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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
Tummi Gummi
Member
She murders for fairly limp justification in Mind in Revolt, and espouses violence in opposition to the moderates in Industrial Revolution. One of her early voxophones is:
It didn't seem like much of a leap to me.
Tractopoulpe
Member
Thanks to everyone for the thread, was really confused after the ending haha.
Ken Levine is a genius.
Ken Levine is a genius.
Oh, that's a nice touch.
No. In one case, she's strong-arming you into getting her weapons so she can lead her bloody revolution. In the other case, we see what happens when she -has- her weapons and is -leading- her revolution, and when she is backed into a corner --- willing to hurt anyone and do anything as a means to an end. The only variable between the timelines is whether she has the power to do ill; in one scenario she lacks the guns, and in the other scenario she has them. Which is precisely the point.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That's a bloody good point. I like this alot, it ties in nicely with the idea that "Columbia is a monument to Booker's sins".
What's the old saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely? I imagine Daisy in that timeline lacked someone to act as her moral compass, and she just fell down the slippery slope.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, that's a nice touch.
If the guys in glasses were so smart, why didn't they take them off?
Copyright Ricky Gervais
Finished the game late last night, haven't really had time to process it. Very dense. I'll scan through the thread later to see if my questions are discussed.
Interesting to see some people clearly upset about the Vox becoming villains. I liked it. Their methods swallowed their goals. This something we see happen regularly in our world. Saying the right things does not excuse doing the wrong things.
Interesting to see some people clearly upset about the Vox becoming villains. I liked it. Their methods swallowed their goals. This something we see happen regularly in our world. Saying the right things does not excuse doing the wrong things.
Daisy was already a proponent of brutal violence as a means to an end. It's just that in one timeline, she's forcing you to get her weapons under threat of death, and in another timeline, she already has them. The persecuted become the persecutors upon the acquisition of power.
-BLITZ-
Member
Not just this, but I also did recognize immediately the ambient sound right after you start to fight with the police, guards for the first time in Infinite.
This one can be heard like the voice of a little sister telling "birddddyyyy" in Apollo Square or one of the lastest levels. I don't know if this was set intentionally as well.
----
Oh, not just those sounds, but even the one that kicks off when you drink Lot 192, each time when the plasmids change.
0:54:15 - 0:54:22 (plasmids changes) - 0:54:42 (birdddyy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3UJgHUUNDA
Oblivionmancer
Member
Something tipped me off fairly early to the whole Elizabeth is DeWitt's daughter thing, though I can't recall what exactly; the rest of mindfuck at the end, I'm not really sure how I feel about it. I'm too fresh off it (beat it about 45 minutes ago) to go through the clearly very nice analysis in the OP, I don't have the mental bandwidth at the moment.
I still can't help feeling at least somewhat like the whole thing is just an exercise to see how many laps a game's narrative can take up its own ass before it stops being about anything at all, but maybe I'm just cranky from the lack of sleep
I still can't help feeling at least somewhat like the whole thing is just an exercise to see how many laps a game's narrative can take up its own ass before it stops being about anything at all, but maybe I'm just cranky from the lack of sleep
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I got no problems with the Vox being villains, just that they weren't fleshed out enough for my liking.
Is he Fink? I found myself wondering that in retrospect. I haven't gotten to my second playthrough yet. There was a recording on the airship behind the stage at the Raffle Fair that suggested the ringleader was a proper character, one who could use black convicts for slave labor (which jives with what we see during the fly-in to Finktown), but since Fink's significance in the overall plot was not yet established, I might not have made the connection at the time.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Yeah I didn't even realize it was Fink until much later. He just seemed like a regular showman.
So it's a different character model than the two showmen earlier in the fair? One was talking about vigors, and the other was talking about the Handyman. They were in the same plaza, and they had the same model, iirc.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
From the first page. I just finished the game but I don't remember this image ?
That's from the original Bioshock.
From the first page. I just finished the game but I don't remember this image ?
never played BioShock 1 eh?
That image is from the good ending of BioShock 1 where the Little Sisters you rescued (instead of harvesting) grow up into fine young ladies who are there with you on your death bed.
From the first page. I just finished the game but I don't remember this image ?
It parallels an image in Infinite -- namely, multiple Elizabeths putting their hands on you to send you off to death in a different way.
In retrospect, the binary choice of saving or harvesting in BioShock 1 and 2 can now be seen as alternate timelines, can't they? So they're -all- canon.
Tummi Gummi
Member
So yeah the other showmen do have different models. They all blended together when I played. Of course, Bioshock 1 reused models like absolute crazy, so...
Have we discussed the dead Lady Liberty's you encounter in Emporia? Why are they dressed like that? Some times their eyes are glowing, like the Little Sisters. I don't get it...
You meet Fink several times throughout the game. You also see his dead brother Albert (the first of the citizens to exploit the tears) in Emporia.
You meet Fink several times throughout the game. You also see his dead brother Albert (the first of the citizens to exploit the tears) in Emporia.
Tummi Gummi
Member
The whole thing with Fink, his agent and the "audition" all seemed very underutilized to me. I strongly suspect there was a lot more to that stuff in earlier versions of the game.
Aren't they Vox soldiers? "Bring me your poor, your huddled masses," etc? Would seem appropriate for the Vox to identify with Lady Liberty, much like how the Vox version of the Motorized Patriot is based on Lincoln, the Great Emancipator and president of choice for the Vox.
What I want to know is, what's up with the bull design of the Vox grenadier? Does that bull (the horned mask) represent something?
Can anyone list all of the appearances made by Fink? I'm curious if there are other places he appeared beyond the Raffle Fair and Finktown.
Yeah, I would've liked to see more Fink, but that speaks to how much I liked what we saw of him. (Don't get me wrong, he's a terrible human being for how he treats his workers, but he's still an interesting villain character.)
Yeah, I got a very strong Cohen/Fort Frolic vibe out out of it. It just seemed so similar that I wonder if there wasn't a a lot more to it that they cut out so that it didn't seem like a rehash.
ezekial45 said:
Fink's son I think. She went on about pulling them up by the "roots" and such, not just killing them.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Who are the Lady Liberties? The flying squad girls? I was wondering about the glowing masks too. I assumed the masks were part ceremonial (relating to Lady Comstock, sort of like the "Zealots of our Lady" enemies) and possibly contained some sort of protective goggles powered by something? I'm not really sure.
Yep, and I recall Levine echoing this in an interview: Give power to the oppressed, and sometimes they become just as bad as their oppressors. In this case, Daisy doesn't have the guns to show her true colors, but we see them in the revolution timeline.
Regarding the kid Daisy was holding hostage, do you think he was Fink's boy?
I assumed it was Fink's child.
Think it was Fink's son. Daisy mentions needing to dig into the root, etc.
I had the same problem. Plus, it felt like during the middle third of the game, there were barely any non-plot locks, so I kept collecting the picks. Even though there were several locks in the last third, there were tons of picks around, so I had tons of picks left over.
Also, were there more than three Vox codes in the game? That's another part that felt half-baked. Kind of like how there was only one or two power generators that you could use Shock Jockey on that weren't plot-related.
I loved the game, but it just felt like there should have been so much more! I would love a Bioshock game that was in a slower-paced, non-shooter genre so that it would be possible to explore a larger world and find lots of optional stuff and secrets.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Yeah, she talked about killing things at the root. Some people confused him with the native american kid that the hunter adopted.
Part of me is curious to see a "director's cut" with some of the scrapped content, but a larger part of me says, "No, it works so well as is, don't fuck with it." But yeah, the world's so fascinating, I can't help but want to learn more about Fink's family, or the Vox Populi, or whatever.
Of course, the DLC could potentially shed more light on all of these subjects. The DLC is supposed to take the form of three mini-campaigns, correct?
Of course, the DLC could potentially shed more light on all of these subjects. The DLC is supposed to take the form of three mini-campaigns, correct?
That line is still in the game.
30 lockpicks?! Da heck!? Mustve been on normal difficulty cos i sure as hell did not have that problem in hard.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Well Levine insists none of the DLC will be "cut content" because it was "cut for a reason". But then, they all say that
Ah, cool. It seemed like they really cut back on some of the more explicit anarchist/communist aspects of the Vox.
Speaking of which, I'm sad this storyline didn't really pan out. I was expecting to encounter them at some point.
Ha, yeah.Well Levine insists none of the DLC will be "cut content" because it was "cut for a reason". But then, they all say that
Well, way I see it, if they can repurpose some cut content, why not? I'm sure it was cut for a good reason originally, but some of it probably has cool design elements or whatever that would be worth reworking contextually for the DLC. Here's hoping we see lots of new stuff -- and learn lots of new stuff -- in the DLC campaigns.PumpkinPie
Banned
What was the purpose of the asylum with the crazy masks?
Tummi Gummi
Member
It's where Liz was brainwashed, and I assume the home of other depraved experiments like the Boys of Silence.
DLC with the injun kid scavenging for supplies like Liz
I'm there Day 1.
i'm assuming that's where the extremism has gone to a point where it's just turned into insanity for some.
DLC with the injun kid scavenging for supplies like Liz
As long as it starts with him being really stand offish, meeting Booker and then begrudgingly assisting Preston it could be glorious.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I did a little digging:
Charging Bull is a bronze statue near Wall Street (Occupy Movement?), there is The Bull Moose Party (not really a Bull but still...) which was a Progressive Party in 1912, and a Native American symbol representing beneficence, wealth and richness of life, potency, strength and courage in battle.
I got bored after that