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[Chairman Yang]

I also love this game and consider it one of my favourites of 2008, but solely for the gameplay, controls, and graphics. I honestly do appreciate the obvious effort that went into the artistic merit of the story, and I hope other games follow suit, but it felt like pretentious, unnecessarily obfuscated wankery all the same.

I also appreciate the ruthlessness with which Jonathan Blow trimmed the fat. He came up with brilliant time mechanics that could have supported entire games individually (and in fact have supported entire games individually--see Sands of Time) but included only the best puzzles and didn't repeat anything.

 

[abstract alien]

it's really "draw your own conclusion" kind of thing...which is great because not enough games do that (many of my favorite books and movies do.)


gosh, unless I've totally missed something and Jonathan Blow confirmed that it's about that...it seems like people are convinced it's the correct explanation.

Completely agree.

 

[KTallguy]

I also love this game and consider it one of my favourites of 2008, but solely for the gameplay, controls, and graphics. I honestly do appreciate the obvious effort that went into the artistic merit of the story, and I hope other games follow suit, but it felt like pretentious, unnecessarily obfuscated wankery all the same.

I also appreciate the ruthlessness with which Jonathan Blow trimmed the fat. He came up with brilliant time mechanics that could have supported entire games individually (and in fact have supported entire games individually--see Sands of Time) but included only the best puzzles and didn't repeat anything.

I agree that the story has some wankery about it.
Did you feel that way because of the text presentation? The writing style?
Do you enjoy any games with story?

(These are honest questions, just seeking your opinion.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I agree that the story has some wankery about it.
Did you feel that way because of the text presentation? The writing style?
Do you enjoy any games with story?

(These are honest questions, just seeking your opinion.

I actually didn't mind the presentation, I just found the content didn't merit the obscurity it was intentionally veiled under. Generally I think that almost any story worth telling deserves to be told clearly; Braid definitely didn't do that.

I definitely enjoy games with story. Most of my favourite games of all time are quite story-heavy (Alpha Centauri, Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, etc.)

 

[alistairw]

Jon hasn't confirmed anything. And much as I think the bomb story fits well within everything, it's not the story I found in the game.

 

[Draft]

Is there a story? Because I couldn't run past those damn books fast enough.

Braid stands up just fine as a game without getting bogged down in some ridiculous metaphorical narrative. Sometimes a princess is just a princess.

 

[alistairw]

Is there a story? Because I couldn't run past those damn books fast enough.

Braid stands up just fine as a game without getting bogged down in some ridiculous metaphorical narrative. Sometimes a princess is just a princess.

And this is one of the game's strengths - the story doesn't matter unless you make it matter. Walking past the books is totally valid.

 

[Draft]

And this is one of the game's strengths - the story doesn't matter unless you make it matter. Walking past the books is totally valid.

I agree. I'm exaggerating, because I did read the books, I just thought they were stupid. But I was still totally captivated with the whole like feel of the look and the music and the little talking dinosaur. It created a story for me.

 

[HurricaneJesus]

All the text in the game is probably equal to half a page in a book, so anyone who didn't stop to read it is just plain lazy.

 

[KTallguy]

And this is one of the game's strengths - the story doesn't matter unless you make it matter. Walking past the books is totally valid.

This is true and one thing that is excellent about the story.
But I also agree with Yang, that any story worth being told should be told clearly.

The question is, how far does the creator push their story on the player?
Can the creator coax the player to pay attention to the story if it isn't shoved down their throat through cutscenes?

I guess that depends on the contents of the story.

I like games with good narrative and story, but I hate forcing the player to sit and watch it. Segments should be as interactive as possible, but with player freedom standard narratives break apart, as the creator cannot set the tone for the scene if the player is standing on top of a table humping it as exposition is going on (half life 2).

Such a difficult problem.

 

[Mamesj]

Gonna have to disagree about stories needing to be told clearly. There's plenty of room for ambiguity in any kind of narrative...intentionally placed ambiguity can be very rewarding for someone who chooses to give thought to it.

I dunno, just like a puzzle in Braid, over-thinking it means you'll be stuck forever, but when you look at what you are given to work with and stop trying things that are impossible within those limitations, you'll find things are clearer than they appear....or something :lol hope that makes a lick of sense, just my personal opinion.

 

[KTallguy]

And then of course, there are stories that depend on lack of clarity. Anything with an unreliable narrator, for example (think The Usual Suspects).

But even with this movie, and all the confusion throughout, the MAIN POINT is still obvious to anyone who watches the movie.

 

[alistairw]

Personally, I feel the mood set up by the books in Braid is more important than the interpretation of them. Some of the stuff about relationships - Tim saying things that only a soul mate should say, but not really meaning it - affected me pretty deeply. I'll take that over a thousand boy-becomes-world-hero stories any day.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Definitely agreed. Many stories can benefit from little bits of ambiguity. I'm not sure that an entirely straightforward story would even be all that interesting.

And then of course, there are stories that depend on lack of clarity. Anything with an unreliable narrator, for example (think The Usual Suspects).

Clarity and ambiguity aren't really opposed to each other. For example, an ending could happen with a character's fate deliberately left unknown. The writing could be clear while still being ambiguous. Same thing with the unreliable narrator or similar devices. The Usual Suspects was a pretty clear movie despite not being a straightforward story. Same with something like Memento.

 

[Nachkebia]

A Web Site for the New Game
August 3rd, 2009
There’s a teaser site up for the new game:

The Witness http://the-witness.net/

… along with a scant bit of information. The game is very visual, and once we have developed those visuals to the point where they are representative, I’ll start posting them there.

In the meantime, it seemed like a good idea to let people know a little about the game. Even if it’s not much.

http://braid-game.com/news/

ZOMG!!1!!1

 

[idlewild_]

ZOMG!!1!!1

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370250

 

[Nachkebia]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370250

Thank you

 

[Snaku]

Got it through Steam's weekend deal, and I have to say it's straight up pissing me the fuck off. I cannot figure out even the most basic puzzle in this game. Normally I love games like this, buy my brain just isn't grasping the rules and logic behind some of this crap. Maybe I'm too tired to be playing something like this after working all day.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Got it through Steam's weekend deal, and I have to say it's straight up pissing me the fuck off. I cannot figure out even the most basic puzzle in this game. Normally I love games like this, buy my brain just isn't grasping the rules and logic behind some of this crap. Maybe I'm too tired to be playing something like this after working all day.

At first it confused me as well, I left a lot of pieces in some worlds, just keep going forward if you get stuck on some particular piece, when you get a better grasp of the mechanics and the possibilities, return to these pieces and the bulb will light up and you will see a path that it wasn't there before.

It's hard enough to be challenging but no fustrating (except for one piece, I had to look out the solution for that one :lol )

 

[bernardobri]

Quoting myself from another thread.

Amazing game so far, too bad I suck hard resolving jigsaws...

I think I haven't finished the game yet (therefore completing the jigsaws must be key in order to get the story as a whole, right?) The words of the dinosaur in the world 6 made me wonder a very dense twist on the story.

In the gameplay departament, flawless. Though I expected more platforming, but the puzzle solving is really well appreciated.

tl;dr = I think I should have paid more for the game

 

[ephemeral garbage]

tl;dr = I think I should have paid more for the game

You can rebuy it on multiple platforms if you really do feel that way =)

 

[bounchfx]

Bought it this weekend, beat it today.

Holy fuck. such a well made game. Definitely worth triple the price, at least.
I don't really enjoy solving puzzles like this (too much thinking!), but it was really fun, and the art was gorgeous. I'm not a fan of how the main character or main enemy looks (the small guys you bounce off of), but the rest of it is stellar, as is the music.
I'd give it an A easily. Feel bad for not getting it earlier.

 

[bernardobri]

You can rebuy it on multiple platforms if you really do feel that way =)

Yeap, I think I will get the PS3 version day one.

 

[shuyin_]

Playing Braid right now. At first i figured it's a Mario-like platformer and i thought i made a mistake getting it (i hate platformers). However, it turns out it's actually an adventure game in disguise.
If point and click adventures would someday evolve (getting rid of the genre's trademarks like inventory, dialogue trees, pixel hunting for hotspots) into something, my guess is it'd be something similar to Braid: an adventure game at its core (revolving around the concept of solving puzzles without requiring any kind of skill or reflexes) dressed in the clothes of a different genre.

I completed world 2 (got all the puzzle pieces and solved the jigsaw puzzle) and i'm starting to like it despite a bad first impression (thanks to not understanding the gameplay behind it and thinking it was just another platformer).

 

[Nachkebia]

IGN giving 8.5/10 is so pathetic, Presentation 8.5 ? are you fucking serious? :lol

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/104/1045347p1.html

 

[rainking187]

I just picked this up on Steam (my first purchase as a new Steam member) and I need to know if I've already fucked myself. I know you can't get the star in the house if you put together the world three puzzle, but can you get it if you put together the world two puzzle? I was using the two ledge parts of the puzzles trying to get across to a puzzle piece and they connected. I looked at a video and it showed the ledges being used like a ladder to reach the star. Should I just start over now, or is there still a way to reach it?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

You can use the World 2 puzzle as a ladder even after it's completed yes.

... I think that's what you are asking.

 

[Chip N Chance]

I have a problem. Basically the game wont let me pass worlds 2 and 3 (the first two paintings). Ive solved the paintings 100% on each, but now no other room will light up except the bathroom. Its the full game, and not the trial. I have the achievements, and nowhere does it say "unlock full game". Any help would really be appreciated.

 

[TheBothersomeMan]

I picked this up during the Steam Christmas sale and have really enjoyed this so far but I have to say, as someone who rarely plays puzzle games, there doesn't seem much incentive for completion. Avoiding spoilers where possible could anyone shine any light on what is gained by completing puzzles, etc?

 

[RiskyChris]

I picked this up during the Steam Christmas sale and have really enjoyed this so far but I have to say, as someone who rarely plays puzzle games, there doesn't seem much incentive for completion. Avoiding spoilers where possible could anyone shine any light on what is gained by completing puzzles, etc?

The xbox prints out a college degree.

 

[Always-honest]

just been playing this game on PSN (lasted forever untill it was on PAL PSN..)


wow... what a mindfuck.. how on earth did these devs come up with some of these levels?
Well done.. and i'm only in world 4....

brilliant

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Bumping the official thread, since I finally beat the game.

Man, talk about HARD. I had to use youtube to solve 3 puzzles. I guess three isn't that bad. Two of the puzzles I didn't know you could use your head to bump those things, and the other one I wasn't aware you could rewind everything while Tim stays put on those platforms that glow green.

So i'm guessing as far as the plot goes,

Spoiler

Tim blew up the world just to find the princess or something like that?

P.S. Long live 2D games. Braid was the most intense game I've played in many years.

 

[Always-honest]

just finished the game yesterday.

fucking brilliant!!!!!! WOW. well done devs!! All GAffers should play this game!!

There were two puzzles (one in world 5 and one in world 6) where i had to continue the day after and try many many times. Especially the one in world 6 made my head explode...

Spoiler

the two ladders and the two moving platfporms. i tried things that were way more complicated than needed...

. In the end.. it was more simple than i thought, but very hard to find out.

but i did it and i'm fucking PROUD as a motherfucker that i finished the game all by myself.

However, i have NO idea what the story is all about.. but i didn't really try hard to understand it either..

Spoiler

is he the bad guy?

 

[Yagharek]

I have no idea where the bomb theory comes from. It seems to me like someone has just found out a way to make that theory fit, and then massaged that idea to refine the first guess?

I personally thought that the story was just a love story

Spoiler

gone wrong

 

[Inkwell]

just finished the game yesterday.

fucking brilliant!!!!!! WOW. well done devs!! All GAffers should play this game!!

There were two puzzles (one in world 5 and one in world 6) where i had to continue the day after and try many many times. Especially the one in world 6 made my head explode...

Spoiler

the two ladders and the two moving platfporms. i tried things that were way more complicated than needed...

. In the end.. it was more simple than i thought, but very hard to find out.

but i did it and i'm fucking PROUD as a motherfucker that i finished the game all by myself.

However, i have NO idea what the story is all about.. but i didn't really try hard to understand it either..

Spoiler

is he the bad guy?

Now you have to collect all of the hidden stars.

I have no idea where the bomb theory comes from. It seems to me like someone has just found out a way to make that theory fit, and then massaged that idea to refine the first guess?

I personally thought that the story was just a love story

Spoiler

gone wrong

It fits fairly well, actually. Everything is laid out and explained here. That's not to say that there is none of that love story you're talking about. I think the implications of the story are much more broad than the love story or atomic bomb. I think it speaks to how people can be so determined and stubborn as to focus on a specific goal, regardless if it is harmful to oneself or others. Going through the trouble of collecting those stars adds to this once you see some of the things you have to do, as well as what happens when you finally get them all.

 

[SmokyDave]

I have no idea where the bomb theory comes from. It seems to me like someone has just found out a way to make that theory fit, and then massaged that idea to refine the first guess?

I personally thought that the story was just a love story

Spoiler

gone wrong

Isn't the quote "Now we are all sons of bitches" in Braid?

 

[Yagharek]

Thanks to the last two people for the reply. I have read that analysis of the atom bomb allegory back when it came out on xbla. I dont agree with it, but I see the commonalities.

It fits fairly well, actually. Everything is laid out and explained here. That's not to say that there is none of that love story you're talking about. I think the implications of the story are much more broad than the love story or atomic bomb. I think it speaks to how people can be so determined and stubborn as to focus on a specific goal, regardless if it is harmful to oneself or others. Going through the trouble of collecting those stars adds to this once you see some of the things you have to do, as well as what happens when you finally get them all.

Maybe the story is simply about regret?

 

[ArjanN]

I have no idea where the bomb theory comes from. It seems to me like someone has just found out a way to make that theory fit, and then massaged that idea to refine the first guess?

I personally thought that the story was just a love story

Spoiler

gone wrong

Nah, the bomb thing is pretty obvious once you realize it's there. It's more of an extra layer to the story compared to the love story angle though.

 

[Vexidus]

Maybe the story is simply about regret?

Regret has to come hand in hand with making the nuclear bomb. The sheer implications of the destructive capability and thinking about how the world could destroy itself with irresponsible use of the technology.

J. Robert Oppenheimer regretted the development of the bomb because it crossed a line that made knowledge and science too dangerous to be allowed to be shared freely. With one invention, scientific advancement had to be controlled, censored and monitored. A dark day for any true man of science.

After you fit all this together, the second playthrough is amazing because you can start to spot all of the subtle clues given throughout.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

The line in the game about rewinding time and learning from your mistakes will make you a better person was pretty spot as far as the plot goes. Sadly, no matter how many times Tim tried learning from mistakes, he kept on failing.

 

[milkyjay20]

if i ever meet the creator of this game on the road, i'll kill the son of a bitch

 

[Tim-E]

if i ever meet the creator of this game on the road, i'll kill the son of a bitch

"How dare you make one of the best games of the generation, you bastard?!"

 

[Lord Error]

Isn't the quote "Now we are all sons of bitches" in Braid?

It is, however I took all the atom bomb references as an allegory for a destroyed/nuked relationship, as a result of too much analytical thinking, searching for something 'better' without realizing you had it all along, or trying to improve it, without realizing you're just going to ruin it.

 

[Yagharek]

Regret has to come hand in hand with making the nuclear bomb. The sheer implications of the destructive capability and thinking about how the world could destroy itself with irresponsible use of the technology.

J. Robert Oppenheimer regretted the development of the bomb because it crossed a line that made knowledge and science too dangerous to be allowed to be shared freely. With one invention, scientific advancement had to be controlled, censored and monitored. A dark day for any true man of science.

After you fit all this together, the second playthrough is amazing because you can start to spot all of the subtle clues given throughout.

Fair point. I have only played through once and to be honest, I didnt see the similarities until it was analysed on various forums including this one. I was blown away enough as it was with the last level revelation, and my impressions of what its about is led mainly by the tone of the game (melancholy vibe - lends weight to my impression that it is about regret broadly speaking, not just specifically).

If the atom bomb story is true (I wont argue it 'fits', but until the writer confirms it I wont concede that its the only possibility) then I guess successive play throughs will emphasise that.

We can all agree its a fantastic title though.

 

[Vexidus]

We can all agree its a fantastic title though.

Yeah, and one of my favourite things about this game is the fact that the story is so open to interpretation. Everyone can derive their own meaning from it, either based on things other people have theorized or their own ideas.

Incredible game and experience, in any case! It's one of those titles that I know I'll be replaying yearly for a long, long time.

 

[Always-honest]

Now you have to collect all of the hidden stars.

.

wut?


by the way.. for a second there (while playing the game) i thought the game was about drug addiction...

 

[HurricaneJesus]

Fair point. I have only played through once and to be honest, I didnt see the similarities until it was analysed on various forums including this one. I was blown away enough as it was with the last level revelation, and my impressions of what its about is led mainly by the tone of the game (melancholy vibe - lends weight to my impression that it is about regret broadly speaking, not just specifically).

If the atom bomb story is true (I wont argue it 'fits', but until the writer confirms it I wont concede that its the only possibility) then I guess successive play throughs will emphasise that.

We can all agree its a fantastic title though.

If you get all the stars then the bomb theory makes more sense. I personally think it is about many different things, all woven together.

 

[Jasoco]

For some reason recently I fell back in love with Braid. But since I don't have my Xbox I can't play it. So I wanted to buy it for my Mac. I thought I'd try Steam, but for some reason it wouldn't even let me download the demo to see how well it was going to perform on my computer. (I mean, every world has a lot of stuff happening at once and the graphics aren't exactly static. They're constantly moving.) It kept giving me "Server is busy" errors and the Mac Steam client is acting like shit. So I Googled and found the demo on Apple.com. Downloaded and ran it and it plays amazingly. So I want to buy it.

Is there any reason I should buy it from Steam, or should I just buy it through the playgreenhouse.com site that the game sends you to when you quit the demo? Is the Steam version going to be any different? I mean I downloaded Steam just for Portal, then forgot to buy that Indie pack in time and missed out.

Also, the music is still amazing to this day. I've been listening to the soundtrack a lot in the past few days.

Also, for some reason it looks more amazing on my MacBook's screen than it does on my 32" HDTV and Xbox 360.

 

[Magnus]

I don't know why I put off getting this game for so long.

Nabbed it for 800 points just now, and it's immensely pleasing to take in. What a charming audio-visual experience, haha.

But man....is it normal to have no clue how to get over half the puzzle pieces at first? Does one acquire more abilities later on?

Is it actually possible to get every puzzle piece as you first encounter it?

I feel completely retarded.

 

[sublime085]

I don't know why I put off getting this game for so long.

Nabbed it for 800 points just now, and it's immensely pleasing to take in. What a charming audio-visual experience, haha.

But man....is it normal to have no clue how to get over half the puzzle pieces at first? Does one acquire more abilities later on?

Is it actually possible to get every puzzle piece as you first encounter it?

I feel completely retarded.

I think there is only one piece that requires you to get other pieces, and that is in the first level.