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[samn]

. Cancelled meetings was also clearly due to being being blindsided as his campaign hadn't grown to the point of full articulation of his race-specific stances.

Well that's kinda the point.

Anyway I think we can all agree we all at least sort of like Bernie and are happy he's focusing on these issues then that's all great great for us

 

[soleil]

It's not a matter of mattering, it's a matter of "please stop bringing up past good deeds" and bring up what he's doing now. That's what people want to hear. Bringing up Hillary's past misdeeds is valid because there needs to be evidence that she outgrew it. We need to make Hillary honest and keep Bernie honest - treating his track record as all that he needs isn't going to do that.

If two candidates are both promising you the same thing, wouldn't their past deeds be the tiebreaker to decide who actually means it?

Well that's kinda the point.

Anyway I think we can all agree we all at least sort of like Bernie and are happy he's focusing on these issues then that's all great great for us

Well tell that to Kid Kamikaze. I was answering his question.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

Moving goalposts.

Especially since these activists (same at both events) weren't BLM but instead weirdos who think the Democratic Party is the real racists and a bunch of other nonsense not limited to Palin being good in any way. Netroots was a sham and when people are shouting that they're going to burn this shit down there's not any real discourse that can be had, and threats of violence, literal or not, doesn't really create the best environment for constructive political alliance building.

This editorial is long, but also fantastic.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If two candidates are both promising you the same thing, wouldn't their past deeds be the tiebreaker to decide who actually means it?

But this isn't a discussion of "who do we vote for?". Someone made the "why look at Hillary's past? I thought past didn't matter". That's why this discussion is occurring.

Especially since these activists (same at both events) weren't BLM but instead weirdos who think the Democratic Party is the real racists and a bunch of other nonsense not limited to Palin being good in any way. Netroots was a sham and when people are shouting that they're going to burn this shit down there's not any real discourse that can be had, and threats of violence, literal or not, doesn't really create the best environment for constructive political alliance building.

This editorial is long, but also fantastic.

This isn't the first time you brought up her support of Palin. Do you have anything other than a Facebook post of her talking about wearing a Palin pin years ago as a teenager whose parents were Tea Party members?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Cancelling the meetings is the only misstep Sanders has made on this issue IMO. To me that shows a supreme level of not giving a fuck.

 

[soleil]

But this isn't a discussion of "who do we vote for?". Someone made the "why look at Hillary's past? I thought past didn't matter". That's why this discussion is occurring.

If you're discussing why people bring up Sanders' past, the answer is because they're arguing who deserves your vote.

Cancelling the meetings is the only misstep Sanders has made on this issue IMO. To me that shows a supreme level of not giving a fuck.

The cancelled meetings were with the same people who crashed his speech, and like I said, he was frazzled. He came out for other events with minorities later on in the same day and said "I'm being honest here. Tell me what you need." A human being (a genuine one, not one coached what to say), needs time to gather himself.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If you're discussing why people bring up Sanders' past, the answer is because they're arguing who deserves your vote.

No, we're discussing a silly equivalence of bringing up Hillary's past to bringing up Bernie's past. It's not a discussion about who you should vote for.

 

[soleil]

No, we're discussing a silly equivalence of bringing up Hillary's past to bringing up Bernie's past. It's not a discussion about who you should vote for.

It is to the people who keep bringing up his past. Just because you don't want to discuss who to vote for doesn't mean others aren't discussing things with the vote at the back of their minds.

 

[uncelestial]

After meeting with Hillary:


Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

I am for Black Lives Matter absolutely, but let's be realistic about how much you can expect a candidate to flagellate themselves.

 

[PhoenixDark]

After meeting with Hillary:


Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

Amateur hour.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It is to the people who keep bringing up his past. Just because you don't want to discuss who to vote for doesn't mean others aren't discussing things with the vote at the back of their minds.

Okay

But that's not what the discussion is about

I'm thinking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but that's nothing to do with the discussion. The discussion is over this:

" It's interesting that they're now demanding she answer for her record. I thought records don't matter. No one cares what you did x years ago, and all that jazz."

It was a shitty attempt at a "gotcha".

After meeting with Hillary:


Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

I don't think that they meant it literally.

 

[soleil]

After meeting with Hillary:
https://twitter.com/gdebenedetti/status/631221732221800448

(picture)

Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

I am for Black Lives Matter absolutely, but let's be realistic about how much you can expect a candidate to flagellate themselves.

So the alternative is what, for Black Lives Matter to NOT call it like it is?

Okay

But that's not what the discussion is about

Not to you, and I get that. But clearly, it is to a lot of people you're conversing with. You can't control what others want to talk about. If two people are talking to each other, and Person A is discussing it with the vote in mind, and Person B is discussing it without the vote in mind, who is to say which person gets to "decide" what the discussion is about?

 

[uncelestial]

I don't think that they meant it literally.

How did they mean it? Serious question, I'm just totally lost at what that statement means.

So the alternative is what, for Black Lives Matter to NOT call it like it is?

Serious? I mean. It is probably true that she didn't say in this meeting that "I have done x thing which perpetuated white supremacist violence," but not only would I not expect that, I don't see how that's constructive. Presuming they want to get priority for their issues on her platform, getting there via Hillary admitting to causing racial oppression is a bizarre vision of success.

 

[samn]

How did they mean it? Serious question, I'm just totally lost at what that statement means.

I'm guessing they just want her to say the typical 'yeah that stuff I was involved in had unintended consequences it's one of my regrets when I look back bla bla that's why more recently I did X and in my campaign I'm pushing for Y'

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

After meeting with Hillary:


Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

I am for Black Lives Matter absolutely, but let's be realistic about how much you can expect a candidate to flagellate themselves.

Bill did. But beyond that, of course they were going ask her stuff like that. That's the whole point of their movement; to stop state violence and white supremacy. Which she did perpetuate through her "tough on crime" programs.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How did they mean it? Serious question, I'm just totally lost at what that statement means.

"A reflection" is basically like "an inkling" or "a hint" or whatever. Of course they didn't expect her to say "I believe in white supremacy" or whatever.

 

[Infinite]

After meeting with Hillary:


Wow, you really expect someone running for president whose campaign appearances you are disrupting to spontaneously offer that she personally perpetuates white supremacist violence?

I am for Black Lives Matter absolutely, but let's be realistic about how much you can expect a candidate to flagellate themselves.

You mistake these young people for politicians or pragmatists.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

You mistake these young people for politicians or pragmatists.

Also this. If you want more of these cats, form your own squad or find them.

 

[soleil]

How did they mean it? Serious question, I'm just totally lost at what that statement means.


Serious? I mean. It is probably true that she didn't say in this meeting that "I have done x thing which perpetuated white supremacist violence," but not only would I not expect that, I don't see how that's constructive. Presuming they want to get priority for their issues on her platform, getting there via Hillary admitting to causing racial oppression is a bizarre vision of success.

Hillary pushed for the "tough on crime" policies. If she didn't admit it, then what evidence do we have that she honestly understands how she contributed to the problem? There's a difference between taking what your campaign staff calculates to be the best policy and actually sincerely believing in a policy. They probably want to know which one applies to her. If she can't admit she's been part of the problem, there's less reason to think she ACTUALLY changed her mind on the issue, and more reason to think she's just saying whatever her team has calculated as being the best thing to say.

 

[ModBot]

Bernie's particular case has been covered in depth, so let's either make a new thread for BLM/Hillary or just make a BLM thread -- which is probably a good idea, since BLM encompasses more than just these protests.