Hey, I know all that! I'm just saying it doesn't make for an engaging or satisfying narrative.
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Berserk |OT| - Big men, bigger swords, OFF THE BOAT - Berserk #344 24/6/2016
- Thread starter EvilKatarn
- Start date
Shmuppers
Member
Those are amazing, wow.I have two of them, and yes the artwork is amazing. I love the feel of the cardboard too. It has a nice texture.
It can be, but it's tricky to pull off. Again, I know exactly what your talking about. Wheel of Time burned me HARD on this kind of trope.
But in the case of Berserk, I can't get too mad about it. I think the trick is just because we may not know the exact machinations, but we know the exact motivation. The goal after the fact was clear: Griffith was using that to bring his dream to life. That makes a big difference from something like Aizen, who goes "What made you think you were..." no matter what the situation or end result. Like, toward the end, he kept getting new form after new form and I was lost as to what the point even was.
Here's what we know: the likes of Skull Knight and Guts CAN swim against the torrent of causality, but only a little. Only in small ways. Something as major as Skull Knight eating Behelits and making a Godhand destroying sword out of it would be seen from a million miles away, compared to the Skull Knight doing something as minor as rescuing two random stragglers from the Eclipse. So I can believe Griffith would see the opportunity and work around it. I also don't think that's the last we've seen of that ability.
That makes it work for me, though I understand if you just start seeing the strings on the puppets. Reality bending powers in general are very hard to depict well.
Absolutely. I like it when authors at the very least show that they're keenly aware of how tricky omniscient / omnipotent characters are (Moore's Dr. Manhattan comes to mind, for example), but more often than not...
Its basically a red herring. You think SK is going to show up and whoop ass and it turns out its just another useless attempt to stop the GH's plans. Its supposed to disappoint you and I think its in part setting up the fact the Dragon Slayer may become the weapon to finally defeat the God Hand. SK's sword failing to even annoy Griffith/Femto was I think part of the point. Using their own magic items against them, even in an altered and twisted form, was most likely not going to work against the GH. They're beyond normal magic, even powerful magic users who rule entire kingdoms with their incredible power like Ganishka proved to be absolutely useless against them and actually played perfectly into their plans to start the merging of the world.
Again you focus on the sword like its important and it seems it was never the case. The death of Ganishka in such a state that it would flood the world with the energies of the astral planes was the focus, not the fact the SK showed up to try. If he never showed up the events would have most likely happened all the same as someone swimming against causality like the SK was never a big part of their plan, at most it was a slight change in things, but the entire point was to kill Ganishka and merge the layers in doing so. Griffith was already advancing this plan by attacking Flora and destroying her spirit tree which is yet another way to further the merging of the layers by making the World Tree all the more powerful.
The Dragon Slayer is being set up as the weapon that can possibly truly hurt the God Hand. Guts has not only slain who know's how many ghosts, demons and other supernatural monsters but he's killed most likely dozens of apostles, many of which were very powerful and was even able to hurt Ganishka in his fog form which on one else even came close to doing. Now he has used the Dragon Slayer to kill an actual God and even Zodd came to recognize its becoming an anathema to all beings of super natural origin just because what Guts has done. Not only that but Guts has been far closer to actually hurting the GH's plans than it seems the SK ever was and it seems Skully realizes this and wants to use him to achieve his own similar desires in toppling the GH.
Basically Guts is the real "behelit sword" being wielded by the SK to defeat the GH.
You should really check what Griffith himself says in that scene...
(Man, was the Skeleton Knight really just slacking off the whole time then? After a thousand years, you'd expect him to have something like that already!)
You tend to procrastinate a bit when you know you have all the time in the world.
True enough. I was more focused on Ganiskha giving into the light that bears the shadow which is basically Griffith. Still doesn't really bother me in terms of lore as it was one of many elements to converge on that time period. Miura set it up pretty damn well and I don't think it conflicts or breaks any of the established stuff we know. You don't like the all knowing character trope but that's kind of the name of the game for the GH. They toy with the flows of causality to get the results they want even if they don't outright control them.
What was he supposed to do? The God Hand don't care about him anymore than they do most things. He attacked Void head on and it was useless and at most it entertained the God Hand that even attempted such a pointless attack. They are hardly impressed, let alone afraid of him. He's not even a bug to them despite wiping the floor with most apostles and other creatures. He can't even encounter the God Hand unless he finds someone summoning them to the physical plane or the most likely super rare scenario where Slann came to fuck around with Guts.
His behelit sword was a novel attempt for all the work he put into creating it but in the end Miura showed it was a useless weapon and that Guts's far simpler solution to things is actually generating a much more novel and potentially realistic threat to the GH. This I think has much more to do with Guts being who he is and the life he leads than anything with the SK who just sees the opportunity to finally be able to hurt the GH through him. Guts was an unhappy accident whose entire nature to struggle against forces outside of his control is far more essential to foiling the GH than someone like the SK who seems too caught up in the events at this point.
If anything Griffith using it against Ganishka just shows what a bad idea using something like behelits against the GH really was. Fighting fire with fire doesn't always work and can make things far worse when it gets out of control.
So I decided to look up the actual trope entry of Writing by the seat of your pants and turns out there is an entry for Berserk there.
And shit, you guys thought that the lore was in trouble?
My guess is that Miura has the ending confrontation with Guts and Griffith worked out, but beyond that had nothing. It also explains some of the out of character moments Guts had in the early volumes.
Which, to all the people who are now kinda panicking, is fine. Planning is immaterial to some writers. Breaking Bad was written in a similar fashion, and it's continuity is one of the strongest in TV.
So yeah, I stand by my thoughts that Miura probably had no idea about the greater cosmology of his fiction. And that's just fine. Contradictions in continuity are the problem, not mere uncertainty of them.
I agree, it's perfectly normal to write like that. Like Erigu said, it's worked out well for him in the past. It's just too bad that it's starting to show some cracks the more he does it
Personally, I worry more about the way he's juggling this huge cast of characters, I hope he does have a plan for them instead of just writing them "by the seat of his pants" into the story. In my opinion, these past few episodes have definitely suffered in terms of writing and illustration because of that (to the point where I find them nearly unreadable)
Maybe, but it did lead to batshit insane tonal shifts and schizophrenic relationships between the main characters
I agree that the illustrations suffered, but more from the setting not playing to his strengths than anything else imo. As for the story, I think it's fine other than a few bumps where the characters act unnaturally. But that's not a planning issue, just a revisional one.
Like that's a bad thing. At any given point, you can clearly see how one thing logically lead to another, and by the time the show was in it's last season, Jesse had become keen, constantly being driven away by his insane pride before being brought back into the fold by his caring mentor persona. The extreme tonal and relational shifts weren't bad, just a part of the story.
The key, I think is that the writers is aware of what everything he's already written means and continues from there. If Berserk does the same thing, it will be fine.
I personally think the overabundance of heads crammed into every corner of recent episodes has turned the composition of his panels uninteresting to say the least, and most pages straight up ugly and polluted. And that's just in terms of what I can blame on the number of characters sticking around
Yeah, to me some damage has been done but I trust him to make Berserk great again™
JadedWriter
Member
I'm willing to bet Togashi doesn't plan with HxH, but we still love it despite and because of that fact.
Hahaha!
I'm just pointing out that if Guts fighting those creatures for a few years gave him a sword that could actually hurt God Hands, you'd expect the Skeleton Knight to have at least one of those already, after a thousand years. Wasn't he fighting the same critters? And he wouldn't even have to actively try to power up his sword or anything like that (Guts sure didn't). Seems a bit ridiculous that all he'd have after all that time is something that actually proves weaker/ineffective, don't you think?
Yeah, that bit with the child what I was thinking of when I said that improvising worked out for Miura in the past. I just hope he didn't get too cocky after that...
As I often say in discussions like this, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with improvisation. It can be done well. But you better be really careful, and some writers clearly aren't. I'm hoping Miura isn't one of them, but I'm getting a bit nervous.
JadedWriter
Member
RadioHeadAche
Member
Berserk: My mercenary leader can't possibly be this cute
The Omega Man
Member
Have we seen SK after he don goofed in volume 34? He must be so ashamed that he doesn't want to.come back. -1000 points in coolness after that screwup
JadedWriter
Member
His horse probably can't carry him along with the massive L he's holding.
I'll reiterate he had no way of encountering the GH as SK is very much a part of the physical plane and the GH reside several layers deeper than most other astral creatures. He has no way to bring them to the physical world as Behelits only respond to those that are touched by causality and being set up to possibly make a sacrifice and become an apostle. I'm assuming he can't just tell who will become an apostle, let alone when and where and its hardly like they come to the physical plane otherwise except to cause trouble and that alone seems fleeting at the very best.
This is a character who attacks the Eclipse and he charges Void head on with a point blank physical attack which did nothing except get turned around on him. Not the smartest or most tactical of moves against entities like the GH. SK for as bad ass a fighter as he is doesn't actually seem to know how to handle the GH outside of slaughtering their cronies which the GH don't really care about anyways. Their abilities are so far beyond his and their encounters no doubt so few and far between that he hasn't really seemed to develop a defense or offense against them except leaping around a lot and sneak attacks. We know he's been trying to figure something out whether its donning the Berserker armor at some point and most likely his relationship with Flora but it seems its been mostly fruitless for him but then again its an ant trying to take down a blue whale.
His behelit sword seemed like a long shot attempt to use the GH's own powers of reality warping against them and like his attempt against Void, it was deflected and did nothing and actually made things far worse. I brought up Guts and the Dragon Slayer because they very well maybe what he has been searching for these last thousand years. A weapon and person who might just be able to actually damage beings like the GH.
Er... Sorry, man, but I don't see how any of that addresses what I pointed out.
How could a sword that's been used against those creatures for a couple of years be something that the Skeleton Knight's been looking for a thousand years, when he himself has been fighting those same creatures with a sword during all that time? How does that make sense to you?
(And all those disadvantages you're listing for the Skeleton Knight in your post would also apply to Guts, really...)
How could a sword that's been used against those creatures for a couple of years be something that the Skeleton Knight's been looking for a thousand years, when he himself has been fighting those same creatures with a sword during all that time? How does that make sense to you?
(And all those disadvantages you're listing for the Skeleton Knight in your post would also apply to Guts, really...)
OK, but I wasn't talking about problems with the plot, I was talking about thematic consistency. Setting aside magic being a deus ex machina, it doesn't fit in with the main themes of the series. For the first portion of Berserk, the main theme is about how lusting for power beyond the reach of humans ultimately requires sacrificing your humanity. That is what the apostles, Skull Knight, the berserk armor, and the eclipse are all about.
And that is why introducing witches who can gain great supernatural power just through studying while remaining a pure girl does not fit in the Berserk world. Or letting Guts use the berserk armor as long as he has a talisman. Or Serpico getting an enchanted sword.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Several Berserk volumes are available on instocktrades if anyone's missing some volumes.
Tizoc
Member
Way i see it- berserk armor, eflipse and god hand are of the chaotic nature of magic
Whereas the magic that shreek and the other magic users use are formed from a mutual peaceful treaty kind of thing
RadioHeadAche
Member
Free shipping is for $50 or more, but they are the best place to buy them. Almost every one of my complete collection, except four or five of them, came from instocktrades.
JadedWriter
Member
What fight? Casca would stab Schierke or threaten to cut her and Farnese will just continue to wash her hair. Farnese took better care of Casca's hair than Casca herself.
I couldn't sleep last night and found the time to read volume 35 and midway through 36. I'm enjoying this Sea God arc way more than the previous Millennium Falcon one. I think pages have been getting a lot messier though and sometimes I find it quite hard to tell what's happening.
I think Isma is my new favorite character too.
I think Isma is my new favorite character too.
ohhthegore
Member
pshhh I've looked everywhere with pretty much no luck. Hopefully we keep getting more reprints
Barajas_201
Member
Hey guys, just got done reading volumes 15 through 26 (I'm beyond hyped for the next volume) and I was wondering if its safe from spoilers to watch the new anime? Is it true that the Blu-rays will have better art than the CG when it aired? Should I steer away from the anime?
RadioHeadAche
Member
The anime ends at volume 20 of the manga, and really isn't worth your time. Supposedly the BDs are fixing some of the art, but probably not enough to make it look good.
If you really enjoyed reading Berserk, don't watch the 2016 anime
Barajas_201
Member
RadioHeadAche
Member
Nope, it's pretty unmemorable. There's a Hirasawa insert song, but it's just another remix of Forces. I do like the ED song, though.
True Savior
Member
Barajas_201
Member
I do not mean to needlessly bump the thread but I just finished volume 37 and I felt more sorry for Guts than ever before 
This is on the ship after the battle with the S
and he's just lying bed and can barely see the light of the lantern above him. But even then, all he can think about is going out after Griffith again with the armor to hunt him down. Hopefully Casca can bring him some respite and not more misery.
I think this traveling party with Guts won't survive for long after Casca is healed. I'm not sure what Casca might want or think, but I can't imagine *all* of the current party would want to join Guts as he hunts down the new band of the hawk and Griffith. He himself might not agree to bring them along. Honestly what do they expect to do against the likes of Irvine, Zodd and the others? I hope we don't keep watching them just taking care of fodder for so long, it's not that entertaining. Maybe I just miss the events of the black swordsman arc, I dunno.
Any word on when volume 38 will be out?
This is on the ship after the battle with the S
ea God
I think this traveling party with Guts won't survive for long after Casca is healed. I'm not sure what Casca might want or think, but I can't imagine *all* of the current party would want to join Guts as he hunts down the new band of the hawk and Griffith. He himself might not agree to bring them along. Honestly what do they expect to do against the likes of Irvine, Zodd and the others? I hope we don't keep watching them just taking care of fodder for so long, it's not that entertaining. Maybe I just miss the events of the black swordsman arc, I dunno.
Any word on when volume 38 will be out?
Early next year sometime. Miura seems to release a bunch of chapters then takes like a six month break.