Best NES shmups (and other non-traditional reccomendations)?
- Thread starter Y2Kev
- Start date
A Black Falcon
Member
Y2Kev said:
That game's evil, but is it as evil as Cybernoid? I'm not sure...
... Seriously though, it is perhaps more evil, as horribly unplayable as Silver Surfer is (particularly if you don't have turbo for Silver Surfer). Cybernoid is probably worse.
It's a quite different kind of game so you can't directly compare them, but still... on the sheer cruelty factor, they both take 'NES Hard' and go way too far with it.
Of course Cybernoid is a European C64/CPC/Amiga port, but still. The point is the same.
leroy hacker
Member
Kuramu said:
It had a different publisher, who is long defunct, so there's no reason to expect it just because Zanac came out.
Tornado Condor
Member
carlos said:
QFT and /thread
Kuramu
Member
A Black Falcon said:
I've finished Zanac many times, both ways, and I've found it so much easier with turbo. After getting (inevitably) killed, use your few seconds of invincibility to rush the boxes. If you fly through one with a chip in it without shooting it, you get automatic triple beam. Now you're right back in the game
edit: Also, getting a chip gives you a quite short but useful .5 second invincibility. You can use that moment to move into a better position or rush a box in hopes of getting the triple
charlequin
Banned
Abadox is a great game to while away a boring Saturday afternoon as you get your friends to each line up in succession to completely fucking fail to clear the second level.
A Black Falcon
Member
Kuramu said:
I gave up at a part where there was a long string of turrets in the center of the map, for many screens, shooting at you, just before the boss I believe... I tried to kill them all but couldn't, and tried to dodge but it was quite hard and I never managed it without too few lives to figure out the boss. I forget which level it was in, but it was just really, really hard, and I eventually just turned it off. I'm sure I'll try again sometime, though, even if the difficulty system is very annoying.
Quixzlizx said:
I don't necessarily have a problem with slow-paced games. That's not the issue. I mean, I loved BlaZeon on SNES, and that's a very slow-paced game. Same for Image Fight on the NES. Tiger-Heli isn't actually awful or something, it is a decent game. It's just kind of boring and frustrating. Very slow-paced games where dying punishes you heavily and it's so slow like that... it's just not very fun. Oh, and the serious lack of powerups doesn't help much either, or that they can so easily get shot away (even including your bombs, which you evidently can't replace without dying and only have two of).
Oh, and yeah, the extremely slow speed of the helicopter is something I really dislike. I like to be able to actually dodge things... and I like to actually be able to kill the enemies. In this game you move so slow, and so many enemy waves approach from the rear (and you can't shoot backwards), that you have to spend a lot of time slowly trying to dodge bullets. That's frustrating and not fun... and tough too, I can't get more than a couple of levels into it and I've owned it for like a year now (hadn't played it much before then). So yeah it's not terrible, but I'd much, much rather play Gradius, or Image Fight, or TGL, or something like that.
Y2Kev said:
Yeah, I think one of my favorite AVGN moments is when he tries to land the plane in Top Gun with the U-Force... :lol
... I don't have Top Gun and don't really want it, but I have played it a couple of times. Trying to land that plane pretty much just seems to be random luck, without much of a chance of actually succeeding. I was playing it with a friend who did own the game a few months ago, and we beat level 1 (before quickly getting game over in the second level). He said that that's the farthest he's ever gotten, because landing is so hard...
A Black Falcon said:
1. The only time bombs are shot out from under you are when bullets would've killed you, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about there.
2. Like I said, you don't really need to spend a lot of time dodging if you plan your movements ahead. It's not a bullet hell game, so there's plenty of time to get into position between waves of enemies.
What can I say, it's one of my most-played NES games.
Diatribe1974
Member
Atomik Robo Kid
Man...none of you mentioned it yet?
Man...none of you mentioned it yet?
cartman414
Member
A Black Falcon said:Life Force - Salamander in Japan. Kind of like Gradius, but shorter, with at-point restarting when you die, continues, two-player simultaneous play, and vertical stages as well as horizontal. Awesome, as you would expect from classic Konami. The easier difficulty level and co-op mode are nice, particularly for people who aren't good at Gradius... note that the arcade and TG16 versions of Salamander, as well as Salamander 2 for arcade and PSX/Saturn (Japan only), have a much simpler powerup system where you just pick up powerups instead of using the Gradius style that NES Life Force/Salamander has. I much prefer the Gradius powerup system, so this is a big plus for this version... I'd rather have this for NES than TG16 for sure, because of that.
Life Force for the NES/Famicom is basically what the Gradius series should be more like. It took the more strategic elements from that series, including the powerup system, but sped up the overall pace quite a bit. The only reason I can imagine people preferring the arcade/TG16 versions, aside perhaps from the neat alternate heart of Zelos boss strategy at the end, is arcade purism.
Gun Nac was also something of a parody.
As usual with other Konami Famicom conversions, worth checking out for the alternate levels/enemies.
Concurred.
I thought the Famicom version, aside from an issue with your ship's hitbox, was an otherwise more balanced affair. Both are equally good, I'd say.
A Black Falcon
Member
djtiesto said:
No, Atomic Robo Kid was only on Genesis and TG16, and just Genesis in the US. I definitely liked the game, but yeah, it's not on the NES.
cartman414 said:
Eh, I do think I slightly prefer Gradius... I mean, yeah, Life Force added some very nice things, but still, I don't know...
Of course, NES Life Force/Salamander is pretty good, having the Gradius powerup system, but the ones without that are definitely worse than Gradius, as I said. But NES Gradius vs. NES Life Force? Yeah, Life Force wins in a lot of categories, but still, perhaps for nostalgia, or game title, or something, I would put Gradius slightly ahead.
Oh, and I prefer horizontal to vertical shmups, so while having both types is nice variety-wise, it doesn't really make the game better. Like Axelay on SNES... the vertical stages are really cool looking, but the horizontal ones are more fun. Also, with only six stages (in both Life Force and Axelay's cases), that means only three stages of each type, which isn't much...
Agreed about NES vs. arcade/TG16, though... though the US arcade version of Life Force, which does have the Gradius powerup system, would definitely be the best of those. I believe that that Japanese Saturn/PSX Salamander collection included both the Japanese and US versions of the first arcade game, to play it both ways... not certain about that, but I think it did.
It's too bad no version of Salamander 2 has the Gradius powerup system as far as I know, it would help the game. I mean, the graphics are great, but with the simplified powerup system it's just not the same...
That's true, the plot and enemies are funny stuff...
It's not really a 'cute 'em up' as for the most part it's a standard shmup design-wise, but it's partway towards that, at least.
True, the NES ones were always a bit different, and definitely worth playing.
I like horizontal shmups better, generally, so Crisis Force isn't my favorite Konami NES shmup, but it certainly is a really, really good one... and those graphics, wow. The NES can't do much better than that, for sure!
Well, the graphics and music are slightly better on TGCD...
Gameplay-wise, though, yeah the NES version is very solid, and extremely impressive for the system. Gradius fans should indeed play both, yeah.
I got my NEs today. I'm having connection problems, though I think it's the games and not the system. I only have Mario and TMNT to test with, and when I could get them working (1/8000th of the time), I had vertical lines running down the screen save for one time when I got perfect Mario Bros. Time to get out the rubbing alcohol.
The system's connectors itself at least physically look okay.
The system's connectors itself at least physically look okay.
OnWarmerMusic
Member
Gunsmoke fucking owns. I didn't play it until many years after the NES era had ended, and it really was like discovering a treasure for me.Timedog said:
I'm also a big Tiger-Heli fan, but like Falcon says, its pace is a bit odd.
leroy hacker
Member
Y2Kev said:
Have you blasted the connectors of the games and console with compressed air?
rollingstart
Banned
The only shoot em up I can think of that wasn't mentioned already is Captain Skyhawk. I don't know how much it counts since, while it is top down, you can fly down and up and go left and right past the single screen. Ok, now that I'm viewing this thread with images on, it seems like someone did mention it early on.
Other games that aren't shoot em ups:
Thunder and Lightning (best version of breakout)
Gyruss (better than the arcade version)
R.C. Pro Am (best racing game on the NES)
Gunsmoke is way awesome. But if it counts a s a shoot em up, then something like Commandos is too.
Other games that aren't shoot em ups:
Thunder and Lightning (best version of breakout)
Gyruss (better than the arcade version)
R.C. Pro Am (best racing game on the NES)
Timedog said:
Gunsmoke is way awesome. But if it counts a s a shoot em up, then something like Commandos is too.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
Linkzg said:
Tenth post, friend.
There needs to be a thread about NES ports that were better than their arcade versions (besides graphics), because that list is LOOOOONG.
Also, if we're doing Gunsmoke/Commandos, then how about some Guerilla War?
A Black Falcon
Member
Gun Smoke, Commandos, Guerilla War, Ikari Warriors I-III, Jackal, Iron Tank, etc, really aren't shmups in any way. They're shooting games, sure, but not shmups.
Really, a true shmup is an auto-scrolling shooting game where you move around the screen and shoot things. There are some 'shmuplikes' which fit most of that but aren't auto scrolling, like an In The Hunt or Atomic Robo Kid, but games like those... no, I couldn't even call them those. They're a different kind of action shooting game, like how Contra and such are another one (run & gun games), or how Robotron, etc. is another (arena shooters) or Space Invaders, Galaga, etc. another (static screen shooters), and Star Fox, etc. another (rail shooters). I don't know what you'd call those games, offhand, but they're definitely their own category.
Oh, Guerrilla War is probably my favorite of those games on the NES. Awesome, awesome game... I loved Ikari Warriors as a kid, but it is pretty brutal in retrospect (unless you use the cheatcode that lets you continue). Guerrilla War is better in pretty much every way...
Even better than R.C. Pro-Am II? Really, you'd say so? I think the second had a whole bunch of nice improvements, really... multiplayer (4 player, no less!), a shop to buy stuff from, etc.
I also always have liked the Micro Machines games better than R.C. Pro-Am... and the first one did have a NES version. I mean, R.C. Pro-Am was fun, but Micro Machines is even better.
The real problem with the bombs is that you only get two, a very small number, and there's no way to replenish them without dying. This makes it pretty brutal when one of them gets shot off... and having more of them would be very useful in a game this hard.
As for the second point, that basically means memorizing everything. Of course shmups are a memorization-heavy genre, but still... in a game that long and slow, it's a little ridiculous. Because you can't be prepared for everything after it appears, your ship really is too slow to be able to react to anything the game may throw at you once it's on screen...
... Despite what I said there, I saw a copy of Twin Cobra for Genesis yesterday for cheap, so I got it. It's not bad, I definitely like it more than Tiger-Heli... your ship is still really, really slow, but at least this time you have more powerups to collect, and can get multi-directional shots and stuff. That helps a lot.
What, so it gets easier again after that? That'd be nice... that part was just insane. What IS the best way through that? Just trying to dodge stuff as I was?
Really, a true shmup is an auto-scrolling shooting game where you move around the screen and shoot things. There are some 'shmuplikes' which fit most of that but aren't auto scrolling, like an In The Hunt or Atomic Robo Kid, but games like those... no, I couldn't even call them those. They're a different kind of action shooting game, like how Contra and such are another one (run & gun games), or how Robotron, etc. is another (arena shooters) or Space Invaders, Galaga, etc. another (static screen shooters), and Star Fox, etc. another (rail shooters). I don't know what you'd call those games, offhand, but they're definitely their own category.
Oh, Guerrilla War is probably my favorite of those games on the NES. Awesome, awesome game... I loved Ikari Warriors as a kid, but it is pretty brutal in retrospect (unless you use the cheatcode that lets you continue). Guerrilla War is better in pretty much every way...
Linkzg said:
Even better than R.C. Pro-Am II? Really, you'd say so? I think the second had a whole bunch of nice improvements, really... multiplayer (4 player, no less!), a shop to buy stuff from, etc.
I also always have liked the Micro Machines games better than R.C. Pro-Am... and the first one did have a NES version. I mean, R.C. Pro-Am was fun, but Micro Machines is even better.
Quixzlizx said:
The real problem with the bombs is that you only get two, a very small number, and there's no way to replenish them without dying. This makes it pretty brutal when one of them gets shot off... and having more of them would be very useful in a game this hard.
As for the second point, that basically means memorizing everything. Of course shmups are a memorization-heavy genre, but still... in a game that long and slow, it's a little ridiculous. Because you can't be prepared for everything after it appears, your ship really is too slow to be able to react to anything the game may throw at you once it's on screen...
... Despite what I said there, I saw a copy of Twin Cobra for Genesis yesterday for cheap, so I got it. It's not bad, I definitely like it more than Tiger-Heli... your ship is still really, really slow, but at least this time you have more powerups to collect, and can get multi-directional shots and stuff. That helps a lot.
Kuramu said:
What, so it gets easier again after that? That'd be nice... that part was just insane. What IS the best way through that? Just trying to dodge stuff as I was?
GitarooMan
Member
I highly, highly recommend a pin connector replacement like this.Y2Kev said:
http://www.estarland.com/NintendoNES.cat.HW.product.16956.html
It's easy to put in and the difference will likely be noticeable.
rollingstart
Banned
A Black Falcon said:
For me it was a case where I didn't play R.C. Pro Am 2 until much later in my life and couldn't really compare it to the first game that I played so much. It's still great. Micro Machines is great too, but again, it's one of those things where I played R.C. Pro Am so much when younger than even games that are similar probably can't top it in my mind.
leroy hacker
Member
Y2Kev said:
Probably before. It wouldn't be easier to remove dust after you use alcohol. However, I personally have never needed to use alcohol-compressed air has always cleaned things as well as I wanted.
A Black Falcon
Member
Linkzg said:
Ah. I'm not sure if I played either game back when they came out... perhaps, but I'm not sure. Because the Game Boy was my first console, the first ones of those series I had were the Game Boy version of Micro Machines and Super R.C. Pro-Am. I got them both in probably 1997 or 1998... and thought Micro Machines was a lot better. Super R.C. Pro-Am was fun, but very simple. You just drive forward... sometimes you can even win without even turning, as hitting the sides bumps you in the right direction. It did have 2-player link cable play, but that just made it even easier... I think I beat the game in two or three days. Micro Machines took me a lot longer, and I loved the great variety of vehicles and tracks, too. It felt like an improved version of something similar, really.
Of course, Micro Machines games can be frustrating when you're going really fast and have to stay in the narrow course lines, particularly in versions like the GB/GG versions of Micro Machines 2 which really are virtually unplayable for anyone who hasn't already memorized all the tracks. Even besides that though, the Micro Machines games definitely can be hard. R.C. Pro-Am in comparison is just simple fun, which is nice sometimes for sure.
Of the R.C. Pro-Am games though, R.C. Pro-Am II for NES was the last one, and definitely the most evolved, with a shop, Super Off Road style, 4-player single-screen play sort of like in Micro Machines, and more... I can see why nostalgia would give the first one the edge though. It was a pretty good game for its time, for sure. I just picked up a copy of R.C. Pro-Am for the NES, actually... still looking fo the second one though.
leroy hacker said:
Some cartridges are really dirty... rubbing alcohol does a good job of cleaning them. I use it on dirty ones. Compressed air's a good suggestion too though, that should also work for a lot of the dust... because cartridges attract dust, and NES carts are some of the worst, with huge openings at the end and a long connector to get dirty.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
For the absolute damndest reason I want to own an NES again.
Ebay is too expensive though, I'll take my chances at pawn shops/flea markets. =/
Ebay is too expensive though, I'll take my chances at pawn shops/flea markets. =/
cartman414
Member
A Black Falcon said:
I never saw it in terms of horizontal vs. vertical stages. I just felt that all 6 of the stages in the Famicom/NES version of Life Force were all high quality. The game's main advantage over the Gradius games in general was a faster pace, which made for a more entertaining experience. That's the one thing from Life Force/Salamander I'd like in the Gradius series.
Fun facts: the Japanese (Famicom) version had a three option max in single player mode, there was an actual credit sequence at the end of the game, with a visual of either the pilot or the Vic Viper, depending on how many continues you used, there were unlimited continues IIRC, and the game came in a translucent blue cart.
[QUOTEThat's true, the plot and enemies are funny stuff...
It's not really a 'cute 'em up' as for the most part it's a standard shmup design-wise, but it's partway towards that, at least.[/QUOTE]
Especially with the ridiculously happy shop attendant.
Yep.
Interesting that you say you prefer horizontal shmups, because vertical shmups tend to be more common.
Well, the graphics and music are slightly better on TGCD...
Gameplay-wise, though, yeah the NES version is very solid, and extremely impressive for the system. Gradius fans should indeed play both, yeah.
Yeah. I prefer the more forgiving difficulty of the NES version. The TGCD version is very hard even on easy mode. I found myself using the Konami code plenty of times there!
Amazon marketplace is amazing. I got mine for 30...which I think is fair provided the seller guarantees it works.PepsimanVsJoe said:
There is an import shop by me selling completely refurbed NESes but at 90. It's still an NES. And 90 dollars is still 90 dollars.
A Black Falcon
Member
cartman414 said:
The Japanese version also has a different on-screen interface design, which is better than the US one -- you can actually see the words of all six powerup boxes, instead of only the one that is currently selected (nice for people who don't have all six memorized). So yeah, if you have the choice, definitely get the Japanese version of the game for sure, it's better in a bunch of little ways. (Why the heck did they remove the credits... they were already in English I believe...
)As for pacing I thought Gradius' pace was fine, so faster isn't necessarily better.
That and some of the enemies, yeah.
So? I started with stuff like Gradius, and have liked that style better ever since. There are plenty of vertical ones I like a lot, though... but I do like stuff like actually having obstacles to dodge and stuff. It adds something to the genre I think, versus games where you just have to dodge enemies (Of course my favorite PC shmup, Raptor, is vertical and doesn't have obstacles like that, but it's great even so...). The Gradius series really is my favorite shmup series, for sure.
I like Gradius III on SNES more, the massive slowdown makes it somewhat easier, but still amazingly fun... but as far as Gradius II goes, I'd need to play the two versions both more to decide which I like better I think.
PepsimanVsJoe said:
Yeah, that's what I always do when I can, ebay prices are pretty high a lot of the time... and then there's shipping...
brain_stew
Member
I'd honestly avoid the arcade ports unless they change up the game a whole lot, there's just so many better ways to play them, no need to subject yourself to a butchered version of them anymore.
A Black Falcon
Member
Y2Kev said:
I think I can get to about level 3 of NES Contra... haven't tried it with the Konami Code, though (tried to input it a few times, but it's really hard with the Advantage... and the only other controller I have is a NES Max. Probably not going to be much easier with that...
).Y2Kev said:
Batman... I have that. Got to the final boss. Eventually gave up because of how ridiculous it is. Sunsoft made evilly hard games...
rollingstart
Banned
I barely played Batman even though I own it. I just remember it being like Ninja Gaiden and Batman was like purple or something. I have a bunch of NES games I haven't finished because they were my brother's at the time and I really just played my games.
and if we can just recommend any types of games, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3 The Manhattan Project is awesome. Again, it's probably a nostalgia thing, but I thought it was just as good as Turtles in Time.
did you get a top loading one or the original for $30?
my old NES barely works anymore, but my top loading one I got for $5 plays games without any problem. The dog bone controller is also way better.
and if we can just recommend any types of games, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3 The Manhattan Project is awesome. Again, it's probably a nostalgia thing, but I thought it was just as good as Turtles in Time.
Y2Kev said:
did you get a top loading one or the original for $30?
my old NES barely works anymore, but my top loading one I got for $5 plays games without any problem. The dog bone controller is also way better.
I can't find an NES2, nevermind one for $5. If I could find one, I would take that. Because...it's more reliable.
4 of my 5 games I can get to work well easily. Maybe a little jiggering. Batman I have to labor to get working. But it DOES work. Wow, this game is awesome too. Great graphics and music and NG style wall jumps.
and yeah, go ahead and make recs.
4 of my 5 games I can get to work well easily. Maybe a little jiggering. Batman I have to labor to get working. But it DOES work. Wow, this game is awesome too. Great graphics and music and NG style wall jumps.
and yeah, go ahead and make recs.
cartman414
Member
A Black Falcon said:
Not arguing against your preferences, it's just that horizontal shmups are more the exception than the rule in terms of frequency.
Gradius III's slowdown for me has been a liability in comparison with other Konami shmups. Not enough twitch, which is one of the main reasons I shmup.