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Bernie Sanders: "This is not the time for a protest vote"
- Thread starter mdubs
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balladofwindfishes
Member
This is the single worst election in the history of this country for a protest vote. I'm not really sure where you came to the conclusion this was the perfect time.
This is ignoring of course, that protest votes do literally nothing other than spoil the election, and send no message at all to anyone and change nothing.
RPGCrazied
Member
She's female. That alone gets under some people's skin which is just gross.
benjipwns
Banned
The ideological hardliner "protest vote" in 1860 led to a civil war and nearly a million dead Americans.
Even though the party had sold out to the so-called "moderates" and the platform was no longer was against Mormons, slavery, the Fugitive Slave Act or Dred Scott.
If Trump wins, and I don't think he will, but if he does, all those people who said "fuck it, they're both bad, I'll vote for Johnson/Stein" are going to get a four to eight year lesson in how fucking stupid they were.
Just like 2000. Sigh...
Me too : ( In my case, the friend doesn't like Johnson, and isn't a libertarian, but doesn't want to vote for Clinton anyhow. It's super frustrating, and comes down to the fact that he doesn't "trust" Clinton.
Just like 2000. Sigh...
Me too : ( In my case, the friend doesn't like Johnson, and isn't a libertarian, but doesn't want to vote for Clinton anyhow. It's super frustrating, and comes down to the fact that he doesn't "trust" Clinton.
Tranqueris
Banned
Probably. I would imagine that he's not pure enough for some of his former supporters because he decided to actually try and get something done instead of going third party or whatever the hell they wanted at the end.
Yep, after a little bit of "how many people voted third party this year" trivia on election night from Brian Williams, the country as a whole will go back to not caring about third parties for another 4-16 years. I think one of the rationales I've heard for voting third party is "well they'll be able to get funding if you do!"
Yes because if anyone deserves funding it's a pandering ambulance chaser like Jill Stein who says crazy shit and every now and then says things that sound like Russian propaganda.
balladofwindfishes
Member
No
They'll get a 30 year lesson in how to destroy the liberal cause and set back the country by decades due to their ignorance of the Supreme Court.
This is the first time in two generations we have a chance to have a liberal Supreme Court. Any "liberal" who wants to throw that away so they can have a temper tantrum isn't a liberal. They're a child.
I'm imagining an evil Tim Kaine running the country. The hero Donald Trump goes against Mega-Dad, but ends up loosing in the worst way possible.
Unfortunately, no one gives a shit about the supreme court, and how important it is. Furthermore, they won't see a difference because the court already is conservative. But I do agree it will be momentous if we can flip the court.
SolidSnakex
Member
The sound bites are definitely something that Trump could deliver. But something we also know about Trump is that he's incredibly thin skinned. He's been on Twitter all days complaining about the way the media has treated him after he said Obama was born in the US. We also know that he's sexist. So how will he react when a woman sticks it to him on national TV? I'm not one that thinks there's a chance that he's going to let a slur slip, but he really doesn't handle pushback well. He's someone that's in his element when he's speaking at rallies where he can say whatever he wants without anyone correcting or questioning him.
benjipwns
Banned
2004 was two generations ago?
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Kids grow up so fast these days.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
This can't be said enough. Every Bernie supporter who isn't voting for HRC is being hypocritical or delusional.
2004 had a liberal president?
balladofwindfishes
Member
I didn't realize both of Bush's justices were in his second term.
Man, Democrats messed up bad in 2004.
But this election is pretty unique because there's an actual seat to fill by the next president. The other elections were just predicting who was going to retire.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
They made some mistakes but a lot of it was beyond their control. Kerry was poor but Bush was still hoodwinking the media into good coverage. There was also that Bin Laden tape right before the election.
benjipwns
Banned
Unless Kerry enacted his health care plan fast I doubt there was much he could do to keep Rehnquist from dying.
People often forget Roberts was originally nominated to replace Sandra Day O'Connor and not as Chief Justice.
Even if O'Connor punts hoping for a GOP President in 2008, that's still a 5-4 "liberal" majority with Kennedy and O'Connor as two of the "conservative" votes.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
not if that vote is for trump they shouldnt.
MHWilliams
Member
Yes, our general electoral system leads to this mindset. The issue is that it's not changing anytime soon. I acknowledge the right of a protest vote, but voting in and of itself is a poor means of communication.
Given that, what are you accomplishing in a Presidential election? Given the general electorate, your best case scenario ("your" being a general term, not the poster I'm replying to.) is a third-party getting federal funds. In terms of actually contributing to governance, it's a net zero, whereas downticket voting would produce measurable outcomes.
If your issue is that no candidate perfectly represents your views, that is and has always been a huge problem for many minorities and other groups in the United States. Those groups are generally stuck with voting the "lesser evil" simply because regardless of how you vote, we're all stuck with the same choice and all bear the collective responsibility for that outcome. This is why I frame it as a broken leg versus a lesser wound like a papercut, both are bad, but if I have to choose one, I choose the papercut.
And I put lesser evil in quotes, because there are a great many of the electorate who legitimately believe in their candidate.
I understand feeling some anger and umbrage from the way others may be talking to or about you, but this is the Presidency of the United States. It is wildly important. This is the leader of our country for the next four years. It is the person that will, hand-in-hand with (or against?) Congress, enact policies that affect the lives of millions. They will determine who our next Supreme Court justice is.
All I ask is that you take that choice seriously, as does Bernie Sanders.
Yes.
But he waited so long to say this, and before that whipped up his fans into such a frenzy about "Shillary sold out to Establishment and Big Money" that now, instead of making the "pivot" he is seen as a sell out by the hardcore Bernie or Busters.
I hope he can help with the turnout, but it might be a case of too little too late (this being said some Busters were never going to vote for a mainline Democrat to start with, they are either anarchists, anti-establishment, or Libertarians at the core (or all three).
This. Scalia's seat is vacant. Ginsberg is 83, Kennedy is 80, and Breyer is 78. That's 4 seats that are reasonably likely to be replaced in the next 8 years. This is a much, much bigger deal in the long-term than anything the next President does or fails to do in office, and Trump creating a 20-30 year conservative majority would undermine anything a liberal President or congress might do in that time frame.
SneakersSO
Member
I was, and still am, a Bernie supporter, but I won't be bringing myself to vote for Hilldawg.
She'll win, i'm confident in that. I don't even think I care enough to bring myself to the poll anymore. But if I do, i'll either go for Johnson or Stein. I was a life-long democrat, but this election put a pin in that aspect of my identity.
She'll win, i'm confident in that. I don't even think I care enough to bring myself to the poll anymore. But if I do, i'll either go for Johnson or Stein. I was a life-long democrat, but this election put a pin in that aspect of my identity.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
"I'm going to vote Trump because Bernie secretly supports him and is just doing this as a long con on Hillary."
- Actual thing someone said
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Bernie just sold out huh?
benjipwns
Banned
HUELEN10 does not count as just someone
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No, I'm not talking about GAF. Facebook is a wonderful treasure trove of bullshit.
Byakuya769
Member
It's vexing. Mobilize and win state races. Take over congress. Get the senate. Like none of that matters to this "political revolution" if they don't have the guy as president to project on.
Rather than reducing it to establishment ire, I would say that I think Bernie supporters had some key things in common with Trump supporters: they were whiter and were more disproportionately affected by "trade deals." So you can't just say they didn't care about anything, though I think like any broad coalition you have lots of varied interests that sometimes conflict. For example, I am part of the Hillary coalition that benefits greatly from free trade and the free flow of financial capital and yet I will vote for the same person that the AFL-CIO will endorse.
So I think what Hillary needs to do is speak directly to these people and build a positive case around why she will help them. I think anyone who is truly a "Bernie Bro" at this point is not really a Bernie Bro but rather just a Bro. Since they obviously don't give a fuck about Bernie.
The American political system is built for two parties so the capable and ambitious join those parties. Johnson isn't great, but at least he's something. Stein is an absolute fucking nutbag who is unfit for office so I have no understanding of protest voters there. The path to change in Merka is not by wasting your vote but by working to get more liberal / more conservative candidates elected locally and state-wide. Not by trying to get Jill Stein elected. Yikes.
Are you sure you're a Bernie supporter?
So I think what Hillary needs to do is speak directly to these people and build a positive case around why she will help them. I think anyone who is truly a "Bernie Bro" at this point is not really a Bernie Bro but rather just a Bro. Since they obviously don't give a fuck about Bernie.
The American political system is built for two parties so the capable and ambitious join those parties. Johnson isn't great, but at least he's something. Stein is an absolute fucking nutbag who is unfit for office so I have no understanding of protest voters there. The path to change in Merka is not by wasting your vote but by working to get more liberal / more conservative candidates elected locally and state-wide. Not by trying to get Jill Stein elected. Yikes.
Are you sure you're a Bernie supporter?
benjipwns
Banned
That's just the Corrupt Union Leadership backing Corrupt Hillary, the actual workers will vote for The Donald, as he proved with science.
minor effort
Banned
Agreed. I'm pretty committed to voting for Hillary and encouraging others to do the same, and she doesn't represent me or my views perfectly. But as far as vote strategy goes, she's the best vehicle for stopping Trump. And if I were to fail to cast a vote that I felt would be the best avenue for stopping Trump, that would weigh heaviest on my conscience. This election is so much bigger than myself.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
He is very, very correct.
Neuromancer
Member
No. Contrary to the popular belief here, most Bernie supporters are reasonable people who are going to vote for Clinton now.
Byakuya769
Member
Can someone explain to me the thesis of "lifeline democrat voting for Johnson"?
I promise not to attack, I just legitimately don't understand.
I promise not to attack, I just legitimately don't understand.
Good, I don't want them in my party anyway. I want a party of elitist Plutocrats that control everything from behind the scenes.
Or like the pre-Reagan republicans amirite benji
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I knew Bernie in the primary. The way his heart beat, the licking of his hips after made point, the faint smell of capsicum and mothballs that followed his speeches. I know his soul and inner flame. What I see now through his aura and faint breath after his words betrays his true intent. Debbie has him threatened so he is forced to the front like a marionette under threat to say vote for Hillary. I see him and I know his true intentions, his eyes and the way his hair rests tells me one thing...Vote Trump.
jack_package_200
Banned
"I am a white person that is salty about Bernie losing by a sizable margin and don't care about the damage a possible Trump could do while also thinking Hilary is the antichrist."
hydragonwarrior
Member
If the protest voters leads to a Trump led Brexit like win of the presidency... oh man, I feel like it can happen since Bush was able to win, twice.
Clinton feels like Gore at this point until she gets back the momentum.
Clinton feels like Gore at this point until she gets back the momentum.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is what happens when you get some of your supporters so crazed that you can't reel them back in with logic and reason
benjipwns
Banned
Bernie aligns with our wing on foreign policy, war on drugs, criminal justice, many social issues even more than Hillary, etc. And as pointed out endlessly, he's not appreciatively different enough on other policies from Hillary to where the difference from Trump changes things. And if you don't trust Hillary's "current position" on the issues, like many people don't...
Johnson's also a pragmatic governor, he's hardly a radical. For example he wants to reform Medicare and Medicaid (from his experience working with the programs as a governor), not destroy it. Him and Weld are using the ballot line more than they're becoming actual center-of-the-party Libertarians. Johnson also cares more about social issues, despite being a businessman himself, it's why he doesn't totally understand his own tax proposal.
This ironically is why some libertarians are supporting Trump instead. (Also, they're idiots. Or hate immigrants. Or both.)
why?
MHWilliams
Member
I think his question is "Why Johnson, not Stein?" But I don't want to put words in his mouth. Stein is a bad candidate though, so I think people will lean towards Johnson because while his party is nonsense and he has some odd policies, he appears to be sane.
benjipwns
Banned
It's a good year to vote for Green ballot status since they're actually on nearly every ballot for the first time ever.
Jill Stein happens to be the party nominee.
jack_package_200
Banned
There have been articles about Johnson getting more support from Bernie supporters than Stein and that Johnson was leeching more votes off of Hillary than Trump.
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2016/08/gary_johnson_taking_more_voter.html
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Coincidentally, Johnson only gives hardcore libertarians a semi.
benjipwns
Banned
NobleGundam
Banned
Where would that money be put to good use perhaps another house?
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