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Boxing: Floyd Mayweather vs. Victor Ortiz |OT| 9/17
- Thread starter TheNatural
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polyh3dron
Banned
Had that 4th round continued I would have scored it 2-2harSon said:
Ninja Scooter
Member
Blackface said:
He agreed after Floyd told his camp to fuck off and pulled the deal off the table. All just posturing for the media, it's what both sides are doing. Why would either of them want to rush to fight when they can just beat up on cans and make huge pay days for the next 12-18 months. Then they can eventually fight when that starts to dry up, and even if its when both are past their primes like Holyfield/Tyson or Lewis/Tyson, people will still pay up to see the fight. Neither of these sides gives a shit about the sport they just want to get paid as much as possible. They are maximizing their earnings.
polyh3dron said:
Are you dense? Not only was Ortiz deducted a point for headbutting, but Mayweather was landing combo after combo on Ortiz in the round. Ortiz's best (and only) flurry of the match came prior to the intentional headbutt, but outside of that, the round was all Mayweather.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Baby Milo said:
Power plays a factor too. Ortiz's punches were harder.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Baby Milo said:
One man's power punch != another man's power punch.
Edit - It's well known that Floyd isn't the strongest hitter in the world.
Floyd obviously outlands Victor. Difference is it only takes one punch to change the fight. Victor has power in both hands. In that fourth round before the headbutt Victor caught Floyd with his signature right hook and had him on the ropes. I didn't have Victor winning any of those rounds but it would've been interesting to see what happens as the fight went on.
betty swollocks
Banned
harSon said:
'They'?
That was one boxer bitching about anothers style... And it's not like he was ripping him apart. He clearly went on to say how well Mayweather was doing this fight and how exciting he was.
Why you so defensive about this? jus' sayin...
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Baby Milo said:
Typical of a Mayweather supporter to run to the scorecard. Mayweather was indeed winning on points but if Ortiz kept on landing his power punches, the fight would have been much more interesting than any of Mayweather's recent fights. I don't think Ortiz could have won but I do think he could have knocked Mayweather down to the canvas at least once.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Larry Merchant deserves all the shit he gets.Devolution said:
SlipperySlope
Banned
Baby Milo said:
HAAHHAHAH. The amount of damage done always plays a factor in the scorecards, and it would have been interesting if the fight went longer. Ortiz got his bearings back and was pummeling Floyd before the headbutt.
If you land less, but your punches are far more effective and you hurt the other guy more (not saying Ortiz did this enough to win rounds, but he was starting to get more active), then you win the round barring point withdrawals/knockdowns. That's just the way it works. This isn't fucking Karate.
Punch stats don't tell the whole story.
Jamesfrom818 said:
I doubt it, if there is one thing Mayweather is awesome at is adapting to his opponent. Go back to the Mosley fight where he got rocked in round 2 of that fight. Mayweather was in trouble, shook it off, and cruised the rest of the fight. What makes you think he wouldn't have done the same thing with Ortiz.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
zatara said:
Mosley is old.
soundahfekz
Member
Jamesfrom818 said:
What the fuck else are you supposed to run? That's like saying Allen Iverson should've had a better career than Tim Duncan because he had a mean crossover that the crowd loved. When that shit counts as a W, let us all know.
Competition is about winning, not flash. Mayweather has done that better then any boxer in this current generation. That's an objective truth.
SlipperySlope said:
You must have been watching one of those choppy internet feeds cause Mayweather was dodging 95% of punches thrown at him. I wonder how much attention some of you actually pay to the sport besides big fights when you're in complete denial of objective stats.
Kitschkraft
Member
LMAO!SlipperySlope said:
Do people think that straight rights are weak punches or something?
SlipperySlope
Banned
zatara said:
Oh and that's another thing. Pacquiao beats the same fighters that Floyd fights, but beats them better. Manny demolishes them. Floyd got in trouble with Mosley, but Manny just destroyed Mosley. There was never any doubt. Pacquiao-Mosley was a joke in how lopsided it was, as Mosley himself said after the fight. Pacquiao hurt him much more than Floyd.
Not sure how you give the 4th to Ortiz. Before he threw the headbutt - which he probably did out of frustration that he'd been whiffing so many times - Mayweather was just teeing off on him at will. Ortiz wasn't doing anything to stop Mayweather's right hand the entire fight to that point. The KO was bound to come sooner or later. Shitty/hilarious the way the KO did come up, but oh well.
SlipperySlope
Banned
zatara said:
Well, just listen to the people who have fought both. All say that Manny is tougher. Their word is better than yours.
And I am not trolling.
Onion_Relish
Member
As a sports fan, this really cements to me just how irrelevant the sweet science is in the modern sports ecosystem. I love boxing and the fight was decent but it used to be that boxing just had shitty judges; now it has both shitty judges and shitty fighters. After seeing this I would be in favour of making all boxing events "olympic" (Read: padded helmets). Let boxing be about agility, precision and power, not about naive fighters who try to give hugs instead of protecting themselves at all times like they agree to do at the beginning of the fight.
At least in MMA people are more likely to get knocked the fuck out or submitted, thus eliminating the crappy judge aspect.
At least in MMA people are more likely to get knocked the fuck out or submitted, thus eliminating the crappy judge aspect.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So Victors eye got like that all by itself? I swear some of you sound like the only other boxing matches you've seen were in Rocky movies.smurfx said:
IC_Champion
Member
Had Ortiz not headbutted Mayweather and started to constantly apologize, and keep his hands up (he was too sentimental; that was his downfall) the fight would have continued and possibly Mayweather would have won by Decision. However, Joe Cortez was looking somewhere else and Ortiz was waiting for the ref to give him instructions as per the rule, Mayweather just came in and did a cheap KO. Did Mayweather win the bout? Yes. But I wouldn't call it a KO victory. The thing between Mayweather and Merchant was that Merchant was trying to say that even though Floyd was leading, he was going to finish his question of why did Mayweather go for a quickie, instead of waiting for things to calm down in the situation. That's when Floyd stopped him and went on his tirade. Sure, fans and non fans will talk about the headbutt that lead to this, but they will and have talked about more is the surprise "KO" and the verbal war between commentator and athlete.
Floyd is good at manipulating the ring and tends to bend the refs rules when the referee himself in unaware of it. For Cortez's part, he made a refereeing rookie mistake: he took his eyes off the fighters and did not call time, I don't care what anyone says different. He clearly saw Ortiz fall after two shot and counted right away, he did not tell Floyd to return to his corner. Joe Cortez should have separated the boxers for a second and resumed.
Floyd is a phenomenal boxer, but he is not a great fighter. This man made a career of out-boxing and defending and only relied on points and decisions. That is why I don't view his bout with Ortiz as a knockout; it was just an opportunity that he saw and took it. The fans at the arena agreed and the commentators as well.
I admire Floyd Mayweather Jr. the boxer, but as a human being, I hate him. the man has a huge ego, and will you respond positively towards you if you appeal to his vanity. Say what you will about his charities and Team Money, but these are things that just make him look good. The instant that he views somebody that doesn't agree with him, or makes him money, he's going to fire that person on his team. Mayweather is a bore. Now, I will be the first to jump on the Floyd Mayweather Jr. bandwagon if he drops this Money May persona and stops acting like a douche. I will take back everything I said bad about him to his face. But, I doubt that will ever happen. Until that time comes, I will continue to bash on him more.
So, in closing: Yes, Ortiz deserved that loss because he simply was not focusing and let his cheery attitude get the best of him. What I do not condone however, is Mayweather's lack of respect towards others and trying to manipulate things to his liking.
Floyd is good at manipulating the ring and tends to bend the refs rules when the referee himself in unaware of it. For Cortez's part, he made a refereeing rookie mistake: he took his eyes off the fighters and did not call time, I don't care what anyone says different. He clearly saw Ortiz fall after two shot and counted right away, he did not tell Floyd to return to his corner. Joe Cortez should have separated the boxers for a second and resumed.
Floyd is a phenomenal boxer, but he is not a great fighter. This man made a career of out-boxing and defending and only relied on points and decisions. That is why I don't view his bout with Ortiz as a knockout; it was just an opportunity that he saw and took it. The fans at the arena agreed and the commentators as well.
I admire Floyd Mayweather Jr. the boxer, but as a human being, I hate him. the man has a huge ego, and will you respond positively towards you if you appeal to his vanity. Say what you will about his charities and Team Money, but these are things that just make him look good. The instant that he views somebody that doesn't agree with him, or makes him money, he's going to fire that person on his team. Mayweather is a bore. Now, I will be the first to jump on the Floyd Mayweather Jr. bandwagon if he drops this Money May persona and stops acting like a douche. I will take back everything I said bad about him to his face. But, I doubt that will ever happen. Until that time comes, I will continue to bash on him more.
So, in closing: Yes, Ortiz deserved that loss because he simply was not focusing and let his cheery attitude get the best of him. What I do not condone however, is Mayweather's lack of respect towards others and trying to manipulate things to his liking.
Angry Fork
Member
For boxing aficionados (i don't know much about the sport but did watch it sometimes when I was younger) how come huge heavyweights like Tyson, Foreman etc. aren't around anymore? How come media has gravitated more towards the leaner/athletic looking guys? I find that kind of boring I much prefer when you've got raging animal motherfuckers in the ring.
Tyson was so exciting he always looked like he wanted to murder his opponent, you can feel the mind games in the ring and the blows (both hits and misses) were so much fun to watch. Now it seems like it's all about scorecards and jabs for 30 minutes. Are there any guys around that have that kind of do or die mentality? Not necessarily trying to win just because they can make a lot of money but just because he wants to beat the shit out of something.
Tyson was so exciting he always looked like he wanted to murder his opponent, you can feel the mind games in the ring and the blows (both hits and misses) were so much fun to watch. Now it seems like it's all about scorecards and jabs for 30 minutes. Are there any guys around that have that kind of do or die mentality? Not necessarily trying to win just because they can make a lot of money but just because he wants to beat the shit out of something.
IC_Champion
Member
Boogybro said:
True. I mean Shane had a good thing going for him as a managing partner for Golden Boy. He knew that he could not get a fight with Pacquiao because his "lawsuit" towards GB for defamation is still pending. there was no way that GB would co-promote that match. What does Mosley do? He quits and makes his own promotion.
Angry Fork
a couple of reasons: 1. there are no more boxer like Tyson and Foreman in that category, and the current heavyweights are slow. 2. The lower weight divisions offer more in terms of durability, speed and performance.
Angry Fork
Member
How come there aren't anymore like that? Younger up and comers are encouraged to stay in the lower weight divisions?Gamebaron said:
Angry Fork said:
great athletes with a lot of size are increasingly going to different sports and almost never choosing boxing, leading to a talent famine in the heavyweight division.
For smaller athletes with a lot of talent, boxing is more viable than some other sports financially, making the average talent level higher in those divisions.
Basically, there are only a few really talented heavyweights right now.
polyh3dron
Banned
Sergio MartinezAngry Fork said:
Brandon Rios
Marcos Maidana
Andre Berto
Victor Ortiz
Yuriorkis Gamboa
Manny Pacquiao
Carl Froch
Amir Khan
All guys who have the do or die mentality IMO.
As for the heavyweight division, you can blame its shittiness on the Klitschko bros. Also, most of the athletic big guys are going into MMA these days. Guys like Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos.
EDIT: and yes the big guys are going into basketball and football more so as well.
That Singer Guy...
Member
Lol at people still bashing Floyd in this thread and trying to score that 4th round in Ortiz favor after he lost a point...LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
It became clear to me last night that most of the people in this thread know nothing about boxing, so I can't say i'm surprised.
It became clear to me last night that most of the people in this thread know nothing about boxing, so I can't say i'm surprised.
The American heavyweight is dead and gone, most of the guys that fit the body type for the new age heavyweight (6"4+ 230lbs+) are steered towards basketball and football.Angry Fork said:
The last type of heavyweight that fit the bill for what you are looking for is Ike Ibeabuchi, 6"2 236lbs, ridiculous work rate, granite chin and animal in the ring and out, so of course his career was cut short and he's in prison.
polyh3dron
Banned
What I should have said was that I was scoring that round for Ortiz until the headbutt.
Kitschkraft
Member
smurfx said:
Is there no nuance between a ko punch and a pitty patty punch? The straight right is his best punch, the left hook is probably his most powerful but he doesn't rely on it much, regardless, with all the actual evidence, the most reasonable theory about this fight is that Floyd was going to continue to tee-off on Ortiz's head with the same punches you see in those gifs I posted. Only difference is that they would become more frequent throughout the fight as Ortiz eventually tired and Floyd continued to gain more confidence that he could land at will. Sure, tackling Floyd into a corner looks nice, and fighters do deserve some credit for pace setting and ring generalship, but "one punch theory" is a weak argument for a fighter, everyone has that. And it works both ways, how do we know that Floyd wasn't about to unleash one of these? :
Speaking of Hatton, I feel like Khan is walking into a similar beating. Talented fighter moving up in weight to take the money, against a fighter who is bigger, stronger, faster, and a better boxer. I understand why he wants the fight and I'd definitely like to see it, but I'd expect it to be closer to Mayweather/Hatton then Mayweather/DLH.
Edit : Floyd would have a career day with these guys.
polyh3dron
Banned
If you want to see skilled heavyweights slugging it out, not only is there the UFC heavyweight championship free to watch on Fox in a couple months (November 12th), but there's also K-1 kickboxing. The K-1 World Grand Prix Final 16 is on October 29th and has some great heavyweights going at it. It'll most likely be televised live on HDNet.
Angry Fork
Member
Yea I see what you guys mean. Kind of disappointing though at least for me. When I see this I'm like oh man I'm about to see some real shit can't wait:
But when I see this I'm like ...ehhhh:
I wish that 'american heavyweight' shit came back. I'm not too interested in stuff like MMA either because within 10 seconds it turns into a grapple-thon on the floor and you just wait until one of them inevitably taps out. I could see people liking the speed and endurance of the skinnier guys more and that's fine but if you're heavyweight + have speed + endurance etc. then that just makes it so much more interesting to me.
But when I see this I'm like ...ehhhh:
I wish that 'american heavyweight' shit came back. I'm not too interested in stuff like MMA either because within 10 seconds it turns into a grapple-thon on the floor and you just wait until one of them inevitably taps out. I could see people liking the speed and endurance of the skinnier guys more and that's fine but if you're heavyweight + have speed + endurance etc. then that just makes it so much more interesting to me.
Ninja Scooter
Member
any great young american athlete with the size to be a heavyweight is pushed to football these days. Much greater chance of "making it" and making millions of dollars.
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