EU has to be hard on the UK because it's a game of advantages. Whoever gets the upper hand sets catastrophic consequences for the other, a good exit deal for UK means EU is in trouble and vice versa so it's all a game of chess for UK to posture all the support it can get both in terms of committed investment and trade arrangements with other countries
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Brexit: May Set to Defy EU by Opening Pre-Brexit Trade Talks With Others
- Thread starter AHA-Lambda
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Ether_Snake
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Trump will give her a favorable deal to fuel the other potential Euroxits.
QuicheFontaine
Member
So it's back to what I said, blame David Cameron personally for that. It's not within anyone else's power to stop him resigning.
That's the whitest attempt at the run the jewels pose ever
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I'm not pro brexit at all but I always thought the interpretation of this law as meaning 'you can't talk to other countries about trade while in the EU' was utter bullshit.
All it says is that you can't sign the deal, which obviously you wouldn't without leaving anyway.
All it says is that you can't sign the deal, which obviously you wouldn't without leaving anyway.
That is what recent reports say. You can't formally ratify anything whilst members of the EU.
Not sure how the EU would be the communication police with anything else, countries talk about stuff all the time.
TatteredHat
Member
Just get out already, god damn.
Monocle
Member
That gold is so fucking tacky. When will these dingalings realize they're not projecting affluence, they're cheapening its symbols?
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Mass_Pincup
Banned
Then why not trigger Article 50 as soon as possible?
We pretty much are.
From what I've read, there is extensive preparatory work that needed to take place before we could.
michaelius
Banned
Smart on UK part - it's much better to have contingency plan like this than wholly rely on EU goodwill to get good deal and then be left with nothing when it turns out that soviet like thinking EU commission wants to make example to scare other countries.
I actually think a trade deal with the US would be problematic for the UK. There's a large number of US businesses who use the UK as their gateway to Europe alongside accessing the large UK market.
If I'm one of those businesses and UK/US deal gives me free access to the UK, and the UK/EU deal doesn't give UK based subsidiaries similar access into EU then I'm servicing the UK market from the US via the new deal and setting up the satellite operation in the EU.
And that's before we get into all the really problematic stuff with any US led trade deal typically has.
If I'm one of those businesses and UK/US deal gives me free access to the UK, and the UK/EU deal doesn't give UK based subsidiaries similar access into EU then I'm servicing the UK market from the US via the new deal and setting up the satellite operation in the EU.
And that's before we get into all the really problematic stuff with any US led trade deal typically has.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
May was named as Cameron's successor in July, still more than 4 months out to the legal challenge. In the face of Cameron's resignation there had to be an apparatus to take over his duties in the government as well.
Unless the british government just stopped working for a couple weeks.
Unrelated but these talks don't seem unreasonable can't really expect the UK to not hold talks until they are already out.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I really can't believe that you're upset about a four month "delay" here. That's really nothing in the grand scheme of things. And again it's not like the current government has pushed the date back that it set: May's first announcement on taking office was that it would be early 2017 and she's been working towards that goal ever since. Again, where is the bad faith?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Today's homework will be to define the meaning of the word Soviet and correlate it to the duties and working policies of the European Commission.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's not the delay by itself it's the combination of posturing UK officials while dallying to actually trigger article 50 that's tiresome.
QuicheFontaine
Member
You know why May said "it'll be early 2017" as soon as she became PM? Maybe it was because she expected problems like the legal challenge. To me that seems like a sensible thing to do, and points towards dealing in good faith. It's certainly better than if she said she would do it before Christmas and then had to push the date back, right?
Ok, my last comment on this: if triggering Art. 50 does not occur in March, I will have some sympathy for your point of view. However if it does happen in March, I would describe that as happening "pretty quickly" after the referendum results came in.
ReplacementPelican
Member
I can't blame the cabinet for being hesitant about this though, they've essentially got a loaded gun aimed at the economy's head and they don't want to pull the trigger before they at least have some notion, some idea of what's actually happening or what their plan is.
It's not posturing, they're trying to be responsible with an irresponsible decision.
RedSparrows
Member
Sure, for which Cameron has to take a massive share of the blame. No preparatory work, no planning, not even a few civil servants in a room somewhere to come up with an outline of what we might have to do if leave won.
I think Cameron will go down in history as one of the worst PM's since Lord North, to be honest.
Edit: Grrh, misread. The posturing of UK officials is also pretty tiring, yeah. Everytime Boris opens his mouth to make another WW2 reference I lose some brain cells. Feckless idiot.
xcharles718
Member
Not sure if I follow. Under EU treaty rules, any trade agreement, in effect, can't be finalized or signed by anyone other than EU itself. In theory, May (AFTER the UK has completed its exit of the EU), when attempting to conclude/sign whatever deal they made earlier, Trump can, well...
Not sure why the EU would be attempting to get concession from a member state leaving its union.
andythinkpad
Member
EU just to argue this is "illegal" is just dumb. UK has to look out for themselves.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Yep. And I absolutely despise the lot of them. Even the leftist in me thinks it's incredibly shortsighted because "international capitalism is bad". The EU is, and has been, WAY more nuanced than that. This shit guarantees a huge amount of actionable rights for people and small businesses.
michaelius
Banned
EU commision is a bunch of not elected officials thinking they have right to dictate how countries and people should behave. That's soviet like mentality because they don't have any democratic mandate.
andythinkpad
Member
EU:"You can't see anybody until the divorce is finalized. It says on the paper! "
Aunt May:*rolleyes*
Aunt May:*rolleyes*
If we were looking out for ourselves we wouldn't trigger article 50.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Ding-ding!
ClosingADoor
Member
EU to not argue about this being "illegal" is just dumb. EU has to look out for themselves.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the EU commission is made up by commissars from member states appointed by the respective acting government, which in turn was democratically elected. I do not see how they don't have a democratic mandate.
Expectancies was on an immediate or very timely triggering of article 50. Cameron promised to do so before the election, the populace knowing that still went ahead and voted for leaving the European Union.
Yup, pure daily mail drivel in the post beforehand. Everyone in the EU is voted on and elected on by the EU government, which is elected by all member states! It's insane.
I meant, May and Trump are meeting probably to discuss that. officially or not (specially with Trump) they will talk about a trade agreement. So, UK will be dealing with the exit of the EU and, as I understand, there are those 'exit negotiation' which I guess mean both sides need to agree to some terms on how the exit will be completed. So, if UK-USA have an agreement (not signed yet, but already discussed), the UK might want to leave the EU faster (otherwise they cant have any other agreements), which gives EU more leverage to demand more in the exit negotiations.
This just dont make sense in case there is nothing to discuss/negotiate between EU-UK, but from what I read they do have to agree to some terms before the exit is final.
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