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Boston: One dead, one captured, city re-opened

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Evlar said:
I am not arguing they would not have reacted. I am arguing they would not have reacted this way.

Since I keep getting asked to provide examples as way of proof, perhaps I should respond in kind: What analogous situation proves out that people should expect an entire US metro area to be locked down during a manhunt? When has this happened before?
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It's hard to find similar situations; terrorist attacks are all different and don't really follow a pattern. Previous attackers were better at concealing their identities, or fled the country, or died in the attack or surrendered themselves, or were captured in the act, or just don't react violently when captured because they already committed the crime they wanted to, so it's hard to establish parallels. In this situation the suspects tried to run away and killed a cop in the process so the response is to consider them armed and dangerous, that's why they have a swat team behind them.

But consider the chaos created by the Dorner manhunt. That was handled without the lockdown and meant random people getting threatened in their cars and shot at. Complete chaos. This has been handled way better imho.

If I look back, probably the biggest, similar thing was the Waco standoff, and that wasn't really similar in any other way than they both have a big lockdown on an area with heavily armed forces pointing guns at the suspects.
 
Dude white hat 19 kid isn't caught? I followed most of this then finally went to bed at 10 am EST. Last I heard he was holed up and cops thought a rocket was in the basement. What happended?!
 
bedlamite said:
People actually protesting about their civil rights in a situation like this?

the internet is incredible
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The same people would probably be the first to blame if the suspect used a suicide vest to murder a bunch of people during this man hunt.

This is a terrible situation and I imagine everyone is doing their best to prevent more loss of life and prevent the inconvenience of normal everyday citizens.
 
Downhome said:
I agree with this and I'm the kind of guy who usually would never let a cop into my house just to look around. There's a terrorist potentially strapped with bombs running around their town, it benefits no one to hinder the search.
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This. It's not a case of me hindering my rights, it's a case of me exerting my duty to cooperate with the police.

In times of crisis, we Americans rise up and cooperate. Believe no one loves Freedom more than us, this is a case of protecting the city. Denying the police of their search will just make their work harder, you will just being an asshole and stone in which the police will trip.
 
I'm sorry, if there were a guy who bombed a bunch of folk and maimed and killed many, and he was running about my neighborhood leaving bombs like breadcrumbs, you bet your ass when the cops knock on my door and 'Hey, can we search your place?' I'd be letting them in. If I came home and found my door kicked in, I'd breathe a sigh of relief that at least my house had been cleared.
 
BloodMoney said:
who gives a fuck.

your telling me, you'd tell the swat team to fuck off?

I can see it now:
Swat: "Sir/Lady we need to search your house"
You: "No, you can't search my house. I don't want to aid in the search of a murder/terrorist because i have rights, and you must respect them!!!!! AMERICURRRRR!!!"
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Ok. Because it is "terrorism", the police shouldn't give a fuck about our rights? What if I have things in my house which would connect me to a "crime" or something like that? Maybe there is an illegal emigrant at my place which works for me and doesn't have papers? Just a quick example, but there are very legit reasons to not let the police in without a warrant. "I've got nothing to hide" is very naive. And policians use emotional topics like "terrorism" when they propose laws which reduce our rights.
 
Notrollious said:
Please tell an american citizen about how 'Americans roll' more.

I wasn't saying you shouldn't cooperate. I was saying using "if you have nothing to hide" is a bullshit excuse to allow police to search through your shit.

Let them through to help with the investigation, but don't do it solely based on the fact that you "have nothing to hide"

but go ahead and keep piling on me for making a point.
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No, that is a fair point, that was a very weak argument.
 
Evlar said:
We have. Muhammed and Malvo. Killers with intent to kill again, indiscriminately, free in a major metropolitan area. Weeks after 9/11, no less.
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They gunned down police officers and tossed bombs into a neighborhood? Did you happen to notice how the city wasn't shut down before they did that? They were identified and nothing got locked down until they started killing more people. Is that not clear?
 
Are people actually arguing that their civil liberties are at stake? What the fuck is wrong with you?

They police and feds are trying to catch a person who bombed the Boston Marathon, shot a cop, and left many others with physical and mental trauma. They're also trying to prevent a further waste of life. If you don't voluntarily allow them entrance to your home, you have to be some kind of asshole. Civic Contract and all that.
 
Buddha Beam said:
Reading the Twitter, it kind of makes me wonder if he knew what he was doing at the time. Like maybe his brother was the mastermind and he was unaware there was a bomb in there... but now that he's in shit deep, he thinks there's no going back.

I'm probably wrong, but he just seems so sane and normal, to me.
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If he didn't know there was a bomb, why did he not get his own face blown off? Why did he walk away from the book bag? "Hey bro, mind walking with me with this heavy bookbag with a pressure cooker where you can hear nails and ballbearings rattling around inside it and there's a circuitboard in it too and then leaving it at the marathon and then calming walking away without being surprised if say an explosion happened but don't worry it's not a bomb?"

And then after the bomb went off he immediately said "Welp, I'm hosed, I'll just pretend nothing happened for a few days and not reach out to my loved ones or even leave a hint that there's a crack in my facade and then go on a crime spree and throw grenades at cops"
 
Hawkian said:
That's a terrible way to put it.

You should always care about what your rights are. Sometimes, knowing what your rights are, you should just help the fucking police. They aren't looking to install behavior-monitoring cameras under your light fixtures, they are looking for a criminal.
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I think you've misinterpreted my post. I'm on your side homey.
 
Buddha Beam said:
Reading the Twitter, it kind of makes me wonder if he knew what he was doing at the time. Like maybe his brother was the mastermind and he was unaware there was a bomb in there... but now that he's in shit deep, he thinks there's no going back.

I'm probably wrong, but he just seems so sane and normal, to me.
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His college friends essentially said they couldn't believe he could come up with this plan. They pinned it on his older brother. ::shrugs:: these are guys who played soccer with this kid just 2 Mondays ago.

I'd say he knew about the bombs and somehow is brother convinced him to do it for who knows what reason.
 
dc89 said:
Why wouldn't you co-operate with them? I know I would.
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Because I don't allow strangers in my home. And since this is America, that is enough of a reason (especially since systematically searching multiple blocks does not fall under the hot pursuit doctrine). This search is bordering on martial law and despite the intentions (the road to hell is paved with good intentions), anyone who respects the Fourth Amendment should be wary.

IBhatejustlikePatriotActdefenders
 
Nobody is arguing that the police are storming houses here, it's very likely that they're being allowed in to perform searches by concerned members of the public. That doesn't mean that it's right to argue in favour of the suspension of civil liberties which a lot of people seem totally willing to do.
 
Wthermans said:
Because I don't allow strangers in my home. And since this is America, that is enough of a reason (especially since systematically searching multiple blocks does not fall under the hot pursuit doctrine). This search is bordering on martial law and despite the intentions (the road to hell is paved with good intentions), anyone who respects the Fourth Amendment should be wary.

IBhatejustlikePatriotActdefenders
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Are they not asking permission?
 
Buddha Beam said:
Reading the Twitter, it kind of makes me wonder if he knew what he was doing at the time. Like maybe his brother was the mastermind and he was unaware there was a bomb in there... but now that he's in shit deep, he thinks there's no going back.

I'm probably wrong, but he just seems so sane and normal, to me.
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There is some worrisome stuff in there. It's horribly fascinating reading as a whole, though.
 
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