Bogus argument detected. Cheating can reduce game popularity without reducing it to zero, so there's still lots of scenarios where Blizzard loses money from the cheat while the cheat company makes some money from it. Think of a parasite weakening the host without killing it outright.
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Blizzard sues Overwatch "cheat" maker for copyright infringement
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
Bogus argument detected. Cheating can reduce game popularity without reducing it to zero, so there's still lots of scenarios where Blizzard loses money from the cheat while the cheat company makes some money from it. Think of a parasite weakening the host without killing it outright.
That's right Blizzard kick cheaters out!!
You know, I'm not sure the gif of kicking an innocent dog off a bridge is thaat appropiate here XD
I don't see Blizzard winning with the arguments outlined. I get why they're taking this angle though as I'm not sure there are appropiate laws to stop cheating in multiplayer videogames.
It can hurt game sales and easier said than done
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Reductionist, shortsighted, superficial and corporate apologist, well done.
Abstrusity
Member
Yeaaaah, I don't think legal action is the best way to go about it.
Banning people who were using it, sure. I can understanf the righteous fury.
But what do they hope to accomplish by suing a German business, in California, outside of creating a precedent that allows companies to sue anyone who gets into files, including mod makers?
Banning people who were using it, sure. I can understanf the righteous fury.
But what do they hope to accomplish by suing a German business, in California, outside of creating a precedent that allows companies to sue anyone who gets into files, including mod makers?
Does german law have the same "sue them into bankruptcy" thing where it doesn't matter if the other side really has a case as long as they can extend the case long enough that the other side drowns in legal fees? That's what /most/ of these cases like this are for here in the states.
In that case it was deemed that the player has the right to modify their own cartridge for personal fun, but this is different. You're purchasing a license to play Overwatch online and Blizzard can revoke that at any time if you breach their terms. Plus, this is personal enjoyment at the expense of others' enjoyment. A bit different to enabling infinite lives on a single player game on your NES.
Nope
Phoenix944
Member
rains from above!
They can revoke the license sure, but sue someone in court over violating an EULA seems over the hill. Especially considering EU law.
The second that cheating becomes prolific is the second that many people will stop evangelizing the game and will, themselves, move on to another game.
Fuck cheaters
It isn't at all.
That'd be true for Ubisoft games.
Blizzard wants to take out the spawn point rather than picking off the mob.
KojiKnight
Member
EULA aren't legally enforceable in the EU, and they have to show there are damages
This is going to get laughed out of court in Germany, as usual.
While i don't particularly appreciate the tool, "Breaking EULA" is not unlawful, lol. Bossland never agreed to that EULA, obviously.
And copyright? Products which require another product are legal.
The correct way is to do it MobA-style - Conditional replication of variables, server-side, where no client gets information it shouldn't have.
This is just digging through the RAM and displaying information that's actually available to the client - I wonder why FPSs don't fix that. Server load for the visibility checks, probably...
A properly done aimbot, though, i really wouldn't know how to prevent.
While i don't particularly appreciate the tool, "Breaking EULA" is not unlawful, lol. Bossland never agreed to that EULA, obviously.
And copyright? Products which require another product are legal.
The correct way is to do it MobA-style - Conditional replication of variables, server-side, where no client gets information it shouldn't have.
This is just digging through the RAM and displaying information that's actually available to the client - I wonder why FPSs don't fix that. Server load for the visibility checks, probably...
A properly done aimbot, though, i really wouldn't know how to prevent.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Have you tried playing The Division on PC?
Maybe I misunderstood, but isn't the filing in California?
I thought they were suing them in California, not Germany.
They're being sued in California, not Germany.
Though it seems this is utterly irrelevant, since the cheat-maker company has no presence in the US.
If Blizzard wins, that probably has zero effect on anything.
They can already sue mod makers that charge for their mods
These guys are charging a MONTHLY subscription for their cheats. I dont think this would have any effect whatsoever on regular modding.
hobblygobbly
Member
The EU doesn't recognise things such as games (not just games, lots of digital media) as licenses - software licenses are very specific for the EU such as enterprise software licenses regarding agreements between a vendor or whatever with companies otherwise things such as video games are just seen as entertainment products under EU law. As such you can do absolutely anything you want with what you own, including reverse engineering as long as reverse engineering doesn't enable competitors (i.e going to go work for them) or you make money from it (a whole different issue).
Again with the law when you get technical with it, Blizzard cannot revoke it from what they say in their EULA because again, EULA is not enforceable within the EU. Nobody really takes a company to court if they get banned from a game but it is not allowed, if you have to get banned from a game you are entitled to a full refund according to the EU since a company cannot take away something that is seen as a product (even if their EULA says they can but it holds no weight)
(I am not a lawyer, it's just what I generally know of EU laws & consumer protection law)
King Gilga
Member
Go gettem blizzard.
It ain't going to court in the EU
And so, what effect does this have even if Blizzard wins?
Technically selling the cheat thing would probably be illegal in the US then, but what prevents US customers from buying it from a German site running on German servers?
hobblygobbly
Member
I know, but I'm just talking about how games aren't licenses in the EU in response. For example if I had to get banned from Overwatch right now for cheating myself Blizzard is obliged to owe me a full refund if I am an EU Citizen.
Nonetheless, I don't see what Blizzard can really achieve here in the end against them specifically.
Also, Bossland is the maker of the most popular bot for WoW, and blizzard tries to sue them into oblivion twice a year. Haven't made a dent yet, and actually lost a pair with attorney fees etc.
Which is just as it should be, honestly. I may not like cheats, but the wider issue of products-requiring-a-third-party-product is far more important.
Yes, but Bossland is in Germany, and the only thing a lawsuit in Cali is going to help is winning the one in Germany, which actually matters...
... And the court in Germany isn't going to care one bit about what the Cali court said.
Grey area. Licenses are even technically transferable in the EU, by law, but companies will get 0 shits until they get sued for it.
Also, the part about cheating in the EULA probably stands in court. It's the stupid catch-all ones like "Blizzard deserves the right to deny you the service you paid for for any reason" that don't.
There's also the shtick where to make an EULA valid in the EU at all, it has to be agreed to before the purchase - I think Blizzard may actually get away with it, especially with digital b.net copies.
I think that's also why some companies are moving from permabans to cheater-only servers.
Which is just as it should be, honestly. I may not like cheats, but the wider issue of products-requiring-a-third-party-product is far more important.
Yes, but Bossland is in Germany, and the only thing a lawsuit in Cali is going to help is winning the one in Germany, which actually matters...
... And the court in Germany isn't going to care one bit about what the Cali court said.
Grey area. Licenses are even technically transferable in the EU, by law, but companies will get 0 shits until they get sued for it.
Also, the part about cheating in the EULA probably stands in court. It's the stupid catch-all ones like "Blizzard deserves the right to deny you the service you paid for for any reason" that don't.
There's also the shtick where to make an EULA valid in the EU at all, it has to be agreed to before the purchase - I think Blizzard may actually get away with it, especially with digital b.net copies.
I think that's also why some companies are moving from permabans to cheater-only servers.
Lonewulfeus
Member
If pro-cheaters and corporate apologist are my two options I think I know which one I'd choose
it's corporate apologist
mysocksarepink
Banned
Didn't blizzard do this year's go with a WOW bot maker and inevitably lose?
Complistic
Member
I love how so many here think they know more than blizzards entire legal team
It can.
USA courts granted for Blizzard in 2006, mainly under Tortious Interference, and the fact that WoW is licensed, not sold.
Neither argument would hold water in an European court, unless Blizzard specified in the EULA that it guarantees a cheater-free environment - in that case, it'd be tortious interference to cheat, but legit users could sue if they meet cheaters. Blizzard isn't going to do that.
I have no idea if this is gonna work (and my natural cynicism tells me it won't) but good on Blizzard for trying. Multiplayer cheaters are scum and the people that make cheats are scum for enabling them. These people are complicit in and profiting off of having assholes ruin Overwatch for people, which is awful on every level.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Is there even a way for Blizz to find out you're using this tool or is it basically playing with fire? I'm only curious, because I don't know anyone crazy enough willing to risk their battle.net account for a couple extra kills in ranked.
Nice slippery slope fallacy there champ
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Great news, fuck anyone who cheats and doubly fuck anyone who makes them.
Technically is (Process list monitoring), technically a violation of privacy, lots of companies do it anyway, tool makers encrypt the process signatures to bypass that.
Tool usage banwaves are generally behavioral triggers \ input analysis.
Blizzard should start to design their games with better protection instead.
Why does the client knows where everyone is at all times?
If the client wasn't aware, things like "wallhacks" wouldn't work.
Ban players that cheat and design the game securer from the ground-up.
edit: beaten
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Well, they sued the same company over a WoW bot and a HotS bot and lost... maybe they don't know what they are doing after all?
Why does the client knows where everyone is at all times?
If the client wasn't aware, things like "wallhacks" wouldn't work.
Ban players that cheat and design the game securer from the ground-up.
edit: beaten
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Well, they sued the same company over a WoW bot and a HotS bot and lost... maybe they don't know what they are doing after all?
The Lamonster
Member
Rain from above, Blizzard.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Yeah like how they sued Valve over Dota 2 lol.
StrangeTaco
Member
Not sure how well this lawsuit will do but good on Blizzard for taking active steps to prevent cheating. Been very happy overall with how active Blizzard has been with Overwatch.
No offense but this comment shows just how little you know about anti-cheat and game design. It's a complicated process and it's not like Blizzard can just wave a magic wand and make all cheats impossible.
No offense but this comment shows just how little you know about anti-cheat and game design. It's a complicated process and it's not like Blizzard can just wave a magic wand and make all cheats impossible.
There are cheat tools that work at DirectX/openGL level and check for the meshes transforms and it has nothing to do with the Client/Server model.
Agreed.
Explain me why the client needs to know the position of every player and their health etc? There is no reason for the client to know the exact health and position of an enemy player that is across the map.
AFAIK: there are no "map hacks" for Dota 2 for example.