GavinUK86
Member
From the boat scene. The one that's similar to the Booker one in Infinite.
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BioShock Infinite: Burial at Sea - Episode Two - Spoiler OT
- Thread starter ElzarTheBam
- Start date
From the boat scene. The one that's similar to the Booker one in Infinite.
Jesus Christ that scene was intense. I kept turning my head down every few seconds. Incredibly uncomfortable to watch. But I didn't think it was unnecessary or go on too long. It becomes the ultimate "all or nothing" moment for Elizabeth.
Brainfreeze
Member
No worries, man. I think we're all just throwing our initial reactions at the wall right now. I appreciated your input, glad I could help.
I see your point, but I'd counter that if we hadn't seen Elizabeth get beat down so much by that point, that scene likely would have felt far cheaper. If it had been totally out of no where I think "shock value" would have been a better description. They were building up to "Atlas will turn on you and do horrible things" the whole game though so this felt appropriate to me. It was the climax of Atlas' increasingly terrible deeds.
Also, as to something totally seperate, I feel like the other thing I didn't really understand was Songbird's origin. It seemed to imply that he was purely robotic, yet he responded as if he was an animal? But drawings and sketched seemed to show a man in the suit. So, do we ever find out exactly what Songbird is? Again, I missed a couple audio diaries so I'm not sure if this was addressed.
Except we already know what kind of man Atlas is, we knew what he did in BS1. That was kind of like... the difference between having no gore to great effect, and big gore for less effect.
Pretty sure they did nothing. Complete tease. I was expecting them to drop a bomb at the end of that one sequence, you know, a version of Booker is Songbird, or a version of Elizabeth is songbird, or something. But the most you get is.. "It's this animal thing, and it likes you because you protected it once. What is it? WHO CARES! HAHA!"
Well, I care Ken, if you're going to give me a "big time mind ****" corridor set piece.
GavinUK86
Member
Yeah, I gathered it was all machine. They tried female primates and dogs to no avail. I seem to remember something about half a human brain though in an audio diary. Not 100% certain.
Just finished this. After seeing that ending, I've come to the conclusion that Burial at Sea suffers the EXACT same issues as the main game like clockwork. Everything from the gameplay right down to the rushed reveal and self indulgent mind trips that are a large disservice to the human core of the story. It baffles me how it so easily casts aside its emotional center in favor of contrived explanations and an ending that feels like its aiming for something "cool" rather than genuinely moving. Maybe I went into this finale to the Bioshock mythos of sorts with the wrong mindset but instead I'm just happy that this gobbledygook mess is finally as wrapped up as it's going to get.
Ending the game by reaching full circle with the original Bioshock just cements my feelings on the whole thing. There's no sense of emotional payoff or even the sense that anyone involved had an arc that altered their obvious fate. It also doesn't help that the nature of the story at this point (now that the concept of the multiverse has been introduced) makes it hard to feel attached to any of the plot because so much of it feels insubstantial or that it can be ret-conned at any moment. From bottom to top, the whole episode just feels manufactured to exude cleverness and ended up trying way, way too hard to pile on connective tissue where none needed to be in the first place.
I might just have the wrong read on it after a single playthrough but my reanalysis of the main game after it was released just exposed even more cracks in the foundation. I have little confidence that replaying the DLC will sway me further.
Ending the game by reaching full circle with the original Bioshock just cements my feelings on the whole thing. There's no sense of emotional payoff or even the sense that anyone involved had an arc that altered their obvious fate. It also doesn't help that the nature of the story at this point (now that the concept of the multiverse has been introduced) makes it hard to feel attached to any of the plot because so much of it feels insubstantial or that it can be ret-conned at any moment. From bottom to top, the whole episode just feels manufactured to exude cleverness and ended up trying way, way too hard to pile on connective tissue where none needed to be in the first place.
I might just have the wrong read on it after a single playthrough but my reanalysis of the main game after it was released just exposed even more cracks in the foundation. I have little confidence that replaying the DLC will sway me further.
My username is A-V-B. Let's be friends.
Brainfreeze
Member
Did we though? We heard him in our ear, slowly manipulating us in the first game, but we've never seen him like this before now. Seeing just how brutal he can be had a huge effect on me personally. I take your ideas to a point, but I will say that I 100% did get the effect they were going for so they aren't totally misguided or anything. It's just personal taste, I guess. I prefer show-don't-tell in these sort of situations so I was glad to finally see just how much Atlas is capable of on his own.
Yeah, I was expecting a bombshell as well. Couldn't help but feel like I'd missed something when I'd left that area. That's a real shame that the didn't really do anything else with that but I guess when Booker said "Is that a man or a robot?" and Elizabeth responded "Does it matter?" that was kind of them directly addressing this. Kind of sucks.
Especially considering that, if this thing is a robot...like...what? Lol that just doesn't make much sense. Why does his design clearly have a human body in it then? Why would it be created that way? Plus, considering they obviously couldn't program the thing, and it's not just simple mechanics like the robot horses or artificial bodies controlled by human brains like the handymen, how is this thing conscious? How does it have the animal capacities to react to that "thorn in the lion's paw" dynamic? Even in Columbia's extremely advanced society we have yet to see anything that could address those questions. That feels like a cop-out to me; not sure why they'd bring it up if they really didn't care too much about fully answering the question.
And they kept trying to make this big-daddy/little-sister connection, right? Of course Songbird is some kind of mutated lobotomized Booker that Fink stole from another universe! IT'S OKAY TO ADMIT IT! IT'S TRAGIC AND NATURAL! REVEAL IT ALREADY AND MAKE IT COOL!
"Uh, no?"
Argh.
I loved the second part more because of it, honestly.
For. Real.
Overall, I liked the Songbird origin, but this was the missing piece that would've gone from good to great. I really wanted to know if Songbird was organic at all, I mean, it did leak black oil/goo/blood in the original game, so what is underneath it all? That was the one bit I really wanted to know.
This was a thought in my head as well. I would've been cool with it. But again, nothing.
Intheflorsh
Banned
That torture scene would have had a lot more impact if I hadn't just seen the last episode of Hannibal.
SoraanTribal
Member
My gut reaction is I didn't like the story in Burial at Sea. Reading some of the posts here makes me appreciate it a bit more, but to be honest, I actually preferred Bioshock Infinite/Columbia over Rapture. So the fact that this story was pretty much 90% about what happened on Rapture was a bit of a bore. That's not to say I didn't like Bioshock 1, but I was pretty tired of Rapture by now.
I don't feel like this ending has any closure at all for Bioshock Infinite, but instead, has closure for Bioshock 1 which is kind of weird. Maybe I just need some time to process the story and read more responses. I still don't understand what Elizabeth we played as during the game. The one in BaS 1 died obviously.. and people are saying it was a "whole"/all Elizabeth's merged into one? Was this actually said in game or just speculation? I don't recall the boat ride with the Luteces actually saying that. EDIT: Rewatching the scene again, it was after the scene, Elizabeth said she "The Luteces warned me that if I came back, I would collapse.... into just me" or something like that. Hmm.
Honestly, I'm just pissed that Elizabeth died.
I loved her character, and I don't feel like her death had much meaning. Yes, the events she put into motion lead to the events of Bioshock 1.. so Jack was able to save the Little Sisters, but.. who the hell cares? lol. Maybe it's just me, but I never cared about the fate of the little sisters that much. And who the fuck is Sally, and why should we care that much? Why does Elizabeth? That's one thing I don't get. Elizabeth is going through all this trouble (giving up her powers and eventually dying - she KNEW she was gonna die, too prior to coming back to Rapture) to save ONE Little Sister that she met once for like a minute? I don't buy it. I don't even really think she has anything to feel guilty about from BaS1, anyways. Yeah, she used Sally in a revenge scheme, but she was fine. Not like she was burned alive. Whatever happened to Sally in Rapture was likely gonna happen no matter what (since Rapture is a shitty place to be). Meh.
The ending of Bioshock Infinite is one of my favorite endings in gaming period, and I just want to pretend like BaS never happened now. lol
I don't feel like this ending has any closure at all for Bioshock Infinite, but instead, has closure for Bioshock 1 which is kind of weird. Maybe I just need some time to process the story and read more responses. I still don't understand what Elizabeth we played as during the game. The one in BaS 1 died obviously.. and people are saying it was a "whole"/all Elizabeth's merged into one? Was this actually said in game or just speculation? I don't recall the boat ride with the Luteces actually saying that. EDIT: Rewatching the scene again, it was after the scene, Elizabeth said she "The Luteces warned me that if I came back, I would collapse.... into just me" or something like that. Hmm.
Honestly, I'm just pissed that Elizabeth died.
I loved her character, and I don't feel like her death had much meaning. Yes, the events she put into motion lead to the events of Bioshock 1.. so Jack was able to save the Little Sisters, but.. who the hell cares? lol. Maybe it's just me, but I never cared about the fate of the little sisters that much. And who the fuck is Sally, and why should we care that much? Why does Elizabeth? That's one thing I don't get. Elizabeth is going through all this trouble (giving up her powers and eventually dying - she KNEW she was gonna die, too prior to coming back to Rapture) to save ONE Little Sister that she met once for like a minute? I don't buy it. I don't even really think she has anything to feel guilty about from BaS1, anyways. Yeah, she used Sally in a revenge scheme, but she was fine. Not like she was burned alive. Whatever happened to Sally in Rapture was likely gonna happen no matter what (since Rapture is a shitty place to be). Meh.The ending of Bioshock Infinite is one of my favorite endings in gaming period, and I just want to pretend like BaS never happened now. lol
Maybe it'd be nice if they kept it simpler.
Uh, on that note, weird creative spark incoming where I act super arrogant as if I know more than a story's creator. Late night one, too. Watch out, these get strange because I have none of my usual sanity controlling my impulses here. Probably double or triple sappiness overkill factor.
Like, instead of dying and losing her powers because she turned mortal in the metaverse... what if the reveal is that she is still kind of mortal? She's got super powers, sure, but she's still this 20 year old girl. Maybe they can actually kinda bug out on her in times of extreme trauma and she has to learn how to control them again? If a Time Lord Elizabeth can't foresee getting attacked by a Big Daddy, she must have weaknesses. In this case, you just take it a little bit further. Call it getting shoved out of sync with the multiverse. And the catalyst for that is being knocked out by the Big Daddy (instead of being killed by one) coupled with the psychological "bad juju" of murdering Rapture-Comstock. So now it can become more about her instead of weird supernatural pseudo-science stuff, and it's still Our Elizabeth. Take out the part where she has to work for Atlas at the start, put brain-booker over the loudspeakers instead of the Radio, hey, maybe you've got the start of something interesting there.
Then she has to go figure out how to get her powers back (while fighting tougher splicers earlier on to nail home her normalness, and tougher Vox Populi, but perhaps less quantity for both.) She just really wants to go back and fix what she did in the Toy Store. But at the beginning, it's only because of Sally. Elizabeth's arc moves forward because of a growing regret about what she did to Rapture-Comstock that doesn't fully culminate until the end of the story -- which would also tie in nicely as to what Songbird might really be, allowing her to understand her father better, which is what she spends a good deal of time doing while surviving in Rapture and Columbia. We also get to fight Songbird in Columbia before the twist about its identity. Once she's found Suchong during her independent little investigation, been to Columbia and back, and all that stuff about her dad comes together in her head during a big (but different) confrontation with Atlas, maybe she has this huge emotional moment, gets her powers back, and you launch into a grand whirlwind climax across all time and space that blows you away until the credits roll.
That high energy sequence could end with her going back to the baptism where she kills Booker, and she realizes, that may've been wrong too, and there's a way to change everything without taking his life. She got so locked down in what the Luteces made her into (so she could kill Booker at the baptism from that whole Fitzroy trauma deal) that she never tried any other way. She goes even further back, and finds her dad after Wounded Knee, after the regret is already setting in, and she sits with him. Because of some quantum hijinx, it's also a little bit of our Booker who went through the game, just a bit, so there's this sense of healing for the series, and future events can be pulled in to the bigger picture for Booker during the conversation. She convinces him not to go to the baptism, or maybe she even prevents him from going to Wounded Knee. Either way, the thing that fixes it all is just making a final emotional connection with him. Gives him the personal forgiveness from herself that the impersonal baptism never could, mixed with a healthy sense of reality about the nature of his acts and how it's more about learning to live with what you've done than forgetting it ever mattered. Maybe true forgiveness is impossible. And that's what does it. I mean, shit, we know this is just pseudo-quantum physics with a main character who has magical godlike superpowers. We gotta end these characters' stories for real so we might as well focus on what's important for them.
Once she's done convincing him, this is a great chance to ask Dad some last questions. Not much time left for Liz, she's already feeling weak... maybe they end up in the place where Booker and Liz's mother first met, like at a bar on new years eve. And she asks him about how the two met, thinking maybe it won't happen anymore because of the timeline (and her powers are gone for good) so she just wants to know what her mom was like on that day. Then Booker talks about her mom, deep in memory, as Elizabeth fades away -- she can no longer exist, after all, and this is the last fragment of her. She just vanishes, lost in the sound of her father's voice. And she's okay with it. Then Booker is locked back into his own stream of time, doesn't quite remember how he got there like he's had a few too many drinks at the bar, right? The mind makes up memories. At last, Liz's mom sits down next to him at the bar, at the right place right time, and we see it's the same woman who is Mrs. Comstock in Columbia! Boom! We have our explanation as to how Baby Liz might've existed in Infinite's epilogue. Mrs. DeWitt is a constant! We don't know how it pans out, just like Infinite, but we do get this sense of realization and maybe some satisfaction. And that'd be the end. The circle is truly unbroken. And we didn't have to tie Elizabeth down to Rapture's fate. Just her own.
Epilogue: Luteces rowing. Rosalind commenting on how surprising it turned out to be. Robert sort of holds it over her, like, I told you. Rosalind tells him, don't be childish, you never predicted this. Robert begrudgingly admits. "Well, this was a very interesting experiment, wasn't it?" "Will be." "Is." They row away into the fog.
That would be more "full circle," I think, than what we got. Bioshock 1 already was complete, anyway. Infinite possibly wasn't.
Ok! I'm sure I'll wake up tomorrow and smack myself in the face, going, "what were you on, pal? Holy cow, what a dumb post. Go into a corner and think about what you've done."
Uh, on that note, weird creative spark incoming where I act super arrogant as if I know more than a story's creator. Late night one, too. Watch out, these get strange because I have none of my usual sanity controlling my impulses here. Probably double or triple sappiness overkill factor.
Like, instead of dying and losing her powers because she turned mortal in the metaverse... what if the reveal is that she is still kind of mortal? She's got super powers, sure, but she's still this 20 year old girl. Maybe they can actually kinda bug out on her in times of extreme trauma and she has to learn how to control them again? If a Time Lord Elizabeth can't foresee getting attacked by a Big Daddy, she must have weaknesses. In this case, you just take it a little bit further. Call it getting shoved out of sync with the multiverse. And the catalyst for that is being knocked out by the Big Daddy (instead of being killed by one) coupled with the psychological "bad juju" of murdering Rapture-Comstock. So now it can become more about her instead of weird supernatural pseudo-science stuff, and it's still Our Elizabeth. Take out the part where she has to work for Atlas at the start, put brain-booker over the loudspeakers instead of the Radio, hey, maybe you've got the start of something interesting there.
Then she has to go figure out how to get her powers back (while fighting tougher splicers earlier on to nail home her normalness, and tougher Vox Populi, but perhaps less quantity for both.) She just really wants to go back and fix what she did in the Toy Store. But at the beginning, it's only because of Sally. Elizabeth's arc moves forward because of a growing regret about what she did to Rapture-Comstock that doesn't fully culminate until the end of the story -- which would also tie in nicely as to what Songbird might really be, allowing her to understand her father better, which is what she spends a good deal of time doing while surviving in Rapture and Columbia. We also get to fight Songbird in Columbia before the twist about its identity. Once she's found Suchong during her independent little investigation, been to Columbia and back, and all that stuff about her dad comes together in her head during a big (but different) confrontation with Atlas, maybe she has this huge emotional moment, gets her powers back, and you launch into a grand whirlwind climax across all time and space that blows you away until the credits roll.
That high energy sequence could end with her going back to the baptism where she kills Booker, and she realizes, that may've been wrong too, and there's a way to change everything without taking his life. She got so locked down in what the Luteces made her into (so she could kill Booker at the baptism from that whole Fitzroy trauma deal) that she never tried any other way. She goes even further back, and finds her dad after Wounded Knee, after the regret is already setting in, and she sits with him. Because of some quantum hijinx, it's also a little bit of our Booker who went through the game, just a bit, so there's this sense of healing for the series, and future events can be pulled in to the bigger picture for Booker during the conversation. She convinces him not to go to the baptism, or maybe she even prevents him from going to Wounded Knee. Either way, the thing that fixes it all is just making a final emotional connection with him. Gives him the personal forgiveness from herself that the impersonal baptism never could, mixed with a healthy sense of reality about the nature of his acts and how it's more about learning to live with what you've done than forgetting it ever mattered. Maybe true forgiveness is impossible. And that's what does it. I mean, shit, we know this is just pseudo-quantum physics with a main character who has magical godlike superpowers. We gotta end these characters' stories for real so we might as well focus on what's important for them.
Once she's done convincing him, this is a great chance to ask Dad some last questions. Not much time left for Liz, she's already feeling weak... maybe they end up in the place where Booker and Liz's mother first met, like at a bar on new years eve. And she asks him about how the two met, thinking maybe it won't happen anymore because of the timeline (and her powers are gone for good) so she just wants to know what her mom was like on that day. Then Booker talks about her mom, deep in memory, as Elizabeth fades away -- she can no longer exist, after all, and this is the last fragment of her. She just vanishes, lost in the sound of her father's voice. And she's okay with it. Then Booker is locked back into his own stream of time, doesn't quite remember how he got there like he's had a few too many drinks at the bar, right? The mind makes up memories. At last, Liz's mom sits down next to him at the bar, at the right place right time, and we see it's the same woman who is Mrs. Comstock in Columbia! Boom! We have our explanation as to how Baby Liz might've existed in Infinite's epilogue. Mrs. DeWitt is a constant! We don't know how it pans out, just like Infinite, but we do get this sense of realization and maybe some satisfaction. And that'd be the end. The circle is truly unbroken. And we didn't have to tie Elizabeth down to Rapture's fate. Just her own.
Epilogue: Luteces rowing. Rosalind commenting on how surprising it turned out to be. Robert sort of holds it over her, like, I told you. Rosalind tells him, don't be childish, you never predicted this. Robert begrudgingly admits. "Well, this was a very interesting experiment, wasn't it?" "Will be." "Is." They row away into the fog.
That would be more "full circle," I think, than what we got. Bioshock 1 already was complete, anyway. Infinite possibly wasn't.
Ok! I'm sure I'll wake up tomorrow and smack myself in the face, going, "what were you on, pal? Holy cow, what a dumb post. Go into a corner and think about what you've done."
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Oh come on, an MGS fan is actually complaining about the story in THIS game? Seriously?
Given the state of Irrational games, and what Levine has talked about what he is going to do with his "smaller" team....It's pretty evident that Bioshock games will be no more.
And Its funny cause I started to get that "Lost" kinda feeling/vibe too. But I personally, love that feeling/vibe.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
What I gathered, is she is all the elizabeths/Annas collectively which is why all the different memories were flooding back to her. since comstock/booker died all the other elizabeths/annas died too and like you said, it's just one.
What got me thinking though, is, is remember the final scene after the credits in Infinite? So, is this the Anna that was raised from that moment on? signifying that when Booker woke up, Anna was really there? I wonder if there is a picture of a date on his desk for that scene, as we get the date when Elizabeth/Anna hires him in episode 1.
<Edit> nvm....i played the ending again of BI and the date on the desk was 1893
and the beginning of episode 1 is 1958.
Anna def. didn't look over 60 in episode 2 so toss that idea out the window... But it does kinda make this last Booker/Comstock make sense just cause, this Booker/Comstock is old in this, and it would make sense that he is old since it is 1958 and the last time we see Booker is 1893. On top of that, after this Booker/Comstock dies, there is no more Booker/Comstock...so that part gels well with the idea of the ending of Infinite where Booker killed all the other Booker/Comstocks and the last one that was left was the one that woke up at his desk at the end of the credits.
With that said, some say that the ending in episode 2 takes away form BI and I disagree, BI's ending was what it was. The way they tied this all together it seems Chronologically it goes BI > Ep1 > Ep2 > Bioshock.....which means the ending in Bioshock is the final result....that takes nothing away from the ending in BI though.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
believe it or not, you can play without stealth once you get the handcannon and shotgun.
Shorter version: Bioshock 1 is Back to the Future. Burial at Sea is Back to the Future II.
Longer version: Elizabeth feels bad about leaving Sally to die, comes back a mere mortal to put things right, and basically puts the events of Bioshock in motion (freeing Atlas, fixing the Big Daddies, and telling Atlas the "would you kindly" phrase.) She dies at the end, but it's all worth it because Jack saves some kids!
Oh come on, an MGS fan is actually complaining about the story in THIS game? Seriously?
Given the state of Irrational games, and what Levine has talked about what he is going to do with his "smaller" team....It's pretty evident that Bioshock games will be no more.
And Its funny cause I started to get that "Lost" kinda feeling/vibe too. But I personally, love that feeling/vibe.
Well, no matter how convoluted MGS gets it all usually makes sense in the end and leves me satisfied, BaS did not. I didn't even feel anything concerning Elizabeth's death because I'm not even sure which Elizabeth I was playing as and whether she is truly dead as clearly Anna/Elizabeth is still alive in one timeline.
I just don't care about any of these details concerning Rapture, BioShock 1 neatly wrapped everything up about that story, sure there were a few lingering questions but they weren't important ones and they helped add to the mystery. The whole point of BS1 was coming into this utopian city after the fall and trying to piece together its downfall, thus actually being spoon fed and participating in the downfall seems silly. And Elizabeth's role just seems so inconsequential, I never understood why she had to be the one to put all these events in motion and it seriously degrades the characters from BS1. Thanks to the DLC Atlas has now been severely dumbed down, Ryan seems like big idiot, Suchong is just a copy cat, and Tenenbaum just doesn't even exist yet despite having a central role in BS1 and the creating of everything.
I wanted closure to Infinite not BS1, I already know what happens to Rapture, I know what happens to the Little Sisters, I know Atlas is a jerk, I know who Suchong is, etc. I wanted to know more about Columbia, about Elizabeth, about the Luteces, about Booker, and just what the hell s going on with the multiverse.
The end of Elizabeth's story, the one who was described as the "heart" of Bioshock Infinite, being merely to put into place the events of the first game is incredibly unsatisfying from both an emotional/character standpoint as well as from a plot point of view. As others have said, we wanted closure on Infinite and these characters but rather it seems like they just decided to make Infinite's remaining hours focus entirely on how the events of the first game get set up rather than how Infinite ends. I enjoy the plot of both Bioshock 1 and Infinite immensely as two separate entities in the same multiverse, but now that they are so closely intertwined I think it really hurts Infinite especially.
The original ending seemed to imply that when Elizabeth drowned Booker, several realities were collapsed as a result causing Elizabeth as she were, to fade out of existence. Booker then wakes up in a new reality to find Anna in her room. However, not only is BI's Elizabeth still around, but the end of her character arc is for her to set up the events of the first game. I even question her fate, because as others have pointed she could be "every" Elizabeth/Anna in the multiverse making her death definitive even in the original ending both as Elizabeth, and as Anna. Furthermore, I was led to believe that the reality Infinite took place in ceased to be given that it was brought about by Comstock's involvment, but Elizabeth is still able to travel there through a tear. This calls into question whether the baptism purge that "smothered Comstock in his crib before he was born" even worked considering Columbia is still around in the multiverse.
The original ending seemed to imply that when Elizabeth drowned Booker, several realities were collapsed as a result causing Elizabeth as she were, to fade out of existence. Booker then wakes up in a new reality to find Anna in her room. However, not only is BI's Elizabeth still around, but the end of her character arc is for her to set up the events of the first game. I even question her fate, because as others have pointed she could be "every" Elizabeth/Anna in the multiverse making her death definitive even in the original ending both as Elizabeth, and as Anna. Furthermore, I was led to believe that the reality Infinite took place in ceased to be given that it was brought about by Comstock's involvment, but Elizabeth is still able to travel there through a tear. This calls into question whether the baptism purge that "smothered Comstock in his crib before he was born" even worked considering Columbia is still around in the multiverse.
I'm just gonna treat BaS as non-canon fan fiction, its the only way for Infinite's story to make any sense or have any impact.
Alec
Member
By this point, I care most about the Lutece twins. I didn't find all of the audio dairies, but there was one I found that had Rosalind talking about how her and Robert might be re-enter physical reality again, but they would have to give up their omniscience and memories (like Elizabeth did in this episode). Beyond that audio dairy, I didn't hear anything else about it.
I assume that the Lutece twins probably end up going through with it and re-enter reality instead of existing eternally in limbo, but I don't know for sure.
I assume that the Lutece twins probably end up going through with it and re-enter reality instead of existing eternally in limbo, but I don't know for sure.
Assuming that the twins just lied through their teeth to Daisy (or at least we can't trust what they told her) what's their motivation? Infinite had us believe that Rob felt bad about the reckoning they had enabled and so brought Bookers back to stop Comstock.
This doesn't seem to mesh up with trying to manipulate Elizabeth into killing Daisy "to become a woman"why? Comstock would likely have been killed anyhow, and since Daisy's whole "complicates the narrative" line can be assumed to be an act as wellBooker, Liz, and Daisy would have teamed up and done it.
SoraanTribal
Member
That's what I believe happened as well. Like, I took that voxophone at face value and believe they went through with their plan to return to normal beings.
I missed like 2 or 3 audio logs. :/ I hope they were just audiologs from Rapture (because those mostly don't matter to me). It'd suck if I missed out on some Lutece ones, though.
----
The whole Lutece/Daisy thing was way too obvious that it was just put there based on criticism of the main game. It didn't need to be there, and I don't see how it helped. She was able to "become a woman" so that she could learn to kill? I mean, I don't deny that Elizabeth did change somewhat after that event, but... I dunno. Kind of weird to think the Luteces set that event into motion (although to be fair, they set all of the events into motion in Infinite lol).
Bedameister
Member
I also think the Luteces have big impact on the hole story. This one audio diary also made me think.
What if the Elizabeth we meet at the beginning of BaS2 in Paris is also just the Elizabeth existing in limbo like the luteces. The Elizabeth in BaS1 somehow was the last Elizabeth that actually existed in a real world and died.
If I'm not wrong the Luteces died in all universes at well letting them get into that "limbo"
So this Elizabeth from "limbo" feels guilty about Sally and re-enters reality and then sacrifices herself which is then the absolute end to all Elizabeths that ever existed.
What I still don't get then is where the Elizabeth from BaS1 comes from. In my opinion she shouldn't even exist
Anyways I'm sorry if I not get everything in this thread right or if my posts seem nonsenese. I'm not a native english speaker and the Bioshock Infinite plot with it's multiverse stuff is very complicated. Not speaking proper english doesn't make it better
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
what closure did you need? from what I gather, infinite provides the closure at the end of it's game, with a little more added in the proceeding episodes. what happened at the end of infinite, happened. they explained the multiverses at the end of Bioshock. Columbia was explained through out Infinite. All that was left was the one booker/comstock at the end after the credits rolled. That particular Booker/Comstock is the guy you play in episode 1 who also dies in episode 1.
btw, i was just joking about the MGS thing btw way.....though...that story is beyond ridiculous...
what was that?
Go explore and find out.
SoraanTribal
Member
My biggest thing is I just think Infinite ended perfectly. One of my favorite endings ever. But that was before anything was revealed about the DLC, and the most common theory was that at the end of Infinite, Elizabeth ceased to exist (with the final chime fading to black on that Elizabeth). No more Comstocks, no more Elizabeth and Columbia, etc. I actually really liked that ending. I much preferred that over Elizabeth continuing to exist, chasing down some Comstock who escaped the purge, and setting up the events of Bioshock 1. I feel like Elizabeth's death in BaS 2 had no great meaning. Her theorized "death"/ceasing to exist in Infinite was very powerful to me. She was giving up who she was and her entire existence so that she could stop the cycle of Anna -> Elizabeth/Columbia. Here, her death was so she could set up the events of Bioshock 1 and save the Little Sisters... yawn. I never really cared about them that much, and hated the ending of Bioshock 1. *shrug*
Go explore and find out.
How can you explore on a boat that only goes in one direction?
I might replay that part just to see if there's anything there, though.I assume he's referring to the "secret room", which I don't think I encountered either. I do know there was a vent system I don't think I figured out how to get into in Finkton.My biggest thing is I just think Infinite ended perfectly. One of my favorite endings ever. But that was before anything was revealed about the DLC, and the most common theory was that at the end of Infinite, Elizabeth ceased to exist (with the final chime fading to black on that Elizabeth). No more Comstocks, no more Elizabeth and Columbia, etc. I actually really liked that ending. I much preferred that over Elizabeth continuing to exist, chasing down some Comstock who escaped the purge, and setting up the events of Bioshock 1. I feel like Elizabeth's death in BaS 2 had no great meaning. Her theorized "death"/ceasing to exist in Infinite was very powerful to me. She was giving up who she was and her entire existence so that she could stop the cycle of Anna -> Elizabeth/Columbia. Here, her death was so she could set up the events of Bioshock 1 and save the Little Sisters... yawn. I never really cared about them that much, and hated the ending of Bioshock 1. *shrug*
How can you explore on a boat that only goes in one direction?
Bedameister
Member
Go explore and find out.
Oh man. Shit I'm going to replay the DLC now. There's just too much going on that I want to see again to clear out some open questions.
Hope I'll find all audio diaries this time
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I thought thats why bioshocks ending was cool. because they actually left it open. Kinda like the "inception" ending.
If you watch the bioshock ending when all the elizabeths disappear, you see all of them disappear except the one that was with booker the whole game, the screen goes to black before she disappears so they left it "open" and then booker waking up at the end cause he thought he heard anna, and they cut to black again to leave you to wonder if he really did hear anna in there or if she isn't in there. they left it completely open for debate.
which they obviously answered in episodes 1 and 2. I can see how people are bothered by it tho, if infinite was that much more impactful to them than Bioshock 1. Bioshock 1 was huge for me though, especially the ending, so the way it was all tied together, I feel is pretty cool. i dont really let plots and endings bother me to much though. I tend to accept them for what they are. I think the only ending I ever hated was probably LOST (cause it answered almost nothing) and some korean movies (just cause they ended so fucked up)
Same. And it still allows room for Bioshock 2's narrative, unlike BaS, whose retcons suffocate Bio2 of its impact.
It is neat how they're making Bioshock 1 the "ultimate" ending of the narrative, but Jack Ryan is the least interesting main character in the Bioshock universe. And seeing a woman who has known victimization her whole life, and who possesses the powers of a god sacrifice herself to Atlas in order for a mute man-baby to come around and kill everything in Rapture (except the children) robs Elizabeth of all her power. She died like Daisy died, as a person willingly giving up her narrative so that someone else's may continue. Elizabeth starts her life under the control of Comstock, spends Infinite helping and bonding with Booker, and then sacrifices her life so that Jack can return. A strong woman whose entire character arc hinges on the power-hunger of violent, megalomaniacal men. Of course, this is a simplification. I think the Liz you play as in BaS2 is the same as the one from the end of Infinite (basically, Liz travels to her dreamland Paris to live happily at the end), whereas the Liz from BaS1 is a more evil Liz who is corrupted by her powers to become the same type of exploiter she didn't want to become. BaS2 Liz is drawn into Rapture and sees what she could have become and ends up sacrificing herself to make sure it cannot happen again.
BUT - this game fully relies on the player to accept that Bioshock 1's canonical ending is that Jack Ryan saves all of the Little Sisters.
TL;DR - fuck the multiverse
SoraanTribal
Member
Oh, I found that room. It was pretty cool.
Yeah, I think that might be one reason why I liked Infinite's ending so much - it was open to interpretation and theories ran wild on that spoiler thread. Was such a fun time piecing it all together and coming up with solid theories.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Bioshock 1 - it has one of the greatest twists in the medium, but I disliked the last 25% of that game (both gameplay and story), and hated the ending. And since now Infinite has a direct link to Bioshock 1's ending... I dunno, I just don't like that.
SoraanTribal
Member
Nah, I'm sure there are some out there who liked it. It had some decent aspects to it, but I think it all comes down to if you wanted a prequel to Bioshock 1 or something more dealing with Infinite/Columbia. I think part of it might be some of us are tired of Rapture and that entire storyline (or maybe that's just me).
Any hints as to where the room is?
As for the ending of BS1... What exactly didn't you like? For me the weakness is that Jack's massive splicing never has any impact--you'd think sparing little sisters or no he'd be FUBAR after all the plasmids and tonics.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
hell naw, I loved that shit.
<edit> i know all about the room....I just wanna know what he saw in the water during the boat scene
maybe he did get FUBAR due to them though....just later on in the future....based on all of bioshock...it seems the tonics/plasmids take a while to start really fucking you up..like years of abuse.
I would agree except look at the splicers we see. They have essentially max one plasmid or tonic. You're a walking tank of gene mods--you'd figure splicing that much that quickly would matter. After all Fontaine gets turned into super Deco Man in a matter of minutes via an ADAM feed.
aGuyInaBearSuit
Member
I liked it a lot. It's interesting to see complaints coming from both ends of the spectrum: Some thought it explained things that were meant to be ambiguous, and some thought it should have explained more. Can't please everyone, I guess.
Overall, I'm very happy with it.
SoraanTribal
Member
Did you collect all 4 transmissions? You get a "hint" after that which leads to the bottles and the secret room.
And I just didn't care for the resolution of Bioshock 1 - like... leaving Rapture and freeing the Little Sisters who grow up and are at your side by your death bed. I dunno, it always felt like a really odd ending and felt kind of disconnected from the game itself. It didn't help that I didn't really care that much about the Little Sisters. They were just creepy!
Oh that one. Yeah found that no problem. I assume you can't access it unless you've found all the transmissions.Did you collect all 4 transmissions? You get a "hint" after that which leads to the bottles and the secret room.
And I just didn't care for the resolution of Bioshock 1 - like... leaving Rapture and freeing the Little Sisters who grow up and are at your side by your death bed. I dunno, it always felt like a really odd ending and felt kind of disconnected from the game itself. It didn't help that I didn't really care that much about the Little Sisters. They were just creepy!
I can sort of see where you're coming from in that Rapture's fate is left open. I really wanted a Bioshock 3 that sealed up that aspect of things.
Atraveller
Banned
So why did the Elizabeth in BaS1 wanted Sally?
Exactly.
The whole idea of only one Booker being left was all theoretical created by the fans it was never concretely said, we also had one Elizabeth left at the end of Infinite that we have no idea happened to. But, BaS even shits on this idea because apparently there isn't only one Booker left as Elziabeth has been apparently hunting down other Comstock's. Which by the way makes zero sense, if Elizabeth knows that Booker is Comstock then why would she be hunting them down instead of trying to make sure Comstock never happens by speaking with Booker.
BaS just makes everything even more needlessly convoluted while telling the predictable story about the fall of Rapture, again.
She didn't. It was all an elaborate ploy to make Comstock remember what he did before she killed him. Or something.
Atraveller
Banned
What's in the water in this boat scene?