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[Bisnic]

Oh yes, I forgot about that. Well, I stopped playing by that point so I never got to see it. Hopefully they learned something, I guess, but this generation Bioware has been incredibly childish in their handling of females, not only in ME.

So you're saying you never saw this?

She was an interesting character, and wasn't the stereotype "oh, im weak and/or unsure of some stuff, but i'm pretty and i need love!" that we see a lot in female characters.

Too bad they (Omega spoiler)

Spoiler

killed her at the end of the DLC just to make Aria go into "rage mode".

.

 

[Winterfang]

Speaking of multiplayer. Is there not way for me to raise the percent of my troops readiness beyond 50% without playing multiplayer online? I had over 6000 battle points " but only 3000+ usable ones with limits my achievements, as well as some endings.

Also the sex opportunities for femshep where very hindered, in my ME2 run I didn't slept with anyone but I still end up really like Grunt, Legion, Miranda and Jack. So there's more to human like characters than just being human enough to fuck.

 

[inky]

So you're saying you never saw this?

Nope, I didn't play any of the DLC, but now that I see you mention it, I remember being aware of her existence for the Aria DLC. I knew there were female versions in the comics, but only EatChildren reads those. She sounds alright.

I think theyre simply coming at this from a budget-time perspective-- its extremely expensive to conceptualize, render and animate a female counterpart to a new alien race in a game like Mass Effect.

For the first game maybe, but later on they were clearly conceptualizing not only female versions of Turians, but Krogan as well, and male versions of the Quarians which we saw since ME2. All the models use the same animations library too, in fact, that is the often cited reason why they don't stray too much from the humanoid form in aliens, especially as a playable race. You can cite the lack of anything in a game as a budget issue, but it is also the treatment of those characters that tells another part of the story. For example -like I mentioned- the case of EDI or even females in their other games like DA2.

 

[Lime]

Just to add something to this thread, besides Bioware's exemplary display of laziness (animation work), incompetence (stock photos in a multi-million game) and lack of imagination (lipstick on female versions of races, seriously?), here are the concept art back in ME1 for how they imagined the Quarians to look like beneath the mask. You can even see the little picture of Rhodes' "definitional" view on Tali

 

[Nirolak]

Just to add something to this thread, besides Bioware's exemplary display of laziness, incompetence and lack of imagination, here are the concept art back in ME1 for how they imagined the Quarians to look like beneath the mask.

The first one in the OP is Rhodes' final design for ME1.

 

[Lime]

The first one in the OP is Rhodes' final design for ME1.

I know, like I wrote in my post, you can even see a small picture of the Rhodes' final face design of Tali. I just posed the picture to add to the topic's understanding of how the creative process of designing the race went back then (notice the pig face concept :lol).

 

[AlimNassor]

I empathize with pets but I empathize in a deeper way with people and hold them in a higher regard. The closer the aliens are to humans, the more empathy I have. I don't care how smart the are, Rachni are just speaking animals to me.

That's why is important to have humanoid looking aliens in a series where the interaction isn't just shooting each other.

Wow. That's some fucked up logic. So no matter how smart, no matter how similar an alien is to us if they don't look exactly like us you don't feel empathy for them?

 

[Nirolak]

I know, like I wrote in my post, you can even see a small picture of the Rhodes' final face design of Tali. I just posed the picture to add to the topic's understanding of how the creative process of designing the race went back then (notice the pig face concept :lol).

I'm kind of curious to see if they redesign them again, given they don't seem opposed to doing that (*points at Qunari and Elves*), there's no actual in game models, and it's a generational shift.

That said I still expect them to look like humans, but perhaps not... literally exactly like humans with some face paint on.

 

[Winterfang]

Just to add something to this thread, besides Bioware's exemplary display of laziness (animation work), incompetence (stock photos in a multi-million game) and lack of imagination (lipstick on female versions of races, seriously?), here are the concept art back in ME1 for how they imagined the Quarians to look like beneath the mask. You can even see the little picture of Rhodes' "definitional" view on Tali

All of those look pretty cool. LOL at the pig one, Would be a big trolling.

Wow. That's some fucked up logic. So no matter how smart, no matter how similar an alien is to us if they don't look exactly like us you don't feel empathy for them?

What are you talking about? that's not what I said.

 

[xam3l]

This makes me wish for a remake/reboot of the series with these designs...

 

[Nirolak]

Wow. That's some fucked up logic. So no matter how smart, no matter how similar an alien is to us if they don't look exactly like us you don't feel empathy for them?

This shouldn't be too surprising. I mean BioWare didn't pull this notion out of thin air, they presumably got it from focus testing.

We also live in a world where even after thousands of years, we still have people who can't empathize with each other simply because they have a different color of skin. Not being able to empathize with a non-humanoid creature probably hits a notably larger selection of people.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Wow. That's some fucked up logic. So no matter how smart, no matter how similar an alien is to us if they don't look exactly like us you don't feel empathy for them?

It's something people have to try very hard to overcome. There's a racial bias in us all. People have trouble identifying with something that doesn't physically look like them.

 

[Lime]

This shouldn't be too surprising. I mean BioWare didn't pull this notion out of thin air, they presumably got it from focus testing.

Which is pretty funny, seeing how one of the series' central themes is overcoming differences between races and sympathizing in one way or another with "creatures" without comparable human traits (Paragon playthrough at least).

It just seems to me like the creative reliance on narrative conflicts exclusive to the human race completely hampered and shot down this central racial theme, most specifically in ME3, with the design motivation for using Earth and Annoying Human Kid Who Dies as the central emotional weight of the game. It flies into the face of the purpose of the "overcoming differences" theme of the prior games. So much for "artistic integrity" if focus testing has the power to completely reverse and contradict prior established themes.

 

[MikeDown]

It is a shame Rhodes felt pressured/had second thoughts about not releasing some of his artwork, it is a sad day when immature public backlash suppresses artistic talent.

 

[MikeDown]

It's something people have to try very hard to overcome. There's a racial bias in us all. People have trouble identifying with something that doesn't physically look like them.

Exactly, if we are fighting some giant disgusting looking space monster we would have no seconds thoughts about killing it. If your slaying slarians, qunari or bactarians chances are you might have some after thoughts about it. Plus a humanoid reselpmence is also easier from a design persepctive also.

 

[54-46!]

If Bioware had some balls they should've went with that original Tali design. The rage of everyone who romanced her would've been hilarious.

"But she doesn't look human!!"

Well no shit, she is a fucking alien who has a gas mask on 99% of the time.

 

[Nikodemos]

If Bioware had some balls they should've went with that original Tali design. The rage of everyone who romanced her would've been hilarious.

I dunno, I find the original ME "sexy Grey" concept rather attractive.

 

[Gbraga]

Baby Reaper is godlike

 

[shinobi602]

Hopefully they learned something, I guess, but this generation Bioware has been incredibly childish in their handling of females, not only in ME.

Interesting, I've always thought females in their games were pretty badass, in Mass Effect at least.

 

[Lime]

Interesting, I've always thought females in their games were pretty badass, in Mass Effect at least.

Some are good, some aren't, both in terms of writing and design. Off the top of my head:

• EDI is a sexbot with an actual visible cameltoe meant to pander.
• The camera presentation of Miranda in cutscenes is the definition of male gaze
• The "sexualization" of Ashley from ME1->ME3.
• Samara's revealing cleavage
• Liara and Tali being weak and helpless when it comes to their relationship to Shep (this has more to do with how Bioware always fellate the player in their design than with any specific perception of gender)
• Those two female crewmen in 2 and 3 who seemed to exist to have sex with Shepard

I think Bioware's primary problem has more to do with their design philosophy of making their recent games pander more, by 1. constantly stroking the player ego (Space Jesus), but also 2. increasingly making everything with two legs being "romanceable" (aka dialogue trees equal sex). As such, the characters of the narrative are impacted and affected by this particular design philosophy, thus resulting in them pandering and being subordinate to the player.

 

[Dark Octave]

Turians kind of look like the main characters from Army of Two.

That "gross" alien concept would have been VERY interesting. Imagine this guy/girl wanting so bad to either be human, or not offend humans to the point of being willing to attempt to alter it's looks. The struggle between those who are disgusted by it, those who try to be social with it but struggle and then those who all out accept and defend it. The struggle between it being a great asset to the team and it dividing the team as well. Maybe it stinks, maybe you feel sorry for it, maybe it has a bad Javik type attitude that make you hate it, maybe it's just badass and that makes you love it. This creature needs to be in the next ME.

As for Tali, nothing would be scarier than spending three games and six or seven years wondering what she looked like to discover this was staring back at you the whole time:

Nope!

 

[inky]

Interesting, I've always thought females in their games were pretty badass, in Mass Effect at least.

Some are good, some aren't, both in terms of writing and design. Off the top of my head:

*stuff*

Pretty much what Lime said. They can be both, and they usually are, so it clashes when they try to make them strong characters but also objects of desire that are only there to pander to a male audience --and we know it is pandering, because some decisions to make certain characters into love interests (or sexy robots in the case of EDI) comes directly from fan feedback backlash. Some male characters suffer from this too, but not nearly as much.

The most memorable moment involving females in ME3 for me was a small conversation between my own female Shepard and the female Krogan in the med bay. It felt so honest and credible that I know they can write good stuff, but when they need all the other bullshit around it certainly feels they are not convinced they can make good female characters without it. Dr. Chakwas is another example of a character that doesn't suffer from this, which makes sense and makes her a much better character even if she is a bit one-note.

 

[Bisnic]

I always liked Samara, be it in ME2 or during the Asari monastery mission and Citadel DLC in ME3. She's that strong, wise and mysterious Asari,

Spoiler

and believes so much in her Justicar Code, that she was willing to commit suicide(and can even succeed if Shepard doesn't stop her) to prevent herself from killing her Ardhat Yakshi daughter.

And i also love her voice. The big visible cleavage of her armor was really unnecessary for such a character. Even Liara didn't get that, and you can romance her!

I hope Bioware Montreal can avoid this kind of unnecessary stuff in ME4. At least, they didn't try to make Nyreen into a sexy female Turian in the Omega DLC.

 

[Winterfang]

Turians kind of look like the main characters from Army of Two.

That "gross" alien concept would have been VERY interesting. Imagine this guy/girl wanting so bad to either be human, or not offend humans to the point of being willing to attempt to alter it's looks. The struggle between those who are disgusted by it, those who try to be social with it but struggle and then those who all out accept and defend it. The struggle between it being a great asset to the team and it dividing the team as well. Maybe it stinks, maybe you feel sorry for it, maybe it has a bad Javik type attitude that make you hate it, maybe it's just badass and that makes you love it. This creature needs to be in the next ME.

As for Tali, nothing would be scarier than spending three games and six or seven years wondering what she looked like to discover this was staring back at you the whole time:

Nope!

That doesn't look bad, heck if she had hair or some close to it (asari tentacles, turian crest, salarians horns) she would be more human looking than a lot of races. I don't see how some scientist didn't simply invented some clear gas mask or something, so that you can see their faces inside their helmet.

I like characters like Vega, he teased my femshep a lot but when she flirted bad, he got very nervous. Is he Gay or just shy? No idea since I don't have a male shepard but it was still a fun dynamic.

Karin was also a nicely written character that's not there sexually available. So are Grunt and Legion. I always thought Grunt would eventually see my main character as his mother/father figure but it never happened.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Just wanted to pop in and say that there's a book with a lot of the Mass Effect concept art in it. I was browsing it over the weekend.

And now I'm bailing before I read any ME3 spoilers. I'm slow getting to that game.

 

[inky]

I liked Samara as well. Her face is so interesting and attractive too that it is pretty much the only thing that needed to stand out.

 

[Winterfang]

I liked Samara as well. Her face is so interesting and attractive too that it is pretty much the only thing that needed to stand out.

She is a total milf. And yeah she had some kind of old timey beauty to her and nice face expressions. (although sometime she seems to be like she is surprised all the time) I didn't mind the cleavage but the rest of her outfit was basically a bathing suit, I liked the alternate better, the coloring was cooler.

 

[Nirolak]

Looking at this again, I would like to note how much more sense the upper left design for Flemeth makes. For one, it has a wilderness theme, which fits her as Witch of the Wilds. The subtle dragon wings under her coat do a better job of indicating she can turn into a dragon without announcing it with sledgehammer level bluntness, and she actually still looks like you would expect an old woman to dress.

Just wanted to pop in and say that there's a book with a lot of the Mass Effect concept art in it. I was browsing it over the weekend.

And now I'm bailing before I read any ME3 spoilers. I'm slow getting to that game.

Yes, they also just released one for Dragon Age.

 

[Lime]

I liked Samara as well. Her face is so interesting and attractive too that it is pretty much the only thing that needed to stand out.

I liked her jaw. It's so rare to see female video game characters with what is culturally considered masculine features.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Kaz!?

 

[Winterfang]

I liked her jaw. It's so rare to see female video game characters with what is culturally considered masculine features.

Yeah, I can only compare it to some kind of European Supermodel. Extremely attractive.

I never found Tali to be amazing, I dislike her personality, she always came across as unsincere to me. Like she was hiding something.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Shepard being rebuilt with reaper parts and having the Virmire survivor being the primary antagonist would have made for a way cooler Mass Effect 2

I'm pretty certain some variation of this was the main plotline for ME2 for quite some time before they changed it all to the dull-fest it is now. It certainly ties in with a lot of stuff that happens in that game, especially at the beginning. As for the other designs, they look pretty cool, but there was zero chance of getting the more unconventional designs(particularly Tali's original face) in the game with EA breathing down their necks.

Edit:

Some are good, some aren't, both in terms of writing and design. Off the top of my head:

• EDI is a sexbot with an actual visible cameltoe meant to pander.
• The camera presentation of Miranda in cutscenes is the definition of male gaze
• The "sexualization" of Ashley from ME1->ME3.
• Samara's revealing cleavage
• Liara and Tali being weak and helpless when it comes to their relationship to Shep (this has more to do with how Bioware always fellate the player in their design than with any specific perception of gender)
• Those two female crewmen in 2 and 3 who seemed to exist to have sex with Shepard

I think Bioware's primary problem has more to do with their design philosophy of making their recent games pander more, by 1. constantly stroking the player ego (Space Jesus), but also 2. increasingly making everything with two legs being "romanceable" (aka dialogue trees equal sex). As such, the characters of the narrative are impacted and affected by this particular design philosophy, thus resulting in them pandering and being subordinate to the player.

There was also the interview where they said there were so few female Turians because they couldn't figure out how to make them look sexy. What happened to you, Bioware

 

[UnluckyKate]

This is loads better than the T-1000 we had in ME2.

Yeah I see a lot of concepts and I can't believe we had such generic choices in the end for most parts

 

[Toxi]

The only games I can think of where the finished product matches up to the concept art is the Metroid Prime series.

 

[HK-47]

So you're saying you never saw this?

She was an interesting character, and wasn't the stereotype "oh, im weak and/or unsure of some stuff, but i'm pretty and i need love!" that we see a lot in female characters.

Too bad they (Omega spoiler)

Spoiler

killed her at the end of the DLC just to make Aria go into "rage mode".

.

They did?

Spoiler

Whelp thats it for Turian females I guess.

 

[Bisnic]

They did?

Spoiler

Whelp thats it for Turian females I guess.

There was a female Turian in the Citadel DLC(although of very minor importance, Shepard tried to force Garrus into flirting with her), and not to mention the multiplayer mode.

 

[inky]

The only games I can think of where the finished product matches up to the concept art is the Metroid Prime series.

Guild Wars 2 comes to mind.

 

[Syntax]

As for Tali, nothing would be scarier than spending three games and six or seven years wondering what she looked like to discover this was staring back at you the whole time:

Nope!

That's precisely the point of having the Quarian design in general, and Tali specifically, be less human. It would test any connection or investment a player made into the Tali character against her appearance and the any prejudices the player might have.

Canonically she's just a space babe now. Moreover she's just one aspect of a universe that could have been done better but for whatever reason Bioware chose not to go whole hog into.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Looking at this again, I would like to note how much more sense the upper left design for Flemeth makes. For one, it has a wilderness theme, which fits her as Witch of the Wilds. The subtle dragon wings under her coat do a better job of indicating she can turn into a dragon without announcing it with sledgehammer level bluntness, and she actually still looks like you would expect an old woman to dress.



Yes, they also just released one for Dragon Age.

Didn't even notice the dragon wings. Too bad we ended up with Grandma Ultimecia instead.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

What I wanted to maintain was a slight “goofiness” to their appearance. I think that if you try to design something to be cool, it will fail. The best designs (especially designs for characters that are meant to be scary or intimidating) are ones that maintain a percentage of goofiness.

What do you know, it's actually true:

A space ninja in a world of space marines who was neither intimidating nor scary. For a villain and Shepard's "rival", he was a really weak character.


And I can't believe how many of those arts look better than what we ended up with in both ME and Dragon Age. Just look at Flementh - all those designs are a lot better and don't clash at all with her character in Origin; unlike the the sexed-up grandma with ridiculous haircut from Dragon Age 2.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I fucking love the look of the Mass Effect universe... god damn...