they harassing old white people? Everyone knows its the brown people we have to be scared of."
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good example of white privilege.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I look black.. a lot half and half black and whites look black...
Why? Because one group calls you a n@gger or half-breed and the other doesn't?
It's human nature to want to be accepted by you fellow man..
CrushDance
Banned
Avoiding something doesn't make it go away. I'm out. Talking about this isn't going to change anyone's mind here on in the real world if people keep dancing around the issues. To the people who keep arguing that there is no privilege. Is their racial equality in 2012? And secondly, have you ever wished to be black if you're something else? The lowest rung on the social ladder?
Well - the extra emollients in the skin would be nice.
I understand that I'm privileged. First of all to be white, secondly because I'm male, and I'd probably throw 'born in England' in as a privilege too. Hell, even having blue eyes is something of a privilege in a very small way.
Thing is, whilst I have privilege, I have no power. I can recognise my privilege all day long but I really can't do much to afford that privilege to others in anything other than small, personal interactions. I'm not sure how we move from realising that white people have privilege to extending that courtesy to others.
I think the reason that many people struggle to see our 'privilege' is because people have certain expectations from the word. People assume that 'privileged' means 'having wealth' or 'steeped in luxury' when our privilege is much, much subtler than that. Basically, we're treated the way that people should be treated. It shouldn't be a privilege, but it is.
Thing is, whilst I have privilege, I have no power. I can recognise my privilege all day long but I really can't do much to afford that privilege to others in anything other than small, personal interactions. I'm not sure how we move from realising that white people have privilege to extending that courtesy to others.
I think the reason that many people struggle to see our 'privilege' is because people have certain expectations from the word. People assume that 'privileged' means 'having wealth' or 'steeped in luxury' when our privilege is much, much subtler than that. Basically, we're treated the way that people should be treated. It shouldn't be a privilege, but it is.
TF2 GAF accepts you, Blackace.
I'm the opposite; I have a light complexion so most people think I'm white or consider me white, including my own brother, who is half also, but has a darker complexion and looks black. Shit's weak. I kind of got mad at him about it; at first I was joking around, but as it sank in I became actually mad a little bit.
I consider myself to be mulatto and almost always have to point it out.
cutmeamango
Banned
My second question came out wrong, sorry. I thought about if there was a need for you to be identified as a white person or a black person. But anyway, does not matter now. That is some horrible people you grew up near.
Here in Brazil if you were to call someone a half-bred you'd probably have to walk with your family tree under your arm. Most of my classmates in school were admixtured (not necessarily with african heritage), presenting darker skin tones (than the typical white). My brother even has mediterranean sort of skin tone while I'm totally pale.
Anyway, sadly it is human nature to segregate too.
EDIT: I was thinking your case would be like Zekes! here, not characteristically satisfying any of both groups directly.
This is actually a problem in census, because here in Brazil a large percentage til almost mediterranean consider themselves white. After that tone, people start considering themselves brown/mixed and futher black.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
been asked if I am from the PR a few times but for most I look black
even been described by a poster here as an angry black man
I had a cousin like you(rip) but most people once they figured out he was half called him black
the problem the term half breed mulato and all is it seems to be directly pointed at being half black
it was actually kinda refreshing to move to Japan and find the half means Japanese plus anything non Japanese lol
Halfway up.
Society is a consensus, so the best thing you can do to eliminate privilege, aside from just being nice to people, is to also point out and talk about privilege with people to increase the number of people who are aware of how privilege operates. It seems like a two step process (learn/act), but in reality, it's just a very long and tedious one step process. Very long.
I was born with priviliges that mostly are due to the lottery i won by being born in a western country, and so were most of you i think. I had options and opportunities most people born today will never have.
That i was born with the same skin colour as the majority certainly adds to it, but the main privilige factor is where i was born, not how i look.
That i was born with the same skin colour as the majority certainly adds to it, but the main privilige factor is where i was born, not how i look.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
That's a 1st world vs 3rd world privlege thing. I would think that most people are aware of that and accept it. (Reading this thread, I wonder though.)
However, when applied specifically within the US. Race is going to be a factor.
My point was that being born in the right place is much more of a privilige than being born white, and some of the posts i read in this thread is the reason i wrote it
No doubt, it's a factor anywhere i would gather, things like harsher sentencing for immigrant men compared to anyone else are hard to explain without using the word discrimination.
But yeah probably especially in the US since it seems a lot harder to get by in the lower income brackets in the US compared to the rest of the western world, and because social mobility is much lower there.
HyperBitHero
Member
I've lived in Hawaii since I was like 4, and it's pretty shitty being white here.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Because regardless of our facial features and skin tones we're members of both groups? You wouldn't even know I was mixed until I told you because I look black (for the most part) but when one whole side of your family doesn't want you, as a kid that fucks with you.
Really this is like asking why is there a need to be accepted by your mother AND father.
But it only reaffirms the unfounded hate the world has for blacks.
The PSA is made by and for an American audience. But yes, the concept of privilege exists outside of the narrow context it's used in this thread.
Roger Danish
Member
On an individual level, you probably can't do much. But as is evidence by this thread, ignorance still runs deep in our society. Until the majority of white people accept the realities of white privilege, without going into their reflexive-defensive, "but look at the Cosby kids"-mode, the privilege will continue undisturbed.
Short of an outright revolution, I suppose.
The reason people have so much trouble with the word is because--again, as evidenced by this thread--many people (such as that ridiculous "race-blind" poster) come into this topic with a predetermined agenda to attempt to undermine any serious discussion about racial disparities (probably because it makes them uncomfortable). In doing so, they attempt to cast "privilege" as some sort of binary situation--you either have it (1) or you don't (0). Sadly, as is so often the case, such a non-nuanced view adds nothing of value and serves only to derail and impede discussion.
Oh, I stand corrected.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Actually you did downplay the privileges that still put minorities behind in the race...
lol at the 400 year headstart, we colored people in Europe have to deal with a ~4000 year+ headstart.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Makes sense given how much older said countries are compared to America.
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