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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |

S

symphonask

Member
I thought it was a neat touch that the priest who baptizes Booker when he first gets to Columbia is the same priest who baptized Booker/Comstock after the battle of wounded knee. If you turn on subtitles, you can see his name is Preacher Witting in both scenes.

preacherwittingyvsck.jpg
 
D

DatDude

Banned
sleeprockss said:
I played through that scene in Fort Frolic again today to see if I could hear songbird, and that sound effect is definitely there. It seems like it triggers when you go near the stage but I think the sound might just be the security camera in another room.
Click to expand...

that screech is definitely not a security camera.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
I'm so confused now, there's 2 spoiler threads. Sorry for the cross-post, but I guess this is more appropriate here now.


Maybe this has been mentioned already, but I just realized that the theme song for the game is "Will the Circle be Unbroken?". At the end, after the credits roll, we see that one last scene that begs of the question of whether the circle, or cycle if you will, actually was unbroken. (Having been supposedly broken by Booker's death).
 
D

DatDude

Banned
symphonask said:
I thought it was a neat touch that the priest who baptizes Booker when he first gets to Columbia is the same priest who baptized Booker/Comstock after the battle of wounded knee. If you turn on subtitles, you can see his name is Preacher Witting in both scenes.

preacherwittingyvsck.jpg
Click to expand...

Put that shit on the front page bruceleeroy!
 
K

Korey

Member
Posting again for new page. Anyone want to take a crack at it?



If you guys think about it, "constants and variables" doesn't make sense, even in the scope of the game.

For example, is the baptism a constant? Why is it a constant? Do we just assume it's a constant? Constant for every universe or just some?
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Korey said:
Posting again for new page. Anyone want to take a crack at it?



If you guys think about it, "constants and variables" doesn't make sense, even in the scope of the game.

For example, is the baptism a constant? Why is it a constant? Do we just assume it's a constant? Constant for every universe or just some?
Click to expand...

Any of the "constants" are constants for all universes. It is only their to be able to make the writing of the story easier. It is an "out" for the writers because it was easy to say that everything is funneled through the baptism scene and thus, a chance there changes everything. Other constants like the coin flip are just there to set the stage for a constant and variable dynamic.
 
V

Voice of Reason

Banned
Korey said:
Posting again for new page. Anyone want to take a crack at it?



If you guys think about it, "constants and variables" doesn't make sense, even in the scope of the game.

For example, is the baptism a constant? Why is it a constant? Do we just assume it's a constant? Constant for every universe or just some?
Click to expand...

I don't think a constant for some universes exist, it's either all or none. I don't think the baptism is a constant though, no where does the game lead us to believe that.
 
K

Korey

Member
Sorian said:
Any of the "constants" are constants for all universes. It is only their to be able to make the writing of the story easier. It is an "out" for the writers because it was easy to say that everything is funneled through the baptism scene and thus, a chance there changes everything. Other constants like the coin flip are just there to set the stage for a constant and variable dynamic.
Click to expand...

So you're saying the coin flip isn't a constant
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Stoze said:
I really do think the plot of this game is very interesting, and I had a good time dissecting it all, but I feel like having the infinite alternate universe plot device really trivializes the meaning behind your previous actions, and kinda dampers the whole setting of Columbia as well. It started with Booker and Elizabeth skipping through a few universes willy-nilly halfway through the game just to pick up some weapons, not really thinking about what it means to actually be in an alternate universe. I mean, did any of that shit really matter anyways? They could have entered a universe where the Vox were all killed, and at the end you just fight Comstock guys instead of Vox guys. As far as Booker and Elizabeth's actions go, where they were, when they were, and what they were doing didn't really matter until the siphon was destroyed. It was all seemingly orchestrated by random universe rifts that you enter and the Luteces.
Click to expand...

Columbia, post-baptism Booker (of either branch), and "Elizabeth" simply don't exist. In the Bioshock universes, they've technically never existed, as those timelines are all gone. But their actions ultimately did very much matter, because without the 123 or whatnot Bookers before you, and then finally you and an unshackled Elizabeth, then nothing actually changes and Comstock destroys most of civilization.

Every subsequent event is wiped out by the baptism drowning, but Booker's impact isn't negated. Quite the opposite, the fact that every possible timeline beyond Booker's baptism doesn't exist anymore conveys the sheer significance of his journey.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Voice of Reason said:
I don't think a constant for some universes exist, it's either all or none. I don't think the baptism is a constant though, no where does the game lead us to believe that.
Click to expand...

How does the game not lead us to believe that? Why hype up the whole constant and variable thing to begin with? If Booker partakes in Wounded Knee, he goes to the baptism. That is a constant.

Sorian said:
Any of the "constants" are constants for all universes. It is only their to be able to make the writing of the story easier. It is an "out" for the writers because it was easy to say that everything is funneled through the baptism scene and thus, a chance there changes everything. Other constants like the coin flip are just there to set the stage for a constant and variable dynamic.
Click to expand...

Korey said:
So you're saying the coin flip isn't a constant
Click to expand...

Reading is rough these days :/
 
E

Emarv

Member
Korey said:
Posting again for new page. Anyone want to take a crack at it?



If you guys think about it, "constants and variables" doesn't make sense, even in the scope of the game.

For example, is the baptism a constant? Why is it a constant? Do we just assume it's a constant? Constant for every universe or just some?
Click to expand...

I always assumed that's what the Lutece's were trying to figure out. Which events are actually "constants" as opposed to variables to try to find the best way to fix/manipulate the situation. Things in nature often are just "constants", so I figured the Lutece's were just trying to narrow down what they might be here. And narratively it makes sense to have reference points.
 
K

Korey

Member
Sorian said:
How does the game not lead us to believe that? Why hype up the whole constant and variable thing to begin with? If Booker partakes in Wounded Knee, he goes to the baptism. That is a constant.

Reading is rough these days :/
Click to expand...

So you're saying that constants can only be for some universes, and not all?
 
E

Emarv

Member
So, am I wrong, or is the fate of the Bioshock 1 timeline still in question? Can we be certain that in that reality (realities?) Booker accepted the baptism, meaning it is now gone? Or is it possible that that reality exists in one where Booker does not accept the baptism?

Maybe I'm missing some key fact that answers this flat-out.
 
R

ramb0211

Banned
Korey said:
Posting again for new page. Anyone want to take a crack at it?



If you guys think about it, "constants and variables" doesn't make sense, even in the scope of the game.

For example, is the baptism a constant? Why is it a constant? Do we just assume it's a constant? Constant for every universe or just some?
Click to expand...

I assume there are relative constants. The game sort of hints at this distinction when Liz takes you from the starry night lighthouse view (what I assumed represents all possible universes including Columbia, Rapture, etc.) to the Columbia-themed lighthouse view (a subset of infinite universes where Booker/Comstock exist). It represents Liz gathering all the instances to snuff out any ones where Booker accepts the baptism.
 
J

jet1911

Member
Just finished the game. My mind is blown. Just finished reading the OP. My mind is blown.

SzNux73.gif


I have a 9 months old daughter. This part gave me chills like no other game ever gave me. Fuuuuuuu. :eek:
 
S

Sorian

Banned
BeekleMatter said:
What's the significance of Slate in all this madness?
Click to expand...

To heavily foreshadow that Booker and Comstock are the same guy.

Korey said:
So you're saying that constants can only be for some universes, and not all?
Click to expand...

It depends how technical you want to get because there is two kinds of constants. There is a firm constant (coin flip) and an "If A then B" constant (If wounded knee happens then baptism)
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Guys.

Don't ask me how I figured this out, but the guys in the Fraternal Order of the Raven...

...under the hoods...

I think they're white people.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
symphonask said:
I thought it was a neat touch that the priest who baptizes Booker when he first gets to Columbia is the same priest who baptized Booker/Comstock after the battle of wounded knee. If you turn on subtitles, you can see his name is Preacher Witting in both scenes.

preacherwittingyvsck.jpg
Click to expand...

This has been blowing minds, but I thought it was pretty obvious, to the point where I was questioning whether or not the the baptism at the beginning even takes place
 
H

Hylian7

Member
About that Songbird noise thing, I noticed something else. At first I thought maybe that happened before Jack ever got to Rapture, but it had to be after. How do I know? Look what's behind the door you would have gone through in that room in the original BioShock.

iDbec9EDR1ccm.jpg
Click to expand...

In BioShock 1, the tail of the plane crashed into that tunnel and water flooded in. As soon as you got to the other side, the tunnel collapsed.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
Hylian7 said:
About that Songbird noise thing, I noticed something else. At first I thought maybe that happened before Jack ever got to Rapture, but it had to be after. How do I know? Look what's behind the door you would have gone through in that room in the original BioShock.



In BioShock 1, the tail of the plane crashed into that tunnel and water flooded in. As soon as you got to the other side, the tunnel collapsed.
Click to expand...

Glad this was finally confirmed, the destroyed walkway would indicate whether it happens before or during Bioshock 1
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Hylian7 said:
About that Songbird noise thing, I noticed something else. At first I thought maybe that happened before Jack ever got to Rapture, but it had to be after. How do I know? Look what's behind the door you would have gone through in that room in the original BioShock.



In BioShock 1, the tail of the plane crashed into that tunnel and water flooded in. As soon as you got to the other side, the tunnel collapsed.
Click to expand...

Do some people actually think the Rapture part is before Jack got there? I mean, I guess I just assumed it was during the course of Bioshock 1 but thinking on it now, I had no real evidence.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Also I think we can all agree that someone at Irrational Games played the Zero Escape series, 999: 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors and Virtue's Last Reward.

Sorian said:
Do some people actually think the Rapture part is before Jack got there? I mean, I guess I just assumed it was during the course of Bioshock 1 but thinking on it now, I had no real evidence.
Click to expand...

I had thought that at first because I thought I remembered the room being more messed up in general when you get there in BioShock 1, but I was wrong about that.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Hylian7 said:
Also I think we can all agree that someone at Irrational Games played the Zero Escape series, 999: 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors and Virtue's Last Reward.
Click to expand...

Or almost any other japanese visual novel :p

BruceLeeRoy said:
Never played it. Similar concept?
Click to expand...

You appear to really dig the turn Bioshock took. I recommend you go snatch up these games Bruce, the gameplay is lackluster but those twists and turns will throttle you.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
999 blew my mind. I almost skipped it because I didn't want to dust off my DS for an "old" game. Then I tried it, and WOW. I have no idea where that weekend went!
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Neiteio said:
999 blew my mind. I almost skipped it because I didn't want to dust off my DS for an "old" game. Then I tried it, and WOW. I have no idea where that weekend went!
Click to expand...

I think you should have gotten a tag for that LTTP. You are the sole reason I started reading neogaf.
 
M

markhimself46

Member
Loved this game. About to jump in for the second play-through now--hopefully I'll be able to understand it better; I'm still confused on some things even after reading this thread.

Speaking of this great game, anyone notice the typo in the plot synopsis on the back cover?
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
I don't hear the songbird screams and I'm getting depressed after watching fitzroy pathetically die over and over again T_T
 
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