buncha stuff.
So based on your break down the messengers are the failed attempts by the Mensis attempting to create the one reborn?
buncha stuff.
Interesting points, but it seems clear to me Rom is maintaining the veil. Yes, the night deepens, so to speak, after Vicar Amelia, but the "true moon" of the Great Ones only appears after Rom has been slain.
Regarding Rom's behavior, I didn't interpret it as a "lack of aggression," so much as being defensive. Rom would rather not fight you, if only because he's too valuable to the Great Ones. That's why his minions surround him and he continually backs away. He's a foothold for the Great Ones in the human world, a cloaking device that conceals their activities (called "rituals" in the game) from the eyes of men.
Whereas other monsters will go all-out attacking you, the Great Ones don't want to risk anything happening to Rom, so he fights back only in self-defense. Until then, he merely surrounds himself with defenses and backs away.
I think people have duped 99+ Dregs and not gotten anything past the gesture.
No, because the Mensis cultists already see the unseen. They even reside in a place called the Unseen Village, lol.I'm not so sure. Keep in mind that the game takes place over one night, and there are notes scattered through the game about the Paleblood ritual taking place that night. The Mensis cultists are doing their thang on the night of the hunt, and the way I took it, they just happened to complete the ritual after you kill Rom. The Paleblood moon is what lifts the veil, not Rom. If Rom had anything to do with it, wouldn't the Mensis cultists be running into the lake to kill Rom?
I found the lore of Dark Souls intoxicating. I don't have a PS4 and might not ever get the chance to play Bloodborne. I had to have a peek in here...
...and thank christ I did! One look is enough to tell me this is not my bag (baby).
Give me the good old high fantasy of Dark souls over this horrific drinking blood eating umbilical chord fighting god baby craziness any day!
I'm out of here.
Hope you all enjoy the game
So in chronological order, it would appear that some of the key concepts are:
- The Great Ones: A race of elder gods or "old cosmic horrors" in the vein of Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos. They propagate their kind by selecting humans as surrogate mothers, producing lesser monsters and, on rare occasions, new Great Ones. They exist in an alternate dimension, overlapping the human dimension, but hidden from human sight by Rom the Vacuous Spider, who may or may not have been a student at Bygernwerth, but is now something similar to a Great One, maintaining the veil.
- Pthumerians: A first race of men, like the Hyperboreans in other fiction, predating the modern-day city of Yharnam by eons.
- Queen Yharnham, ruler of the ancient Pthumerians, who the Great Ones chose as the surrogate mother for a new Great One. Perhaps the Great One she birthed is the one simply called Moon Presence, which takes the form of the red moon. It appears she became something akin to a vampire or undead, and is the source of the blood that the Healing Church uses to cure the ill and mend the wounded. She is also likely the "holy medium" the church found in the tombs of the elder gods deep beneath the city, and who allowed the church's ruling class, the Choir, to establish contact with the Great Ones.
- Moon Presence: Speculation on my part, but as I said earlier, the Moon Presence might be trying to reproduce itself. It may have brought about the dream-like state Yharnham now finds itself in, including the Plague of Beasts, and the Hunt it necessitates, which would lead to the discovery of a warrior strong enough to serve as a surrogate for the infant Great One. This would explain how it appears to hold dominion over the Hunter's Dream. Of course, by killing Moon Presence, you actually become the infant Great One.
- The Healing Church: Practitioners of the healing ministration of blood transfusions, using blessed blood (presumably from Queen Yharnam, discovered beneath the city). They have also established contact with the Great Ones. The Celestial Emissary would appear to be a diplomat sent by the Great Ones as a liaison with the Healing Church, hence its presence in the church garden. Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos, would appear to be another "visiting dignitary," so to speak, and once Rom is killed, she sets about trying to revive him at her Altar of Despair in the Upper Cathedral.
- Byrgenwerth: An academy set up in the countryside to study findings from the tombs of the elder gods (the Chalice Dungeons, deep beneath Yharnam). They go mad with occult knowledge and start transforming into monsters. Possibly "ground zero" for the Plague of Beasts (speculation on my part). The game states the Healing Church ordered Byrgenwerth closed and sealed off the surrounding forest, hence the name, "Forbidden Woods." Home now only to cultists such as the snake-men, only church officials who know the password can enter this forsaken place. This why you seek out Vicar Amelia in the Grand Cathedral -- you learn the password at her altar.
- Mensis: A school that split off from Byrgenwerth, presumably upon its closure, to continue establishing contact with the Great Ones. They wear cage-like headwear that keeps the Great Ones from outright shattering their mental faculties. They are still mad, however, and seek to birth the new Great One. It would appear that the abomination called "the One Reborn," descended from the red moon of Moon Presence, is perhaps a botched attempt at this. It would also appear they are abducting sacrificial subjects from Yharnham, whisking them off to their Unseen Village, perhaps to serve as potential surrogates for the infant Great One they are attempting to birth.
This hardly covers everything, but these are some of the concepts as I understand them. Feel free to correct.
OK, good to know. I speculated as much, but it's nice to hear there's direct evidence supporting this in-game.The plague of beasts started at Byrgenwrth. It's revealed in some of the Chant descriptions (Beast, I think?). They thought Blood was good, until they discovered that some Blood could be banned, and the Beast chant was banned.
So is Gehrman working with the Great Ones? Considering that you become an infant Great One after defeating Moon Presence, it seems that that's exactly what it wanted. If you get the "bad" ending, the Moon Presence makes you, in a way, the next Gehrman. I'm guessing at that point, the cycle continues and you wait for another Hunter worthy enough to challenge the Moon Presence. Maybe consuming the umbilical cords makes closer to godhood and without doing so, you can't become a Great One.
Gehrman is bound to the Hunter's Dream, as stated in the item descriptions. If he is working with the Great Ones, he's only doing so because there's no other option for him and that resistance is useless in a dream-world controlled by the Moon Presence. He can't leave but gives you the option to (through death in the dream) as a reward for all the work you did. Refusing the mercy makes him peg you as a power-hungry problem hunter to be hunted.
Yeah I figured as much. He seemed to genuinely wanna help you. Is the secret ending really the true ending? I don't see how anyone would even want that.
So is Gehrman working with the Great Ones? Considering that you become an infant Great One after defeating Moon Presence, it seems that that's exactly what it wanted. If you get the "bad" ending, the Moon Presence makes you, in a way, the next Gehrman. I'm guessing at that point, the cycle continues and you wait for another Hunter worthy enough to challenge the Moon Presence. Maybe consuming the umbilical cords makes closer to godhood and without doing so, you can't become a Great One.
Yeah I figured as much. He seemed to genuinely wanna help you. Is the secret ending really the true ending? I don't see how anyone would even want that.
Yeah I figured as much. He seemed to genuinely wanna help you. Is the secret ending really the true ending?
Hard to say.
I'd add to the whole Gehrman discussion that he says, "It always comes down to the hunters' helper to clean up these sorts of messes" before he fights you, implying that this isn't the first time he's had to kill a hunter bound to the dream who wants power.
There are also grave markers/crucifixes in the arena you fight him in.
Its safe to say that those tall pale humanoids are Pthumerians, right?
So just what did miss crazy clinic lady's experiments create?
Who? The axe guys?
I figured they were mutated Heal Church White Clerics
So just what did miss crazy clinic lady's experiments create?
God I'm nauseous... Have you ever felt this? It's progressing. I can see things... I knew it, I'm different. I'm no beast... I... Oh... God, it feels awful... but, it proves that I'm chosen. Don't you see? How they writhe, writhe inside my head... It's... rather... rapturous...
The lady in the clinic (I never remember how to spell her name) seems to be yet another loon worshipping the Great Ones. They were manipulating her to spawn more of their ilk. For a while, this meant using her to use others, the patients she turned into monsters reminiscent of the Celestial Emissary. I see them as half-breeds -- humans with a bit of the elder gods in them. But in a bit of bleak irony, the lady at the clinic, herself, becomes a vessel for the Great Ones, and is beginning to turn into a monster. If you find her in this state, you can kill her and retrieve One Third of the Umbilical Cord (of which there are actually four in the game -- possibly more).
In some weird way it feels abit like Demon's Souls and Bloodborne share many overarching Story elements. Not that they are exactly the same, but the basic overarching points seem to be the same.
Of course gameplay elements are the same, but I am talking more specific story points.
Just a few that came to mind.
- Beckoned to a place for personal reasons the player is forced to become a hunter/slayer
- Trapped in a place were reality is warped. (In Demon's Souls the very fabric of reality was starting to collapse, as explained by the monumental)
- A terrible cataclysm is brought about by Human curiosity and recklessness
- People are slowly driven mad until they are no more than mindless beasts/Huske of their former selves.
- You go out as a Slayer/Hunter to consume the essence of foes (Beasts/Demons)
- The Old one is looking for a special individual in which to extend it's power with.
^-- Just the first things that came to mind, the more I read other peoples posts and what not.
Pthumerians are clearly the dudes with the bags. They are super tall and hit like a truck. All Pthumerians in the game are tall like those dudes.
Flawless logic, I know.
Arianna was a prostitute, so I would imagine one of her clients was not exactly as human as he appeared...I wonder how Arianna got impregnated. It's like the Great Ones can plant their seed just by looking at you.
Arianna was a prostitute, so I would imagine one of her clients was not exactly as human as he appeared...
It's quite fucked up, all the ways the Great Ones prey on these people who don't know they're there.
That was Zeus, right? And I think it was a swan...Not any worse than turning into a goose and banging someone out.
I'm still elgitimately curious on what was the hunters purpose prior to the plague of beasts.
Hunters predate the Church.
The church is the source of blood healing
Ashen Blood is the source of the Plague of Beasts.
That was Zeus, right? And I think it was a swan...
Personally, swans are hotter than Cthulhus
I had a very Ahn'Quiraj feel to Bloodborne's story, if anyone get's the reference. A city/empire built atop the remnants of a long-forgotten god (or in Bloodborne's case, gods), and overtime the essence/whispers of the gods corrupted that which was built a top of them.
Only that, much like all the Souls games, you are an unwitting pawn rather than a conquering raid hero (ala WoW).
It seems like she can make people into those little blue celestial monsters. How? No idea. Judging from this dialogue, it seems like she's done some experiments on herself too, or at the very least she is in contact with the Great Ones: