Boone Hall Plantation..... I need to vent

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HephalumpsAndWoozles said:
By this logic, the OP should calm his BS down, because why would any white person give the same amount of fuck about slavery as the holocaust?

Oh wait, its because some are capable of looking past the color of ones skin and into their actual plight.

I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?
 
DominoKid said:
FWIW i dont see why its a big deal that the Holocaust doesn't affect him as deeply as slavery. terrible incident indeed, but it has no historical relation to HIM.

I still remember my own visit to the Holocaust museum. It had very little effect on me personally, but I remember a few of my classmates were basically incapacitated by the heaviness of the occasion. Tragedies just dont hit everyone the same.
So then why did he start a thread about how this plantation "had very little effect on [some other people] personally"?

supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?
So what is the point of this thread?
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?

Wow. Nice lack of empathy there.
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?

*blinks*

You don't care about genocide? You're a scary person.
 
xbhaskarx said:
So then why did he start a thread about how this plantation "had very little effect on [some other people] personally"?


I am the thread starter and the Holocaust museum did have a profound effect on me, its one of the reasons I went to Boone Hall in the first place.
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?
You don't care about the systematic extermination of millions of people? Interesting.
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?

Wow... ive read some heartless and ignorant things online before but this.... wow.
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?

How is that "as they should"?
Is your worldview really that ethnocentric?
That we should only strongly care about things that happen to whatever group we consider ourselves belonging to?

That's kinds of fucked and ironically is the type of thinking that could justify slavery for people in the first place.
 
speedline said:
I hate to sound insensitive, but we really do need to move past all these grievances over slavery. No American alive today has been a slave or a slave owner.

meadowrag said:
Moving past things that happened to your culture or ethnic group before you were even born is stupid? Sounds healthy to me.
History: only important as long as the people who experienced it first hand are still alive, after that "move past it"
 
xbhaskarx said:
History: only important as long as the people who experienced it first hand are still alive, after that "move past it"

Alternative: psychologically weigh yourself down with negative emotions directed at people who are long dead and circumstances long outdated.
 
FStop7 said:
The pyramids of Egypt weren't built by slaves, bud.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/pyramids.html
Huh. The more you know!

meadowrag said:
Alternative: psychologically weigh yourself down with negative emotions directed at people who are long dead and circumstances long outdated.
I don't think there is anything outdated in the concepts of slavery or genocide. Both still happen around the world. In fact, even here in the US we have human trafficking, which isn't that far off from slavery.
 
meadowrag said:
Alternative: psychologically weigh yourself down with negative emotions directed at people who are long dead and circumstances long outdated.
Nice false dichotomy you have created there, as if "psychologically weigh yourself down" and "move past it" are the only two options.
 
sooperkool said:
Governments can and will do such a thing... the world over for a lot more mundane reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain
did you even read the article? Or did you just immedietely think of the term and decide to link to it? Typically Eminent domain is used to clear way for highways and railroads, not because some guy on a forum doesn't like the fact that a historical site is privately owned.
 
xbhaskarx said:
So then why did he start a thread about how this plantation "had very little effect on [some other people] personally"?

because he was clearly offended by it. these things matter more to different people. i wouldnt have given two shits about it.
 
xbhaskarx said:
Nice false dichotomy you have created there, as if "psychologically weigh yourself down" and "move past it" are the only two options.

It was my only option after you strawman'd me to hell and back.
 
captive said:
did you even read the article? Or did you just immedietely think of the term and decide to link to it? Typically Eminent domain is used to clear way for highways and railroads, not because some guy on a forum doesn't like the fact that a historical site is privately owned.


Did you read the article? Would you like to see the laws for your state (if you're in one) What it's used for and what it can be used for are NOT equivalent. Try to keep up.
 
HephalumpsAndWoozles said:
What of those mentioned in the OP?

What of them? He mentioned concentration camps generally. Treblinka was an extermination camp and Auschwitz was a network of both types of camps.

Also I didnt know all plantations treated their slaves like they were in concentration camps...

Neither did I. Did someone make this claim?

What point do you think you're making? That it's wrong for OP to compare a site where something bad happened to people who share his ethnic background to another site where bad things happened to another ethnic group, unless the bad things are precisely the same in every aspect?
 
Neuromancer said:
I don't think there is anything outdated in the concepts of slavery or genocide. Both still happen around the world. In fact, even here in the US we have human trafficking, which isn't that far off from slavery.

Sorry, I thought the context of the thread indicated that OP was experiencing strong feelings regarding the historical plantation slavery of blacks, not global slavery or trafficking in general.

I think his general state is justified in that the direct extension of slavery, prejudice, is still rampant, but to make the whole ordeal personal towards people with all the wedding nonsense was just ugh.
 
meadowrag said:
Sorry, I thought the context of the thread indicated that OP was experiencing strong feelings regarding the historical plantation slavery of blacks, not global slavery or trafficking in general.

I think his general state is justified in that the direct extension of slavery, prejudice, is still rampant, but to make the whole ordeal personal towards people with all the wedding nonsense was just ugh.
Oh well yeah, I can't argue with that.
 
I care that people were slaughtered. I'm a cold but not heartless.

I only replied because dude thought is was bad that a black person felt more connection to slavery than the holocaust.
 
sooperkool said:
Did you read the article? Would you like to see the laws for your state (if you're in one) What it's used for and what it can be used for are NOT equivalent. Try to keep up.
yes, i know exactly what eminent domain is. Please tell me, what exactly your justification is?
 
captive said:
yes, i know exactly what eminent domain is. Please tell me, what exactly your justification is?


Well to act on a federal level and not a local or state one the only one that does and should apply is historical relevance and significance or do you feel that it doesn't have any?

I don't really want to have to search Westlaw and start citing cases so lets agree to disagree.
 
I've often wondered if my white southern brothers who are from religious households believe that their religious southern ancestors made it into heaven in light of the twisting of religious texts and systematic dehumanization of millions of people in pursuit of money, or condoning of such practices which was a common thing? After all, they were not likely to have objected to the practices even if they didn't benefit directly.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I've often wondered if my white southern brothers who are from religious households believe that their religious southern ancestors made it into heaven in light of the twisting of religious texts and systematic dehumanization of millions of people in pursuit of money, or condoning of such practices which was a common thing? After all, they were not likely to have objected to the practices even if they didn't benefit directly.

I dunno, did they say sorry right as they died?
 
Slavery and genocide are comparible with regards to human freedom and liberty. Both crush all notion of such in the most absolute ways possible. Nazi labour camps ensured Jewish people and others were worked until their bodies were useless. It was an insustainable model and made purposely so.

American slavery adopted a sustainable model instead that was no less inhuman. Slaves were bred like kennel animals for generations. They were crossed without any thought to the notion of family or upbringing. Strong was bred to strong in hope of creating stronger and the bloodline of those people were altered for all time. Healers, artists, and teachers were not allowed to pass on their knowledge. The healer was to sire an ox, the artist an ox and the teacher, more oxen as well. Entire tribes and people were given over to husbandry and manual labour from childhood to death. It's miraculous that anything from their cultures survived that particular dark age.

To even consider a single life given completely over to the thankless toil of slavery is a challenge to even an imaginative mind. I have learned through experience that to consider the age of slavery and the misery of untold millions is something that the white brain is incapable of fully accepting. Society has created many vents, many safety valves to turn so that none feel too uncomfortable when pondering this history, this reality. Evidence of this permeates the thread. "Why can't we all just move on?"

It seems many you already have, so why ask in the first place? Just leave and be done. It is after all the doom of men that they forget.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I've often wondered if my white southern brothers who are from religious households believe that their religious southern ancestors made it into heaven in light of the twisting of religious texts and systematic dehumanization of millions of people in pursuit of money, or condoning of such practices which was a common thing? After all, they were not likely to have objected to the practices even if they didn't benefit directly.

As long as they asked for forgiveness, they're in "heaven".
 
supabrett said:
I'm sure most jews don't care nowhere near as much about slavery as they do about the holocaust, as they should. Just like I don't care about the holocaust.

So what was the point of your post?

My point with most of my posts in here is the OP (and you) are douchebags and likely pretty racist.
 
HephalumpsAndWoozles said:
My point with most of my posts in here is the OP (and you) are douchebags and likely pretty racist.

oh_you.jpg
 
Enslavement is just as evil as the holocaust. There was not one god damned good, noble, or sympathetic thing about it.

These places are romanticized because the victors write the history books, and that's it.
 
Kitschkraft said:
Enslavement is just as evil as the holocaust. There was not one god damned good, noble, or sympathetic thing about it.

These places are romanticized because the victors write the history books, and that's it.

Umm, what are you getting at? Both the South and the Nazis do have that in common, victors they werent...
 
HephalumpsAndWoozles said:
Umm, what are you getting at? Both the South and the Nazis do have that in common, victors they werent...

The confederacy may have lost the war, but podunk southern trailer trash culture lives on strong.

Jews (Valiantly and justifiably) have kept the true nature of nazism alive in the public consciousness. Their story also ties in strongly to what is the deadliest war in history.

Can't say that anyone has done the same for enslavement, and as Dude Abides just pointed out, the opposite tends to happen quite often.
 
Kitschkraft said:
The confederacy may have lost the war, but podunk southern trailer trash culture lives on strong.

Jews (Valiantly and justifiably) have kept the true nature of nazism alive in the public consciousness. Their story also ties in strongly to what is the deadliest war in history.

Can't say that anyone has done the same for enslavement, and as Dude Abides just pointed out, the opposite tends to happen quite often.

And Pepsi is doing its best to keep it that way.
 
I think the OP's comparison was understandable. Not from the perspective of having a "pain and suffering" measuring contest but from the perspective that they were both places of horrific human suffering.
 
Dyno said:
Slavery and genocide are comparible with regards to human freedom and liberty. Both crush all notion of such in the most absolute ways possible. Nazi labour camps ensured Jewish people and others were worked until their bodies were useless. It was an insustainable model and made purposely so.

American slavery adopted a sustainable model instead that was no less inhuman. Slaves were bred like kennel animals for generations. They were crossed without any thought to the notion of family or upbringing. Strong was bred to strong in hope of creating stronger and the bloodline of those people were altered for all time. Healers, artists, and teachers were not allowed to pass on their knowledge. The healer was to sire an ox, the artist an ox and the teacher, more oxen as well. Entire tribes and people were given over to husbandry and manual labour from childhood to death. It's miraculous that anything from their cultures survived that particular dark age.

To even consider a single life given completely over to the thankless toil of slavery is a challenge to even an imaginative mind. I have learned through experience that to consider the age of slavery and the misery of untold millions is something that the white brain is incapable of fully accepting. Society has created many vents, many safety valves to turn so that none feel too uncomfortable when pondering this history, this reality. Evidence of this permeates the thread. "Why can't we all just move on?"

It seems many you already have, so why ask in the first place? Just leave and be done. It is after all the doom of men that they forget.

Excellent post.
 
Tapiozona said:
I think your comparison of Auschwitz to Boone Hall Plantation is rather silly but to each their own I guess. Its a beautiful setting full of American history, some of which is dark. Looks like the place has taken the high moral ground and created an exhibit on African American History from slavery all the way to current times.

I can't fault people for wanting to get married there. It's a beautiful place and has all the stereotypical charm of a southern mansion. Not everyone has to feel guilty for being white. Some people just want to have a happy moment in a beautiful setting. I don't know. I'm not black so I don't have the same connection so sorry if I'm being cold.
Pretty much this.
 
Kitschkraft said:
The confederacy may have lost the war, but podunk southern trailer trash culture lives on strong.

Jews (Valiantly and justifiably) have kept the true nature of nazism alive in the public consciousness. Their story also ties in strongly to what is the deadliest war in history.

Can't say that anyone has done the same for enslavement, and as Dude Abides just pointed out, the opposite tends to happen quite often.

This is important. As a jew should I boycott volkswagons because they're a product of the nazism? If we assume the enormaty of slavery and holocaust are somewhat on par, than logically if we should boycott/destroy the fruits of one why not do the same to the fruits of the other? If you were to break up volkswagon you would put people out of work, people who have nothing to do with nazism, they're just ordinary germans. On the same token, if you were to burn down the plantation you'd be putting people out of work and causing undue harm to people that have nothing to do with slavery.

I agree it was insensitive to have a wedding there, just as that costume wedding done in the apartheid theme was insensitive, but what needs to be fought against is not racial insensitivity, because stupid people will be stupid and there will always be stupid people. What should be combated is racism.

If someone makes a poorly worded/insensitive remark about the holocaust, i might make a face and coax them to realize why it was insensitive, but I'm not going to get my panties in a twist about it. Neo-nazis, on the other hand deserve all the rancor and attention I can afford them.

Edit: i don't want to be misunderstood about racial insensitivy. I understand that it's a.) real, and b.) can cause real harm to people. It should be frowned upon and education is likely the best way to counter it, I'm just trying to point out that i think OP's reaction to said sensitivity was out of proportion IMO.
 
Shit happens. I think people spend way too much time getting offended over shit they didn't experience.

My ancestors were probably slaves but I don't give two fucks. Slavery was terrible and I understand why. I'd rather spend my time combating institutional racism than getting offended by someone who has.no ties to slavery or endorses it and decides to take a fucking wedding picture because it's a beautiful location.

Also: lol@ hypocritical OP
 
What about castles?

Castles were supported by Serfdom, which was a form of slavery

Serfdom is the status of peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to Manorialism. It was a condition of bondage or modified slavery which developed primarily during the High Middle Ages in Europe and lasted to the mid-19th century

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

The vast majority of white people (from England anyway) are descendants of former serfs.

In 1086 the Domesday Book showed that England comprised 12% freeholders; 35% serfs or villeins: 30% cotters and borders: and 9% slaves


Should we freak out every time we see a castle?
 
also re: the 'white brain' not being able to comprehend the enormity of slavery and white people asking why we can't 'move on'.

This IMO is incredibly racist in two regards. The first and most obvious, is that i'm ascribed some quality or lack thereof based on my skin color. It's simply wrong, given that I am white and have the 'luxury' of being Jewish, so being able to comprehend the enormity of something like slavery has been drilled into my head since birth. Not to mention that I'm actually fewer generations removed from said travesty, my family was also DIRECTLY affected by it (i'm here/in america specifically because of the holocaust). So I think i'm more than capable of appreciating it.

Second, and I think more improtantly, is the false dichotomy of 'moving on' that's being projected on 'white's' when we bring up the discussion. I don't think anyone should forget any of what happened, and as a Jew I would be offended at someone who asked that we forget the holocaust, to remember is the entire point. What i'm talking about is basically forgiving, especially those who just happen to be born of the tragedy, like americans today and germans today, but never forget. This is productive because it allows for fruitfull discussion without blame getting in the way. Racism, just like antisemitism, is the enemy, and to say that white people just 'don't get it' or that a non-jew just won't understand anti-semitism is counter-productive, let alone racist.
 
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