Did Adam Lanza have political or social objectives? At least one of these guys probably did
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Boston: One dead, one captured, city re-opened
- Thread starter Joel Was Right
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Key word.
Yeah, I think that's the barometer normal people tend to use. Tim McVeigh, for instance, has gone down in history as a terrorist. So I don't think it's a question of race for most.
What is Jared Loughner considered by most people? I don't know, I'm just interested.
Edit: I think in most peoples minds it is bomb versus gun. Bomb = terrorist, gun = psycho.
A psychopath. Mostly due to his mentality and facial expressions.
Pretty much. His attack was vaguely political, but he didn't seem to have any real agenda besides hating government and Giffords in particular.
I think the connection between bomb = terrorist is just that bombs imply a higher degree of planning and forethought, and this in turn implies that the attack is meant to send a focused message.
Lol I'm just imagining the amount of detail that would have to go into the hoax. Jeff Bauman's family, family of the Iraq victim, hollywood makeup artists, Obama, photographers, doctors. Not to mention if you fake that all the other victims have to be in on it.
You mean you missed the part where the curtain went up right after the bomb went off, giving them the hours and hours needed to properly get everyone into costume?
The Wanderer
Banned
With this type of thinking your mentality is not much better than the type of people who commit these atrocities with a complete disregard for human life.
In my opinion, that is the issue here. Disregard for humanity. So when you fantasise about sadistic shit like this, you're just furthering the issue.
Meh... I don't personally feel we're better off as a society killing anyone, but lets be honest - if this kid did in fact blow up and maim innocent people, then what are we truly gaining by keeping him locked in solitary prison for life?
Officerrob
Banned
I kinda think that miniscule chance went out the window when they lobbed a pressure cooker bomb and other explosives at police officers. That would be quite the coincidence: we didn't actually set off the bombs at the marathon, we were just RIGHT THERE, shown on video dropping a bag in the same spot, and threw a similar bomb at police officers while in a massive shootout trying to evade arrest a few days later.
The Wanderer
Banned
Obi Wan?
I don't think we can look at the police shootout as inescapable proof, when it's the least documented of all the incidents. For now, we just have to take eyewitnesses at their word regarding what happened and who did what. Obviously Tamerlan was there, but we can't say from what we currently know that Dzhokhar absolutely was.
Do understand that I'm only arguing in favor of due process, and questioning whether we should hold ourselves to the same high standards as does the law.
Just another case of police anticipating the worst possibility and thankfully being wrong (my guess).
Monocle
Member
Actually it's kind of important to try to uphold a consistent set of values if we want to keep acting like we're a civilized society. The concept of fundamental human rights is a fragile construct that we puncture as soon as we treat any individual as subhuman. Either people have fundamental rights or they don't. Once we establish a baseline for recognizing human dignity we can't transgress it without denying the same rights to ourselves.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
haha I missed this bit in the crazyness
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-details/index.html
sounds like the younger idiot straight up killed the older idiot.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-details/index.html
sounds like the younger idiot straight up killed the older idiot.
I have to wonder if Tamerlan told his brother, "Don't let them take me alive."
Yep. Perhaps it was intentional since his brother was not riddled with bullets like apparently he intended to be.
Naked Snake
Member
The movie script basically writes itself.
Ok first brother was shot, now he was run over, and now he can't speak... Wheres all the evidence of them having bombs strapped to them? them throwing explosives out the car?
How many times you gonna change the story USA? Just like what happened when Osama was killed.
Can someone also tell me how for sure we know it was these guys? Do we just take the governments word for it?
Why didn't they just leave the country after the bombings? They had a good few days.
Not necessarily saying whats being said is wrong or right, just questions people need to be asking....
How many times you gonna change the story USA? Just like what happened when Osama was killed.
Can someone also tell me how for sure we know it was these guys? Do we just take the governments word for it?
Why didn't they just leave the country after the bombings? They had a good few days.
Not necessarily saying whats being said is wrong or right, just questions people need to be asking....
Maybe actually read the news and try to understand what you're reading before complaining about it and posting your conspiracy gibberish? You're expecting them to get the facts straight, but you can't even properly process the information you're given.
Clairvoyance
Member
The fuck are you even talking about?
Answer your own questions by following up on all that you missed instead of filling the blanks with conspiracy theories because reasons.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You should hang out with kobashi100.
FBI, FBI, zero, because it is, yes, because they're idiots.
Good Job Bob
Member
Yes, questions will be asked and evidence will be raised during the trial.
Naked Snake
Member
Him being unable to speak matches with what they said on the news when he was in the boat. They said they brought up a specialist to negotiate his surrender but he did not respond, and I kept wondering why was it taking so long. I guess after he kept silent for a prolonged time they decided to go in and arrest him.
Macho Madness
Member
Look here's a good way to figure out why the story isn't "straight". Read through this entire thread and the last big bombing thread and laugh about how big a circus it was when it happened. Nobody knew what was going on. At a point people were convinced it was a missing student from Brown university who ended up completely unrelated to any of it. There is so much incorrect information pushed out from news outlets, twitter, forums, and elsewhere that it's almost impossible to reconstruct a straight story from any one place. That's not the government's doing. Not that you should necessarily trust them. It's not some sinister secret. Dzhokhar (the younger brother) is now in the hospital with leg and neck wounds. Whether he can talk was speculated about from a few sources but I don't think confirmed for certain yet.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Let's be real. The truth is out there. He is a half dolphin half human hybrid trained by the Reptilians, funded by the Rothschilds and backed by black ops CIA operatives. He is undergoing major reconstructive surgery as we speak and we'll hear in a few days how he escaped just barely and vanished. The real truth is he found a star gate built by the royal family in underground Boston; his next mission is to setup a colony on Mars.
Don't believe me? It's all there man. Black and white. Hollywood rules the world. DISNEY is involved in black magick.
Not really.
Really though, I just can't stand these conspiracy theory reaches every time a tragedy happens. Sometimes it makes sense to question but now we're at a point that everything is some bullshit. People are beyond paranoid. Lots of projection going on.
We followed this story for two days without even sleeping, listening to police scanners and digesting every bit of news that came our way. Not to dissuade you from questioning the government's word, but there is literally nothing we witnessed that should point toward any significant mishandling or cover-up.
There's a ludicrous amount of circumstantial evidence pointing toward these two, and I'm sure the authorities have collected plenty more that hasn't yet been shared because it contributes to the case they're building. There are pictures of them leaving their backpacks exactly 2 1/2 minutes before the bombs exploded, eyewitnesses who noticed and identified the suspects dropping said backpacks and walking away, pictures of the suspects calmly leaving the scene, eyewitnesses testifying that the suspects admitted their crimes to them, possible evidence of motive through social media websites, the shootout that was documented to occur as suspect #2 was being apprehended, etc.....The suspects likely didn't leave the country because they were fucking crazy and thought they would get away with it.
There's asking questions and then there's speaking in defiance of a large body of facts.
captainnapalm
Member
I must say my ears pricked up a bit when I heard that once again the perpetrators had had previous contact with some kind of US law enforcement agency, in this case the FBI.
So I assume when this happened in Boston, the FBI would have been going through their 'suspected terrorists in Boston' rolodex immediately and investigated these guys? Or did it take days for them to show up on captured footage for the FBI to have another look at these brothers?
And if you have the FBI on your case already, how could you so brazenly commit an act like this and then go about your business in Boston in the days immediately following the bombing? Did they really think that the heat wouldn't come down on them? Considering they were as reckless as walking about with massive backpacks and planting the bombs right in the thick of the marathon action?
It is, you have to admit, all a bit strange.
So I assume when this happened in Boston, the FBI would have been going through their 'suspected terrorists in Boston' rolodex immediately and investigated these guys? Or did it take days for them to show up on captured footage for the FBI to have another look at these brothers?
And if you have the FBI on your case already, how could you so brazenly commit an act like this and then go about your business in Boston in the days immediately following the bombing? Did they really think that the heat wouldn't come down on them? Considering they were as reckless as walking about with massive backpacks and planting the bombs right in the thick of the marathon action?
It is, you have to admit, all a bit strange.
No, that is not strange at all
think that the older brother was denied citizenship right before the marathon might have been the final straw that broke the camels back (his sanity)
Put yourself in the mind of someone who might commit such crimes in the first place. Can you even actually do that, as a normal person? They're deluded individuals who can't be expected to think logically. And supposing that their crime was religiously motivated, they may have believed that their actions were just and their god would protect them.
Besides, there is evidence that they were planning to flee. The older brother went to his auto mechanic and demanded his Mercedes returned to him, despite it being half-finished with parts missing.
And the FBI probably has a giant list of Boston citizens with possible terror connections. Rather than tracking them down one by one, they studied the footage and drew up the most likely suspects. Certainly there were agents culling through this giant list, but it's probably much faster to narrow it down to who they knew was there.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
This has happened a thousand times before, and not just in America. After the Madrid train bombings it came to light that some of the perps had been investigated before. Nothing came out of it at that time, so they let them go. Three years later, 191 people died.
Wackos are both brazen and dumb like that. And it's not like the authorities have the muscle to put under survelliance every religious fanatic and criminal out there.
captainnapalm
Member
Well, it certainly speaks to massive levels of incompetence on both the parts of the bombers and you'd have to say the FBI. You'd certainly have expected these guys to be on file and to be investigated within the first 24 hours of this happening, if not sooner. And the FBI apparently denied having had contact with these brothers at first.
Maybe this is what the movies miss. How stupid all the players are in these kinds of incidents.
Maybe this is what the movies miss. How stupid all the players are in these kinds of incidents.
The authorities handled this case expertly. To claim otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to how the events unfolded. To determine the likely suspects within 24 hours is extremely unlikely in such a situation. To have them in custody within a week is also extremely uncommon, but that's what they did.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
America hosts thousands of potential bombers. Organised crime, Christian extremists, Islamists, far right wackos , mentally unstable persons... and you can bet your ass those two were not the only ones at Boston that day.
The FBI is also not omnipotent. They had a lot of work to do: collecting evidence, interviewing witnessess, coordinating with the local police, checking feeds... It's almost a miracle they were able to catch them this fast.
If anything, the fact that they had investigated the older brother two years ago and found nothing suspicious lowered his priority. I imagine that they had thousands, if not tens of thousands, potential suspects and started going through them immediately. How quickly do you think they should have identified the suspects based on the very poor quality initial photos for it not be considered "massive incompetence"? In real life things take time; you should try living there.
captainnapalm
Member
Well, I'm not so sure. They hardly come across as two geniuses. Having your car in the shop at a time you're planning a getaway following a major terrorist attack, for example. Or robbing a 7/11. Or knowing the FBI is already aware of you and doing it anyway. These are the actions of Darwin awards candidates.
I never claimed the suspects demonstrated any sort of cunning. Also, bringing up that they robbed a 7/11 shows how little you've followed the events, because that's not what happened. It was an early report by the media that has since been debunked. They entered a gas station at one point and were seen by security cameras. They also hijacked a car outside of the gas station.
This may come as news to you, but people committing these acts usually don't care about the consequences
captainnapalm
Member
Do you really think there are thousands of people in Boston who have been or are currently flagged as potential terrorists?
If there are, fair enough, you have a point.
I think that's a totally reasonable guess. Not to mention the numerous other high-population areas within a stone's throw of Boston.
All along the smart ones here have been rightfully preaching reticence. We've mostly complied. Then the CTers come along with limited knowledge of the case and start trying to poke holes in a narrative that we acknowledge is still incomplete. But, again, nothing we've witnessed points to any sort of cover-up or conspiracy.
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