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Boston: One dead, one captured, city re-opened

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LyleLanley said:
For those interested in donating some money for Jeff Baumans medical bills here's a link:

http://www.gofundme.com/BucksforBauman

For those who don't know he's the man who lost his legs and was apparently the first person to describe one of the terrorists to the FBI.
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Almost $10,000 for gofundme. Fuck! The people who started the fund weren't aware of the 5% off the top that gofundme takes. Understandable with all that's going on. Asked gofundme to please wave the fee and they said "no". Unless there has been an update there are other ways to donate to Jeff.
 
BloodMoney said:
who gives a fuck.

your telling me, you'd tell the swat team to fuck off?

I can see it now:
Swat: "Sir/Lady we need to search your house"
You: "No, you can't search my house. I don't want to aid in the search of a murder/terrorist because i have rights, and you must respect them!!!!! AMERICURRRRR!!!"
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Yeah, rights are worthless when there is somebody bad to catch. Right?
 
Can you guys take the forced entry debate somewhere else please? It gets in the way of new updates.
 
thread is crazy fast, not sure if posted

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https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/325347029826019329
 
BloodMoney said:
who gives a fuck.

your telling me, you'd tell the swat team to fuck off?

I can see it now:
Swat: "Sir/Lady we need to search your house"
You: "No, you can't search my house. I don't want to aid in the search of a murder/terrorist because i have rights, and you must respect them!!!!! AMERICURRRRR!!!"
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MoonsaultSlayer said:
And how would that be "civil" denying a request to aid an investigation?
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...

That is to say...

...
 
strobogo said:
Just curious, did anyone listen to Alex Jones today? I listened to see how he could back track on blaming SEALS and a white dude as a patsy for 2 days. Instead, he doubled down on false flag stuff, criticized the media for saying SEALS could have been involved yesterday, even though HE spent 2 fucking days saying that he believed 110% they were involved, and actually spent most of the show talking about how he and Info Wars are being persecuted. I mean, yeah, he's crazy, but he's actually making this whole thing to be more about him, even going so far as to say things like "people die all the time, why is it only a big deal when someone gets shot or blown up? Why am I bad for being right?"

He barely even covered the events of the over night, but every now and then he'd say it is possible that these two were totally legit terrorists, after spending 3 days in full on FALSE FLAG I HAVE THE DOCUMENTS THE NEW WORLD ORDER SCUM HAVE BEEN OUTED!!! shit. Not that I expect a lot out of him, but he was pretty shameless even for him.
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Has he focused much on the saying Boston was now under a police state and martial law? It wouldn't surprise me if his take away from this is that everyone should have a gun because of how quickly military/FBI mobilized. He'll probably call this a frame job and training exercise.
 
BloodMoney said:
who gives a fuck.

your telling me, you'd tell the swat team to fuck off?

I can see it now:
Swat: "Sir/Lady we need to search your house"
You: "No, you can't search my house. I don't want to aid in the search of a murder/terrorist because i have rights, and you must respect them!!!!! AMERICURRRRR!!!"
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well yes this is a bad trend they should not be able to lock down a whole city and search every home we are fucked now that this took place
 
Notrollious said:
It's amazing how people will curtail their own civil liberties so easily. I mean yeah it is the 'right' thing to do, but you should have the ability to deny entry without any repercussions.
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They are rights and they are Duties. It's withing your rights to deny the police to enter your house searching for the terrorists, but it's your Duty to help the police catch him.

I don't know what country you are from, but this is how Americans rolls.
 
Hollywood Duo said:
Seriously man?
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Yep, seriously.

Any sane person wouldn't have a problem with them doing a sweep to make sure the suspect isn't hiding in their house, and they would be well within their right to think something is up if someone flat out tried to refuse it. I'm not going to keep this going though. It's pretty cut and dry to me in times like this. Every second wasted is a second the suspect could get away. No one should in any way hinder the search.
 
Evlar said:
I am not arguing they would not have reacted. I am arguing they would not have reacted this way. Since I keep getting asked to provide examples as way of proof, perhaps I should respond in kind: What analogous situation proves out that people should expect an entire US metro area to be locked down during a manhunt? When has this happened before?
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I find your assertion that police should not have a dragnet, and should instead only issue APBs -- essentially letting the guy walk free -- to be absolutely astonishing. This is an unprecedented situation. The man has been planting bombs all over residential neighborhoods; he has no qualms killing innocents.

Notrollious said:
It's amazing how people will curtail their own civil liberties so easily. I mean yeah it is the 'right' thing to do, but you should have the ability to deny entry without any repercussions.
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The police aren't my enemy. We're on the same side, and I have nothing to hide.
 
Watching the bomber's college friends talk about the kid is so chilling. He was playing soccer with him 2 Mondays ago...the guy talking mentioned how he was supposed to be playing soccer this past Monday. He called him Wednesday to see where he was because he didn't show up. So weird. He never talked about politics and its really weird to them that he would do this.
 
Evlar said:
Then why are you do completely certain this is the right response? Why did you call me ignorant for not agreeing? What exactly am I ignorant of?
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Equating this event to those previous events you mentioned displayed ignorance regarding this situation. We've never dealt with something like this before so citing a different situation as an argument for why what they're doing now is unnecessary doesn't work.
 
pigeon said:
I think this is an ineffective defense, for the simple reason that there are probably some homes that aren't currently occupied by their owners but being searched anyway. Not being there, they obviously aren't giving consent.

Again, the more appropriate response is that this is a situation of hot pursuit, and it's a longstanding precedent that police may enter a home without a warrant during hot pursuit if they have reason to believe lives may be in danger. There's no constitutional violation, unless you want to quibble over the definition of "hot pursuit" -- but in this case, I think the definition would stand up.

Now, if the police were searching these houses, seizing evidence unrelated to the suspect being pursued, or making arrests based on that evidence, I would certainly mount strong objections to that. But as far as I know, there's no suggestion that that is happening. As long as they're entering houses specifically to find and arrest the armed and dangerous criminal they've been pursuing for the last several hours, I don't see a problem, and neither, I think, would the Supreme Court.
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I was arguing against the idea that these searches are without consent or legitimacy. I haven't heard or seen any evidence to the contrary. I do agree your given standard is a better response, I just based mine on a lack of any evidence showing forced entry against the expressed will of the occupants at home.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
well yes this is a bad trend they should not be able to lock down a whole city and search every home we are fucked now that this took place
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this is a dumb slippery slope argument that is used by nutcases.

"Universal background checks will lead to identifying gun owners and full confiscation!"
 
Yaboosh said:
Yeah, rights are worthless when there is somebody bad to catch. Right?
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Having the ability to exercise your rights is one thing, choosing the appropriate time to exercise them is another. Exercising your rights just because you can without thought to the current situation you're in is not the brightest idea.
 
Downhome said:
Yep, seriously.

Any sane person wouldn't have a problem with them doing a sweep to make sure the suspect isn't hiding in their house, and they would be well within their right to think something is up if someone flat out tried to refuse it. I'm not going to keep this going though. It's pretty cut and dry to me in times like this. Every second wasted is a second the suspect could get away. No one should in any way hinder the search.
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I agree with this and I'm the kind of guy who usually would never let a cop into my house just to look around. There's a terrorist potentially strapped with bombs running around their town, it benefits no one to hinder the search.
 
It makes way more sense to me now that we know they didn't rob anyone. I knew that didn't add up.

It still doesn't explain why they shot the cop though if they really just walked up and shot him as he sat in the car.
 
besada said:
We're pretty sure that the fertilizer factory isn't going to explode again, nor is it going to slink down to Austin, shoot some cops along the way, and escape. One is an industrial accident, while the other is a living, breathing, still potentially dangerous person.
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Fine, but there's many potential terrorists, and with this kind of coverage and idolization, there a chance we will spawn some more.
 
Yaboosh said:
Yeah, rights are worthless when there is somebody bad to catch. Right?
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Have any rights been violated? Has anyone not willfully allowed the police to check their home? If they did refuse, does this fall under the laws regarding hot pursuit, a specific exception to the 4th amendment?
 
bringing up comparisons in "differences in appearances of investigative works" between the OKC Bombing and this one, should not, the internet was much smaller back in 1995. Much harder to get national access to local television channels, police scanners. Add on the stroke of luck of having McVeigh get stopped for a secondary offense.

Having the explosions caught on so many cameras, adds to the craziness of the Boston bombing.
 
BloodMoney said:
My point was there are times to care about what your rights are, and times when you shouldn't care.
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That's a terrible way to put it.

You should always care about what your rights are. Sometimes, knowing what your rights are, you should just help the fucking police. They aren't looking to install behavior-monitoring cameras under your light fixtures, they are looking for a criminal.
 
There's a big difference between SWAT going door to door asking to search your house because they're looking for Jews versus SWAT going door to door asking to search your house because they're looking for a guy who has been setting off bombs and firing fully automatic weapons and shit. You totally have the right to deny them, but that makes you a dick. And they will probably create a perimeter around your house until they get a judge to sign a warrant anyway.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Have any rights been violated? Has anyone not willfully allowed the police to check their home? If they did refuse, does this fall under the laws regarding hot pursuit, a specific exception to the 4th amendment?
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I could see this not falling under hot pursuit. Though it may. I am not a supreme court justice.
 
Winterfang said:
They are rights and they are Duties. It's withing your rights to deny the police to enter your house searching for the terrorists, but it's your Duty to help the police catch him.

I don't know what country you are from, but this is how Americans rolls.
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Please tell an american citizen about how 'Americans roll' more.

I wasn't saying you shouldn't cooperate. I was saying using "if you have nothing to hide" is a bullshit excuse to allow police to search through your shit.

Let them through to help with the investigation, but don't do it solely based on the fact that you "have nothing to hide"

but go ahead and keep piling on me for making a point.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Equating this event to those previous events you mentioned displayed ignorance regarding this situation. We've never dealt with something like this before so citing a different situation as an argument for why what they're doing now is unnecessary doesn't work.
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We have. Muhammed and Malvo. Killers with intent to kill again, indiscriminately, free in a major metropolitan area. Weeks after 9/11, no less.
 
I don't think this house to house search thing would go down as smoothly in a southern state.

It's on very shaky grounds IMO. I feel mixed about it.
 
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